Dead Folks and Decomp *WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS IN OPENING POST*#2

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by Tulessa, Dec 22, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tulessa

    Tulessa Active Member

    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Warning, Pictures included! Not for the faint of heart!

    I wanted to start this thread because several people had asked me about it. My power has been off for 4 days, just got a generator, so if this needs to be moved? Mods feel free to do so. We can use this as a reference thread when discussing the case.

    Dead Folks and Decay



    Bodies do not always decompose uniformly or in the same way. A corpse might be partially skeletonized, partially mummified, and partially converted to adipocere. Adipocere looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    This photo is of two child victims in the famous Hoptoun Quarry Murders Case investigated by Sir Sydney Alfred Smith. Read the full story HERE.



    http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/#comment-534
     
  2. Loading...


  3. QB.

    QB. New Member

    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You might want to add a warning to the thread title, I was not expecting that photo of the dead children.
     
  4. Tulessa

    Tulessa Active Member

    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Done and thank you.:)
     
  5. QB.

    QB. New Member

    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm a tad squeemish, and its Christmas.
    But interesting post.
     
  6. Tulessa

    Tulessa Active Member

    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Nauseated me when I first read it too. :(
     
  7. Mumsy

    Mumsy New Member

    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you Tulessa for this very interesting and informative information. It may be considered "gruesome" or even "over the top" to some people but when we are considering the ins and outs of murder it is part and parcel of the sleuthing process. I was not aware that a single body could degrade in 3 different methods. And to realize that a "skeletonized" body would not look like the typical skeleton from our school lab days was interesting. I think there is definitely a place for this kind of information in such a forum as Websleuths so long as there is sufficient "warnings" for those faint of heart.
     
  8. Jolynna

    Jolynna Active Member

    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    A question from the site: Could bacon grease wiped onto a napkin be mistaken for adipocere?

    Answer:
    D.P. Lyle, MD said, on October 3, 2009 at 6:07 am
    Visually they might appear similar but the lab would have no trouble distinguishing one from the other.
     
  9. MyTinkieGirl

    MyTinkieGirl New Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi, J...thanks for info...didn't read the article, but it is EXACTLY true to differentiate the two....even if from grease wiped from a broiler pan from steaks, etc. When food is cooked, a variety of chemical reactions occur between the fat, protein and carbohydrates in the meat....won't bore you with details...but, a whole bunch of additional totally different chemicals would have been found on the paper towels. An example is IF, not that you'd WANT to do it, you chew on raw bacon or a steak or chicken, there's not too much flavor at all. All the flavors occur during cooking and a good amount leach out into the fat left over...basically why bacon fat from the pan is saved for GREAT flavor as opposed to using just plain lard.

    PS...many of these same rxns occur during toasting of bread...that's why toast tastes diff from just plain bread....and turns brown...sorry for O/T

    ETA : If you want to know about the molecules flying and chemical bonds breaking and forming and getting rid of H2O, etc....best to go see the resident Chemistry wiz, DogMom2JoeAndWillie...LOL
     
  10. doogiesgirl

    doogiesgirl New Member

    Messages:
    2,379
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Even though this subject and the pictures are gruesome, I do want to know what stage Caylee's body was in say one day after her death, and then 3 days, 7 days, etc. I want to know how KC last saw her child. moo
     
  11. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    48


    <snipped> ...your power has been off for 4 days...you bring up the subject of the rate of body decomposition...

    WHAT EXACTLY IS IN YOUR FREEZER!!! :runaway:




    (kidding...kidding)
     
  12. Tulessa

    Tulessa Active Member

    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    My freezer is fine lol. We have a Generator but only hooked it up to my pc today.
     
  13. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

    Messages:
    21,160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I noticed that some of the posters have no idea how fast a small child's body would decompose in the Florida heat. Some thinking KC carried Caylee around for 10 days or more. This is very important information when you have to consider all when the body was placed and whether or not the body had ever been moved.

    If the body was in the trunk for 2.6 days, what stages of decomp would the body have gone through? It is possible the body was left in the trunk for 2 days because it was in a state of rigor which made it difficult for her to remove.

    This will be covered in court I would imagine.
     
  14. Just Jayla

    Just Jayla New Member

    Messages:
    3,198
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So the same for any of those little fatty peices that fall out of salami-While the fatty acid make-up in salami and adipoce is similar, there are, I am sure, big differences microscopically and chemically. Someone in another thread pointed this out to me, makes sense that there are similarities but big differences.
    Oranges and lemons both have citric acid, but they are not the same and can probably be seperated on the cellular and chemical level.
     
  15. MyTinkieGirl

    MyTinkieGirl New Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  16. MyTinkieGirl

    MyTinkieGirl New Member

    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi, again....I read the blog questions/answers...I was taking the "bacon grease" on the paper towels question to mean like the grease wiped out of the frying pan AFTER cooking...that's what my reply was addressing....not just the actual "grease" meaning the fat BEFORE cooking....if thats what the poster was questioning in the blog....again, as the Dr. mentioned, even before cooking, the "grease" is composed of more than the linoleic/linolenic/butyric, which, IIRC, that was what was ID'd on the towels (plus the cannabis, etc)....reg "bacon fat" (lard) is mostly palmitic, stearic, oleic, not much linoleic.....although NO butyric, which smells like sour puke, would be present.
     
  17. MADJGNLAW

    MADJGNLAW New Member

    Messages:
    5,526
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First I would like to thank Tulessa for starting this thread.
    As ill as it makes me feel to know about these things, well...this is what happens when someone passes/murdered.

    :waitasec:I am not sure if I am thinking of another case, but didn't one of the Forensic Doc's talk about adipocere ?

    I find that Putrefaction & The third method of alteration by adipocere formation could both be possible in Caylee's case. What I find interesting is that with " Alteration by Adipocere Formation", the bodies that were found were aroun 18 months old and in the water.
    I snipped this bit from the article:In the The Hopetoun Quarry Murders
    The bodies had been in the water at least 18 months.


    The first method: Putrefaction - Bacterial growth is enhanced in warm and moist environments.

    The end result of putrefaction is a skeleton. Given the proper conditions and enough time, all the tissues of the body will be consumed by the putrefaction process and only the bones will remain.

    ALL the tissues decay, including ligaments and tendons that hold the bones together, which means that a completely skeletonized body will simply be a pile of bones.




    The third method of alteration is by adipocere formation, which is the result of a chemical process called saponification.

    Bacteria such as Clostridia perfringens, the bacterium that causes gas gangrene, convert body fat into oleic, stearic, and palmitic acids, the primary constitutes of adipocere.

    This most often occurs in bodies found in water or warm, damp areas and usually takes several months to form so that adipocere formation is a broad indicator of time of death.
    Bodies do not always decompose uniformly or in the same way. A corpse might be partially skeletonized, partially mummified, and partially converted to adipocere.

    Read more at link: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...:official&sa=X&um=1&ei=aEwMSuCIB6Co8gTcjIWqAw
     
  18. PassTheMotrin

    PassTheMotrin New Member

    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting reading, isn't it? You know when you can read this stuff while eating lunch, you've become pretty desensitized. :)
     
  19. Mumsy

    Mumsy New Member

    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think what this information gives us is a better understanding of just what this precious little girl went thru from the time of the taping of her head and the finding of her remains. It was not one tidy step from her death to the finding of her remains, but a series of horrific stages that none of us really want to know about. But, now we know and we will never forget. I am sure it will remain in our heads and hearts forever. I also think that this information and GRAPHIC ILLUSTRATIONS OF EACH STEP should be presented to KC in court........and I would pay to be in that courtroom!
     
  20. Tulessa

    Tulessa Active Member

    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    THANK YOU! Maybe all of us together can pull the pieces together.
     
  21. cloud9

    cloud9 New Member

    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Tulessa :)

    Thank you for posting this! As for the photo, while I understand it can upset some, I've seen much worse so it doesn't upset me at all. The information is very interesting.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice