Discussion in 'Deaths of Male College Students/The River Killers' started by SeriouslySearching, Jun 23, 2008.
Please continue here:
I have to get caught up on things here, but from the looks of the previous page...we are no closer than we were before.
Unfortunately I agree. It seems that it is taking some posters most of their available time on here correcting facts that were uncovered early on and verified. I find this counter-productive and frankly have not spent much time here as a result. There are a slew of posters on this thread that spend an exhaustive amount of time checking their facts and uncovering new possibilities, I just would like to see their work both more respected, and in short, want to help, and their objective is to solve these cases and give families answers. If that is not someones goal I would question why they are on here.
Fran, RR, DD, SuzQ, SS, Agigi,DS, VG, V3,LB,Shadow, Roxye, and whoever I forgot and will undoubtedly need to recognize following "submit" I hope you realize that your work for this guys is important and it matters and to hang in. Sorry for the rant, this matters, imho.
We need to get things back on track here and figure out the missing pieces. Since D & G aren't giving us much to work with, we need to avoid the tangents and try to keep the facts straight. Speculation is one thing, but going down the wrong paths over and over will not lead anywhere.
This is a thought, and a bit aggressive as I am going on vacay in 3 days, but, what if we took the "smelliest" cases, reviewed for the "unanswered questions" portions and rate by hinky factor.. Then start the process of linking them WITHOUT the graffiti, perhaps just focusing on the tangibles.
category of possible vics that were traveling when they went missing and not in their "turf"..
Category of vics that KNEW each other at some point
Category of vics with verified direct evidence that conflicts with accidental drowning (cell phone elsewhere, folded clothes, etc..)
It has dawned on me that we are all assuming that D&G have linked these cases and we know or will found out how- Maybe the best way to prove that theory is to take the postion from a protaganistic perspective, or in this case, the FBI, which should net us a "fill in the blanks scenario" to work with, but by working with the exclusionary rule, not the "if I can't answer how he got there than it is an accident."
People who don't agree with you aren't supposed to post? As I see it; alcohol and drug awareness never hurt anyone. The only thing that hurts; is when the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse are ignored. And if this is simply a bs ratings grab by KTSP and a dead end trail that Gannon went broke following; then the kids who really were murdered; like possibly Josh Szostak and maybe a couple of others; have been completely hosed. That is; their families who want answers have been hosed. KTSP got the story in the summer of 2007, but they held the story for 9 months until ratings sweeps week. Why was that? As they held their juicy story; 9 more kids drowned during the 2007-2008 school year. It's wrong to question this? Gannon said he went public to warn others; yet he had no problem with KTSP holding the story for 9 months and waiting for ratings sweeps week? Obviously the warning should have come BEFORE the school year if this was really genuine
Anyone can post all they want, but keeping things on track here doesn't mean we will be inclined to respond to continually argue points with them. I think we have wasted a lot of effort and time by doing this while it has gotten us nowhere! Why continue doing something that isn't working and bringing the case any further ahead? Makes no sense to me.
Blink, I think you have a great idea as a new place to start. We can get to work on that while you enjoy yourself. You have earned a break!
Sl- I am happy to discuss ANY opinions based on facts that further the investigation of these occurances. That being said, know that you post to be combative with your meritless and whimsical opinions, look above as an example. Do you sincerely belive that people on this thread are relying on press accounts just as you are? Or do you think that maybe some of us have really done the diligence? This is not about being right, this is about compassion, justice, and prevention. You are clear that iyo, you believe there is an alcohol problem and some are accidents, some are suicides.. I have duly noted your final opinion/analysis, and wish you "luck" as there is clearly nothing left for you to say hear, with no malice on my part. I /we just don't agree and would like to further our discussion without your apparent antagonism. What if this were your son?
SS- I am here, and will be as I can, and when I cannot will be in my heart.
I always feel for those that don't have their sons to be on vacay with, as I am sure we all do, I'm up for it.
Good luck SS. I hope you or others can find something here, but I think as you look closer to each of these cases; you'll see that the hypothermia links I posted might not be throwing you off track. Hypothermia and alcohol might explain most of this. It only takes minutes to drown in cold water if a kid goes under; I never realized hypothermia was that fast, but even a 24 marine died in just minutes. I think if Gannon had done his homework BEFORE mortgaging his house; he would have know there is nothing "preposterious" as he put it; about 4 or 5 young men dieing from alcohol related drownings each year. If all of us had known that 24 Wisonsin kids died the past 30 years from drowning; we wouldn't have been so surprised by 8 Wisonsindrownings in 11 years. And if we were told that Sinsinawa was written 4 years before the murder on Sinsinawa Avenue; it would not have been such a compelling clue. For now I'll devote a bit of time to the Szostak case because thats the case that looks most likely to be foul play. I'll check here to see if any new ideas develop, but this case is closed as I see it.
Great! Now we can move on to other things we haven't already covered fully in other cases here on the board!
While I was searching for information on Brittany Zimmerman last night, I came across a news report of a young man in Wisconsin- about 30 yrs. old IIRC, who was missing, but his car was located near a river and his jacket (and something else, I believe) found as well. I tried to go back and locate it, but not luck yet. Everytime, I put in search clues I get US!! I believe the river began with a "D". Anyone hear of this? It had to be some time this past Spring. I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking it!
I believe I do recall a case like the one you are describing...but I don't recall the name either. Maybe someone else will remember.
Sugar britches RR-
I think your right, but I think the man was FROM Wisconsin originally and "drowned elsewhere"- I just remember thinking "OMG" he is from Wisconsin..
I'm not combative at all. I simply did a lot of research and disagree with you and it bothers you. I've outlined a very strong case that Gannon's main premise was based on the flawed idea that it was unusual that 4 or 5 young males die every year from drowning and hypothermia. I've also added that KTSP waited 9 months to run the story on rating sweeps week, which anyone with common sense knows is very suspect. Here's my case and it's not combative.
I posted lnks to show hypothermia can kill within minutes
I posted links to show young males die in drowning deaths at a 4-1 ratio greater than women
I posted links to show that young males commit suicide at a 4-1 ratio greater than young women
I posted a link to show 24 young males have died from accidental drownings in the past 30 years in Wisconsin
I posted a link to show Wisconsin has students monitoring the waters every night until 4:00 a.m. and no kid has drowned since that began; due in part because they've led a lot of kids away from the rivers who were heading right for the river. And 1 young girl even said that at night, the river looks just like pavement from a short distance
I posted links to show that GHB is now a very popular recreational drug
And I've posted many of the young men's footprints capsules to show the BAC's are 2 or 3 times the legal drinking limit in many of these young men
I'm not combative at all; I'm a realist and I know that until better alcohol and drug awareness is strongly addressed; we'll continue to lose a handful of young college kids every year due to accidental drowning and/or hypothermia. And from Shadows interesting news links; I would guess the stats will slowly show an uptick of young females becoming victims of alcohol related accidents. I wish everyone here luck and will check back from time to time to see if anything ever connects, but for now I've concluded there is no serial murder case, so I'll wish everyone the best.
Wishing you the best as well, but to clarify, I most certainly am not "bothered" by your dissenting opinion, happens all the time to all of us, this is not personal.
As far as the "combative" issue, you should check your earlier posts, you actually are a "self-described "combative, or I would not have used the characterization, it's about the post, not the poster for me.
Peace was unaware of this thread, please welcome him/her, I brought this post over to address..
Peace- where did you see the LK info you are referencing about holidays- can you provide a link? Just an fyi, I do not believe you are supposed to post links from alternative blogs on here so I deleted it below from your original post) Thanks.
Originally Posted by Peace261
Based on the PI and LE investigation regarding the "latin kings" and their possible involvement with the smiley face drownings;
(deleted as is a webblogaddress)
.... a stretch..but what about a possible connection with the Latin Kings?
- The detectives are convinced its some sort of "gang" like group with a hierarchy
- Smiley faces are typically yellow and black, which are the latin king colors.
- Tommy Booth (PA) was last seen talking to two hispanic girls
- Brian Shaffer (OH) was last seen on a security camera talking to two girls (possibly hispanic?)
- Girls are likely involved since it would be easy for them (especially two girls) one could distract the guy while the other slips something into his drink (GHB or some other type of drug)
- Gangs almost always have girl members and certain initiations, this could be how they get into the gang.
There are other connections to this theory and I'm sure some of you could expand on this. Anyone else's thoughts on this?
Quoting: Ithaca College Student 448154
I just googled latin+king+gang. Their symbol is a crown. Didn't some of the smiley faces have crowns?
They also have holidays Jan.6, first week of March, and many others. Will have to check if any of these dates match days the college men went missing.
They also have a weird saying, "5 crowning, 6 drowning". Creepy.They also have chapters in 34 states, and yes, Illinois, Indiana, NY, Wisconsin, etc.
Nick was reported missing on February 5 .... and may have drowned on the 6!
Sorry ... overlooked any linking from other sites ... was searching the web for possible links to "hazing, initiations, gangs" and what connection there may be with missing male college students and found a site similar to web slueths that is talking about the smiley face connections ... and had a post related to Nick G. and Vermont .... ( it is copy posted above ) .... I did not search out the gang - Latin Kings ... the poster above did and mentioned that gangs have initiation rites ... holidays or anniversary dates that symbolize deceased gang members .... etc.
Separate names with a comma.