DE DE - Georgetown, Fem Cranium UP6275, 20-33, in city dump, Sep'64

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by CarlK90245, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I saw this NamUs casefile with several photos of the unidentified victim's cranium. I took a shot at trying to depict how she might have looked in life. There are a lot of unknowns here, and this is an attempt to show facial shape and not her overall look. There was no hair or clothing found, so I gave her a hairstyle and clothing typical of the late 1950's. Of course, since the mandible was not found, you should not rely on the chin and jawline, but it appears to me from the tightly arched alignment of the upper teeth, that there was significant narrowing of her facial outline from her jaws to her mouth.

    But what I can see from the shape of the cranium, she had a roundish face with wide-set eyes that had a backward slant (i.e., downward toward the ears). The narrow nasal aperature indicates that her nose was not broad at the bottom. and from the profile, it doesn't look like her nose protuded unsually.


    NamUs UP # 6275 https://identifyus.org/cases/6275

    [​IMG]


    Unidentified White Female (Cranium Only - No Mandible)

    Located on September 06, 1964 at the Georgetown DE city dump on Route 319, Georgetown (Sussex County) Delaware.
    * Estimated Date of Death - Years prior - as far back as 1950.

    Vital Statistics
    * Estimated age: 20 - 33 years old.

    Circumstances of death
    While rummaging through a Georgetown, DE dump for bicycle parts, two teenage boys found a human skull near a pile of burned trash. Note: Law Enforcement officers, Medical Examiners and Coroners system user please refer to "circumstances" in police section for details.
     
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  3. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I was looking at this skull in comparison to Mabel May Chambers, and thought she had a very similarly round and wide head shape. However, I tried doing an overlay of the skull to her photo, and see that the tops of her eye sockets don’t rise as high, and her upper teeth sit a little higher.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chambers_mabel.html
     
  4. jessunlil

    jessunlil MOO

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  5. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Looks pretty close, but I was not able to get good alignment when trying to overlay the skull over her photo. The vertical spacing of her facial features are off.

    In Joan's photo, she is not facing perfectly forward. Her head is turned very slightly to her right, so I can't get a perfectly comparable overlay to check the horizontal dimensions. But that difference doesn't affect the vertical comparison.
     
  6. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    Mabel May Chambers I feel is a very good match.I tried to email NamUs with this match about 2 to 3 weeks ago.I never heard back from them.I was actually looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been and stumbled on this match by accident.
     
  7. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    I just looked at when I sent it.It says 7 days ago.I'm sorry.
     
  8. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hal says that he has an old MP case of a woman from Georgetown that he has not yet published in NamUs, and coincidentally, the family was at his office today to provide DNA samples.

    He says that he needs to get the local PD to generate a MP report before he can publish the NamUs casefile on her.
     
  9. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    May I please ask was the old missing persons case from Georgetown ever listed anywhere?I'm still looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been too.
     
  10. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    AFAIK, she has not been listed anywhere.
     
  11. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    Ok,Thank you.
     
  12. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I see something that stands out on both Mabels right ( our left ) temple area and the same area of the skull. I can't tell if it is swelling from a bump, or a fatty tissue tumor on Mables temple and maybe a post mortem fracture on the skull. But it stands out to me -as the mom of a post helmuted child dx'd with severe plagiocephaly.

    Maybe I am seeing more into this.. so have to ask. For all I know it could be a post mortem crack...

    I'm really not sure how the overlays might work with or coincide with anyone who has a skull anomaly and partial remains.
     
  13. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's an illustration of my overlay, showing why I doubt that this is Mabel:

    [​IMG]

    I have rotated both images to straight-up orientation, re-sized them to comparable size, and aligned the transparency of the skull so that the eyes and columella of the nose are positioned appropriately. With the photos anchored at those three points, the other key facial features don't align.

    As noted on the image, Mabel has a taller forehead, and more vertically condensed features from the orbits (i.e., eye sockets), to the teeth. A person's eyebrows should be positioned above the orbits, but they are within the orbits in this case.

    There doesn't appear to be an inordinate forward or backward tilt in either image, so there shouldn't be a problem with incomparable camera angles.
     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's a new case that Hal Brown put into NamUs.

    Johanna Atalia Gersina De Haas
    [​IMG]

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12580/0

    It isn't necessarily a Delaware case. She is thought to have come to the U.S. from Amsterdam, and it isn't clear where in the U.S. she went.

    However, she does resemble the recon that I did for this UID.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  15. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    May I please ask.Do you know where and when(what date?) in 1957?Where did she give up her child at?she gave birth to her litle girl and if she had any other children.
     
  16. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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  17. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's the translation from Dutch to English:

     
  18. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much.I was getting a headache reading it in dutch LOL.I have NO idea what I was reading.I found this too.I don't know what it says either.It wouldn't translate for me.

    http://www.weespernieuws.nl/getpdf/2008/wn09jan08.pdf
     
  19. Lera213

    Lera213 New Member

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    I know the chief of police in GT, De. if that helps with anything let me know.
     
  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Google Translator doesn't do that great of a job going from Dutch to English. However, I got the gist of the story that her daughter, who was given up for adoption at infancy, is now in search of her, and one case in particular that has their attention is the Annandale VA Jane Doe who committed suicide in 1996 in a children's cemetery.

    VA VA - Annandale - White Female 245UFVA, 60, Dec 1996 - "NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin"
     
  21. madamx

    madamx Well-Known Member

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    Carl this is amazing and I love and appreciate how you explained everything you look at on the skull to get a persons face and bring it to life! Amazing and thank you

     

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