Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

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brown

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do u think that a group of Native Amer are trying to get back at someone for those drownings or for not investigating the drownings?
or do u think that the same group did that too?
Each tribe should have their own police dept, correct? Maybe they are showing that their tragedies are not getting as much media attention as white men tragedies?
A lot of the pieces fit, but why would they go after young college age men?
I dont think they are using the victim's names or city names as a code.
I think they pick their victims mostly by random- random males that are alone that is.
If I were Native American, I would be pretty upset that the population was almost extinguished by European diseases, their people attacked and killed, land stolen, treaties ignored, language and traditions almost completely lost. Not to mention mascots named after them. Ugh.
I can't help but think that it is much more than one or two people doing this. It has to be a group of people who are keeping it pretty quiet or encrypt their net posts with a different language.
I wish someone would talk.
How many gold Camrys are there? Probably a lot.
 

MarleneNL

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Hi there., I am just reading about this and when i heard about it my thoughts went immediately to Danny Clune someone I "knew" from bookcrossing.


Maybe his name is already mentioned but he also suddenly disappeared and later his body was found in the river.


http://www.finddanny.com/app.html

I am going to read more posts now.
 

MarleneNL

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Hi there., I am just reading about this and when i heard about it my thoughts went immediately to Danny Clune someone I "knew" from bookcrossing.


Maybe his name is already mentioned but he also suddenly disappeared and later his body was found in the river.


http://www.finddanny.com/app.html

I am going to read more posts now.
 

brown

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I don't know if Dan Clune is on the list. It may be worth it to email Julie on the website: Footprints at the river's edge. She has all the victim names and stories. It seems like he could be another one.
I was reading comments posted after an article determining recent victim Gerald Smith's autopsy results- accidental drowning. People are getting downright angry. So am I. This kid wasn't drinking, the coroner made his decision BEFORE the toxicology reports, and his body was found 50 miles downriver. No one saw him near the river.
Its so sad to see all these bright lights being snuffed out. He was to graduate from college a few days later.
Someone needs to tell all college age men not to walk late at night alone. I wish all college age men read this blog.
 

mysterygirl

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Brown, my feeling is not that Native Americans are the killers but were the target in South Dakota.

Those drownings were definitely not all accidental.


I told my father recently, who had never heard of this, the general details of these deaths around the country and he IMMEDIATELY said " Someone is murdering these men, throwing them in the water--they are being murdered!" He is extremely smart and usually right.

Whenever I tell anyone who is neutral, they say the same thing. I think that whenever you know a lot about the story, people start second guessing their initial response and buy the tragic accident thing. But people who have never heard of this and are "fresh" without preformed opinions, all say some type of serial killer/killings. I think that is interesting.
 

Cherish

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Dan Zalmen was found at St. Thomas University
Gerald Smith was found at Terre Haute
and I found this article recently
http://tristatehomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=71332

Dubois County- The Indiana State Police Post at Jasper is conducting a death investigation involving a missing 17 year old from Jasper whose body was located shortly before noon today. The juvenile, Zachary “Zach” Ryan Patton, 17, from Jasper was last seen around 4:00 AM on 5-17-09 on a farm located at 3880 East State Road 164 near Celestine. “Zach” was attending a party at that address with several other high school aged students from the Jasper, IN area.

I mapped these locations on Google maps. It looks like a trail of a killer to me.

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1000+Lasalle+Ave,+Minneapolis,+MN+55403+(University+of+St+Thomas)&daddr=Terre+Haute+to:E+State+Road+164,+Dubois,+Indiana+47521&geocode=FRVCrgIdHrhw-iHJON1ZoBfaCg%3B%3BFcqUSQIdj2LU-ilT-SF5lpFuiDHB5vdOefb4Yg&hl=en&mra=pe&mrcr=1&sll=41.672912,-90&sspn=11.648638,26.916504&ie=UTF8&z=6>

Do college recruiters often travel school to school? They would be very familiar with school campuses and school students yes? I wish someone would come forward with information.
 

Peculiar Petunia

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I believe that college recruiters work for one college only, but a recruiter for a pro sport or a recruiter for a company works for that company. Only thing is, sportswise, UW-Lacrosse is essentially unknown.
It would be interesting to figure out what major the colleges with victims are noted for. UW-L, for example, has a very strong biology department. That might point the way to a company, something like the Trane theory several people are pitching.
 

Cherish

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Thank you Peculiar Petunia, I guess I was thinking more about army or navy recruiters. Maybe even recruiters for career fairs. Thanks for the reply.
 

Peculiar Petunia

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Thank you Peculiar Petunia, I guess I was thinking more about army or navy recruiters. Maybe even recruiters for career fairs. Thanks for the reply.

You're welcome. Guess we're sort of on the same wavelength with business recruiters travelling from campus to campus. It's been awhile, but I seem to remember recruiters coming around in April--but a lot of people graduate in an off semester now.

And I hadn't thought about military recruiters at all.
 

brown

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this was posted by "banbury" on sfkillers.com

This is something I cut and pasted and much of this is already known but there are a few things that I DO NOT want people to forget,one of which is the Gary Snyder connection :

Clues left at Duluth drownings

Ken Christiansen, 19, died in Duluth&#8217;s Chester Creek on Friday, April 13, 2001. Christiansen died on Good Friday, the day of rememberance of Jesus dying on the cross. There is a blue cross and the phrase, &#8220;Jesus saves&#8221; next to the smiley face.

The phrase &#8220;You cant&#8217;s see what you&#8217;re not looking for&#8221; is painted at scene of the drowning. There is a smiley face inside the letter &#8220;o&#8221; in the phrase, &#8220;You can&#8217;t see what you&#8217;re not looking for.&#8221;

The name Christiansen has &#8220;chrisitian&#8221; in it. &#8220;The Chrisitan has long been dead,&#8221; quote from a Gary Snyder poem had been written under the Chester Creek bridge. [Gary Snyder poems]

Gary Snyder is a buddhist and embraces other religions that are similar such as Native American and Witchcraft.

In the &#8220;Redskins&#8221; chapter of the book, Earth House, Snyder wrote &#8220;Most tribes apparently achieved these results simply through yogic-type disciplines&#8230;..&#8221; and &#8220;One religion tradition of this communion with nature which has survived into historic Western times is what has been called Witchcraft. The altered and pelted figure painted on the cave wall of Trois Freres, a shaman-dancer-poet, is a prototype of Shiva and the Devil.&#8221;

Snyder refers to this &#8220;altered&#8221; &#8220;painted&#8221; figure as the &#8220;Devil.&#8221; This may explain why 9 out of 22 smiley faces have devil horns.

In describing this painted altered devil, Snyder wrote, &#8220;the Devil appeared in the likeness of a pretty boy&#8230;.&#8221;

[ most of the young college guys were good-looking. ]

Hiawatha and Columbus connections

At the scene of a drowning in La Crosse, Wisconsin there is a large statue of Hiawatha.

Native American links

There are many Native American clues connected to the Midwest drownings. They are far too coincidental not be connected.

- Chippewa River and Hiawatha statue involving Wisconsin drownings
- The word, &#8216;Sinsinawa&#8217; at a drowning in Iowa
- Chris Jenkins dressed as a Native American on the night he was drowned in Minneapolis
- Many drownings have occurred near a Columbus, Hudson, Native American (Hiawatha) symbol, street, statue, etc.

Christopher Columbus is a person in U.S. history hated by many Native Americans because of his cruel treatment of them. This may be why &#8216;Columbus&#8217; has shown up as a clue left at the scene of drownings. Columbus also represents the &#8220;white man&#8217;s&#8221; takeover of Native American lands. Because of this, Columbus would also be hated by a Snyder-type cult.

An interesting fact about the bloodhound that located the scent of Josh in Collegeville, Minnesota and Chris Jenkins in Minneapolis, is that the scents of both victims were tracked to a Catholic church on the St. Johns campus in Collegeville. This campus has a Knights of Columbus chapter.

Looking for Hiawatha connections to other drownings, we found a Hiawatha Street in Columbus, Ohio near where Brian Shaffer, an Ohio State University medical student went missing April 2, 2006.

In Duluth, near the smiley face is the word &#8220;Ugly&#8221; with the &#8220;U&#8221; being red and shaped like a horseshoe and the rest of the word being gray color. The Ohio State University colors are gray and red and their stadium is called &#8220;The Horseshoe&#8221; because of its &#8220;U&#8221; shape. Their stadium looks like a big red &#8220;U&#8221;, just like the one at Chester Creek in Duluth.

Brian Shaffer, 27, an Ohio State University medical student was last seen April 2, 2006, at the Ugly Tuna Saloona (spelled correctly). Brian Shaffer Archive

Many investigators believe that the drowning of 19-year-old Ohio University student Keith Noble and the disappearance of Brian Shaffer are related.

Streets named &#8220;High&#8221; are at the locations where both victims were last seen. This street name is also in Duluth near Chester Creek and is near other locations of drownings.

Since quotations from author/poet Gary Snyder were found at the Duluth location of two drownings, the killers may be using Snyder&#8217;s writings as a demented template for the killings.

The Smiley Face Killers are a cult whose mission is to destroy people (generally white people) they view as being capitalistic and who do not conform to their way of thinking. (See Snyder&#8217;s poem Smokey The Bear and A Curse On The Men.)

They view humans as less superior than plants and animals. They believe humans hinder life on Earth. (See the book Back On Fire and essay Energy is Eternal Delight.)

They view white college men as capitalists and the source of the problems of the U.S. and around the world. They are compelled to murder these men and believe they are doing the world a tremendous service.

They especially resent white capitalist men who &#8220;drink to it&#8221; as written about in the poem Money Goes Upstream.

The Smiley Face Killers focus on Snyder&#8217;s writings as their religion/lifestyle and they could belong to any race, including white. Snyder&#8217;s writings focus around Native American religion and Buddhism, but also have a mix of other religions as well. Snyder even quotes the Bible occasionally, but is clearly anti-Christian.

Because they feel the need to kill white males, they must do it in a way that they will not be caught. At the same time, they do have a radical message to preach, thus the reason to leave painted messages and taunts i.e., &#8220;You can&#8217;t see what you&#8217;re not looking for.&#8221;

The reason for the smiley face is to be comic as indicated in Snyder&#8217;s Smokey The Bear poem. The smiley face is also the &#8220;Face&#8221; and the &#8220;quiet smile&#8221; of those dead &#8220;mortals&#8221; as indicated in the poem Maitreya The Future Buddha.

The deaths do not happen during full moons. Probably to better conceal the killers.

The Duluth writings are a cryptic link to the Chris Jenkins murder in Minneapolis. The word &#8220;Ally&#8221; appears next to the smiley face in Duluth and had been written by the same person (same hand writing) who quoted the Snyder poem about killing young white men.

Snyder had a poem called &#8220;The Dead by the Side of the Road&#8221; which seems to be the template for the Chris Jenkins homicide. Of the many published poems by Gary Snyder, this one happens to be the one published in Minnesota by Ally Press. Too coincidental to not be connected.

Chris Jenkins&#8217; body was found in the Mississippi River in Minneapolis just a few miles north of Highway 5, which also acts as an Interstate. He was drowned on Halloween and was wearing a Native American costume with a red feather. The feather was found using a bloodhound next to drops of Chris&#8217; blood.

There are many connections between the Chris Jenkins murder, the Snyder poems, and what is written in Duluth &#8212; Snyder&#8217;s writings, Native American, red feather, Interstate Highway 5, Halloween, Dead by the Side of the Road poem, Ally, Ally Press, ect.

At Minnehaha Park in Minneapolis, there is another Hiawatha statue. Minnehaha Park is almost exactly between where the bodies of Chris Jenkins and Chris Norby were found in the Mississippi River and Interstate Highway 5. There is a Hiawatha Avenue and a Columbus Avenue that runs almost the entire length between Highway 5 and the area of where their bodies were found.

The writings at the other drowning scenes should begin to make sense once applied to Snyder&#8217;s writings.
 

brown

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I really now think that environmentalists who have studied Native American culture are seeing white college men as threats. I wonder where banbury got most of his/her information. It is really pointing to some really good info I think. It correllates to the call to war from the native americans, it ties in a lot of the graffiti to Gary Snyder poems/books. Could be some Gary Snyder followers who are radical environmentalists. I read online that Mr Snyder did a poem reading in late sept 1999 in Michigan. Jan 1 2000 Brian Welzian went missing and was found in Lake Michigan.
 

brown

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ps- I really admire the Native American beliefs and do not associate them with witchcraft. I don't know why they were at all connected in the post by banbury.
 

Cherish

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This may or may not be of importance. The first article I read about this young man stated he was autistic, so I almost dismissed it. However I read this article and it states he is one of two teenagers who went missing in a two week period after attending events in the same bar/river area. Things mentioned in this article repeated a now familiar scenario.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/28/mason-mcphail.html


Page told reporters there had been an altercation inside the dance hall "resulting in Mason being escorted from the club." Police say it is too early to say what happened next.

"Our investigation we're leaving open right now," said Page.

MacPhail is the second young person to disappear after attending events along the city's waterfront in the past two weeks.

Police continue to look for Shane Fair, 19, who hasn't been seen since he went to a dance at Ontario Place on May 15.


Here is another quote from a different article.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/641864

MacPhail, 16, was at the Sound Academy with three friends for a concert by the band Disturbed. He became separated from his friends, and shortly after 8 p.m., video cameras at the club recorded him stepping outside.

Police said today he had been involved in a fight at the bar.

"There was an altercation at the club shortly after 8 p.m., and Mason was escorted from the club," said Det. Sgt. Howie Page.
 

Cherish

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I went to the "possible canadian victims" to add this information but it has already been added. VERY INTERESTING POSTS. I don't normally visit that site but from what I did read they should be integrated with the United States missing. Toronto is just over the border from New York... so apparently, our countries borders don't seem to contain these mysterious disappearances/drownings.
 

Trino

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this was posted by "banbury" on sfkillers.com

The Duluth writings are a cryptic link to the Chris Jenkins murder in Minneapolis. The word “Ally” appears next to the smiley face in Duluth and had been written by the same person (same hand writing) who quoted the Snyder poem about killing young white men.

Snyder had a poem called “The Dead by the Side of the Road” which seems to be the template for the Chris Jenkins homicide. Of the many published poems by Gary Snyder, this one happens to be the one published in Minnesota by Ally Press. Too coincidental to not be connected.

Chris Jenkins’ body was found in the Mississippi River in Minneapolis just a few miles north of Highway 5, which also acts as an Interstate. He was drowned on Halloween and was wearing a Native American costume with a red feather. The feather was found using a bloodhound next to drops of Chris’ blood.

There are many connections between the Chris Jenkins murder, the Snyder poems, and what is written in Duluth — Snyder’s writings, Native American, red feather, Interstate Highway 5, Halloween, Dead by the Side of the Road poem, Ally, Ally Press, ect.

At Minnehaha Park in Minneapolis, there is another Hiawatha statue. Minnehaha Park is almost exactly between where the bodies of Chris Jenkins and Chris Norby were found in the Mississippi River and Interstate Highway 5. There is a Hiawatha Avenue and a Columbus Avenue that runs almost the entire length between Highway 5 and the area of where their bodies were found.

The writings at the other drowning scenes should begin to make sense once applied to Snyder’s writings.

Snipped....

Highway 5 is a far cry from an Interstate. Interstates in MN are 35(E & W), 90, 94, 394, 494, 694. Highway 5 crosses the Mississippi River far above the river - no access to the river from 5 unless you jump. What does this have to do with murders?

Chris Jenkins was found at the Third Avenue Bridge, which is upstream from Minnehaha Falls by a few miles - no connection to Minnehaha Falls/Park that I see. The statue is of both Hiawatha and Minnehaha, and the park is named for her.
 

Cherish

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As I was reading articles, I ran across this one and took note of a comment one reader posted:( http://blog.stephenleary.com/2008/04/smiley-face-murders.html )

nancyp said...
I live in southern Minnesota.Last friday night a young man was stopped (in Spirit Lake Iowa) and asked for directions.As he approached the vehicle he was grabbed from behind, his hands were tied and he was tossed in the back seat. The 2 men drove him to a remote country lake, untied him and held him under water until they thought he was dead. This young man is a swimmer and has a record for holding his breath under water. He faked he had drowned. Terrified he remained in the water for what he felt was hours then found his way to a farm house where the local police were called. This young man is related to my sister through marriage and when my sister related the story to me I suggested she call the FBI She was told they ddn't see any link!! I don't understand the lack of follow up on theses cases.

I remember that the article of Gerald Smith who drown in Terre Haute,Indiana stated: "University police reported earlier Wednesday that someone saw a person matching Smith’s description talking for several minutes to a man and woman in a gold Toyota Camry or similar vehicle around 1:30 a.m. Friday morning near Second and Canal streets. " The article goes on to say: " At 1:14 am., about 30 minutes after he left the Ballyhoo, investigators found that Smith used his iPhone to access the Internet, according to ISU police." (http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_story_126223935.html )

Maybe he was accessing the internet for directions?

Another article that I remembered reading regarding a similar vehicle was of a Temple Student : " Tom T. Chiang, 28, of the 6100 block of Henry Avenue, was held on $100,000 bail at the Delaware County prison awaiting drug and alcohol evaluation, police said.

An unidentified 23-year-old man was leaving the Swarthmore library at 2:14 a.m. when a 1997 Lexus driven by Chiang pulled alongside him and Chiang asked for directions, police said. When the student refused to get into the car, they said, Chiang got out and tried to force him inside. They struggled, and the student broke away and called police from a nearby campus building. Chiang was seen driving north on Route 320 by Marple police. He left his car and was caught by police after a short foot pursuit."

(http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080503_Temple_student_charged_with_kidnapping_try.html )


This incident (May 2,08) happened on almost the exact same day that Gerald Smith went missing (May 1,09). The vehicle descriptions are similar.


The defendant, Tom T. Chiang, 28, of the 6100 block of Henry Avenue, was driving a tan, four-door 1997 Lexus when he stopped the student walking from the McCabe Library shortly after 2 a.m., and asked for directions to the president’s house, according to an affidavit of probable cause for his arrest.
( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64230&page=11 )

Notice how similar the times are too. I'm sure this is another way the killers take their victims.
 

brown

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that is interesting. I wonder if Nancy P was telling the truth. If she is, we really need to talk to the guy who was almost drowned.
 

mysterygirl

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As I was reading articles, I ran across this one and took note of a comment one reader posted:( http://blog.stephenleary.com/2008/04/smiley-face-murders.html )

nancyp said...
I live in southern Minnesota.Last friday night a young man was stopped (in Spirit Lake Iowa) and asked for directions.As he approached the vehicle he was grabbed from behind, his hands were tied and he was tossed in the back seat. The 2 men drove him to a remote country lake, untied him and held him under water until they thought he was dead. This young man is a swimmer and has a record for holding his breath under water. He faked he had drowned. Terrified he remained in the water for what he felt was hours then found his way to a farm house where the local police were called. This young man is related to my sister through marriage and when my sister related the story to me I suggested she call the FBI She was told they ddn't see any link!! I don't understand the lack of follow up on theses cases.

I remember that the article of Gerald Smith who drown in Terre Haute,Indiana stated: "University police reported earlier Wednesday that someone saw a person matching Smith’s description talking for several minutes to a man and woman in a gold Toyota Camry or similar vehicle around 1:30 a.m. Friday morning near Second and Canal streets. " The article goes on to say: " At 1:14 am., about 30 minutes after he left the Ballyhoo, investigators found that Smith used his iPhone to access the Internet, according to ISU police." (http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_story_126223935.html )

Maybe he was accessing the internet for directions?

Another article that I remembered reading regarding a similar vehicle was of a Temple Student : " Tom T. Chiang, 28, of the 6100 block of Henry Avenue, was held on $100,000 bail at the Delaware County prison awaiting drug and alcohol evaluation, police said.

An unidentified 23-year-old man was leaving the Swarthmore library at 2:14 a.m. when a 1997 Lexus driven by Chiang pulled alongside him and Chiang asked for directions, police said. When the student refused to get into the car, they said, Chiang got out and tried to force him inside. They struggled, and the student broke away and called police from a nearby campus building. Chiang was seen driving north on Route 320 by Marple police. He left his car and was caught by police after a short foot pursuit."

(http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080503_Temple_student_charged_with_kidnapping_try.html )


This incident (May 2,08) happened on almost the exact same day that Gerald Smith went missing (May 1,09). The vehicle descriptions are similar.


The defendant, Tom T. Chiang, 28, of the 6100 block of Henry Avenue, was driving a tan, four-door 1997 Lexus when he stopped the student walking from the McCabe Library shortly after 2 a.m., and asked for directions to the president’s house, according to an affidavit of probable cause for his arrest.
( http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64230&page=11 )

Notice how similar the times are too. I'm sure this is another way the killers take their victims.

Good catch!
 
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