withoutlimits09
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Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6
- Thread starter Ang50
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I think most of these cases are just drunk people walking into bodies of water and drowning. Instead of them getting behind the wheel and having a drunk driving accident, or getting into a violent fight, or falling down the stairs and suffering a TBI, they have a drunk walking accident into a body of water. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Binge drinking and alcohol abuse has exploded in the US over the past decade or so, along with other drug use such as opioids and pain killers and benzos. 4 out of 5 college students drink, and they do a lot of dangerous binge blackout type drinking. A person can appear almost normal in a blackout state but they are anything but normal. Also note many people at this time during college tend to be thinner and in shape.. some are athletes etc, they don't put on the extra 10 till later. And white males in particular may have a more difficult time getting the binge drinking is super dangerous message. Not just dangerous for long term health in terms of brain function and cancer risk, but immediately super dangerous due to loss of inhibition or ability to reason, use memory properly and motor function while drunk.
I almost did this and oddly can remember clearly my thinking. I had drank a lot of vodka very quickly in a park which was not the way I usually drank which was beers. Beers is a much slower way of getting intoxicated compared to hard liquor. I quickly blacked out but remember little bits. I was in a park that had a lake in a far off point. I walked to the lake and began to walk into it. Luckily, this was summer so it was not cold and this particular lake was shallow and had no steep drop. Though I wasn't thinking about that at that time. I remember thinking that I had to see what this water was about. I was far away from my normal consiousness but that is what I was thinking and feeling emotionally. I wasn't afraid of it like normally in terms of thinking this is some water that probably has crap in it and unknown depths. I was just open to it and wanted to explore it and I wasn't afraid. It was nice and seemed right. I was separate from it and in one sense may as well not have been in it. But something deep inside was telling me get out, get out, and I followed that reluctantly and walked in the other directions for an hour or two before picked up by cops who let me come to my sense in their car. I thanked them.
I wouldn't be surprised if bodies of water may hold some attraction for people drunk if they are nearby. Maybe they think I can swim this.. I'm a good swimmer. Of it they are fearful of water, they think, this is not so scary. Water is different than the normal terrain with twinkles and waves and may attract because of it. It has a mystery because you can't see below the surface. Of course the truth is, you are a terrible swimmer when drunk because your motor function and coordination is shot even if you know what is happening to you. And then there is the temperature and other factors.
I remember when I was very young a very nice older kid who had been very kind to me, one of those unusually rare truly good people that you occasionally meet, drowned in a pond in a nearby park. He got very drunk in a park with friends, his friends left and he walked into a not very deep pond and drowned. They searched for him and then found him. Very very sad. You would think, how can that happen? A small pond. Why did his friends leave him. He seemed strong and intelligent. It's a tragedy.
Alcohol is a very dangerous drug - that is the killer in many of these cases is my theory. I'm sure some of these deaths may be murders or even a type of suicide but based on my own experience and just looking at the kinds of other accidents that happen when people get drunk, and there are many, I'd say being drunk is likely the cause in many of these cases.
Binge drinking and alcohol abuse has exploded in the US over the past decade or so, along with other drug use such as opioids and pain killers and benzos. 4 out of 5 college students drink, and they do a lot of dangerous binge blackout type drinking. A person can appear almost normal in a blackout state but they are anything but normal. Also note many people at this time during college tend to be thinner and in shape.. some are athletes etc, they don't put on the extra 10 till later. And white males in particular may have a more difficult time getting the binge drinking is super dangerous message. Not just dangerous for long term health in terms of brain function and cancer risk, but immediately super dangerous due to loss of inhibition or ability to reason, use memory properly and motor function while drunk.
I almost did this and oddly can remember clearly my thinking. I had drank a lot of vodka very quickly in a park which was not the way I usually drank which was beers. Beers is a much slower way of getting intoxicated compared to hard liquor. I quickly blacked out but remember little bits. I was in a park that had a lake in a far off point. I walked to the lake and began to walk into it. Luckily, this was summer so it was not cold and this particular lake was shallow and had no steep drop. Though I wasn't thinking about that at that time. I remember thinking that I had to see what this water was about. I was far away from my normal consiousness but that is what I was thinking and feeling emotionally. I wasn't afraid of it like normally in terms of thinking this is some water that probably has crap in it and unknown depths. I was just open to it and wanted to explore it and I wasn't afraid. It was nice and seemed right. I was separate from it and in one sense may as well not have been in it. But something deep inside was telling me get out, get out, and I followed that reluctantly and walked in the other directions for an hour or two before picked up by cops who let me come to my sense in their car. I thanked them.
I wouldn't be surprised if bodies of water may hold some attraction for people drunk if they are nearby. Maybe they think I can swim this.. I'm a good swimmer. Of it they are fearful of water, they think, this is not so scary. Water is different than the normal terrain with twinkles and waves and may attract because of it. It has a mystery because you can't see below the surface. Of course the truth is, you are a terrible swimmer when drunk because your motor function and coordination is shot even if you know what is happening to you. And then there is the temperature and other factors.
I remember when I was very young a very nice older kid who had been very kind to me, one of those unusually rare truly good people that you occasionally meet, drowned in a pond in a nearby park. He got very drunk in a park with friends, his friends left and he walked into a not very deep pond and drowned. They searched for him and then found him. Very very sad. You would think, how can that happen? A small pond. Why did his friends leave him. He seemed strong and intelligent. It's a tragedy.
Alcohol is a very dangerous drug - that is the killer in many of these cases is my theory. I'm sure some of these deaths may be murders or even a type of suicide but based on my own experience and just looking at the kinds of other accidents that happen when people get drunk, and there are many, I'd say being drunk is likely the cause in many of these cases.
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Two for the road
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How do you explai the deaths in which men hit the water in a place that was virtually impossible (i.e. locked with Gates) or the men that weren't drinking that went missing and were found in the water?
Also, if this just happens to drunk men then how is it there arent large numbers of drunk men drowning in resort towns?
Also, if this just happens to drunk men then how is it there arent large numbers of drunk men drowning in resort towns?
Some may involve foul play. I think your other question was answered earlier. There are different types of bodies of water and climates where people actually go to swim and have safeguards that unwatched lakes/rivers that are not in "resort towns'' and may not be designated for swimming may not have. And people drown there too. People drown in lakes and rivers all the time without drinking. It happens sometimes in front of friends and families.
If you are in a resort town, the plan may involve swimming in designated swimming areas in possibly optimum environments for it. And you'll likely have lots of company. If you're drunk and walk around the neighborhood into a local lake alone, you may have not planned for it if you even know what is going on and then drown by not being a swimmer, in sudden deep water, very cold water, all alone with no buddies, lifeguards, or other swimmers around, no help and drunk/blackedout etc.
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Where do people drown?
"Approximately 90% of drownings take place in freshwater (rivers, lakes and swimming pools) and 10% in seawater. Drownings in other fluids are rare, and often relate to industrial accidents. In New Zealand's early colonial history, so many settlers died while trying to cross rivers that drowning was known as "The New Zealand death".
Those under the influence of drugs have died in puddles.
What is the gender?
Males: Nearly 80% of people who die from drowning are male.
Use of alcohol increases the risk of drowning. Among adolescents and adults, alcohol use is involved in almost a quarter of emergency department visits for drowning.
Something that almost no one in the maritime industry understands. That includes mariners [and] even many (most) rescue professionals: It is impossible to die from hypothermia in cold water unless you are wearing flotation, because without flotation – you won’t live long enough to become hypothermic."
Drowning - Wikipedia
A deadly predator: Cold water shock
"Short of being hit by a bus or struck by lightning, cold shock is one of the biggest jolts that your body can experience. If you gasp underwater, you will immediately drown. Cold shock is a lot more complicated and dangerous than just gasping for air. The instant that cold water makes contact with your skin, you will experience a number of potentially lethal shock responses. These fall into three categories.."
Captcha
The Importance of understanding dangers of "cold water shock"
Importance of understanding dangers of cold water shock
"The most common misunderstanding about swimming in Lake Tahoe is that people can suffer from hypothermia, which leads to death. The real truth is that "cold water shock" will kill much quicker than hypothermia ever will. The sudden lowering of skin temperature on immersion in cold water represents one of the most profound stimuli that the body can encounter.
Cold Shock. An initial deep and sudden Gasp followed by hyperventilation that can be as much as 600-1000% greater than normal breathing. You must keep your airway clear or run the risk of drowning. Cold Shock will pass in about 1 minute. During that time concentrate on avoiding panic and getting control of your breathing. Wearing a lifejacket during this phase is critically important to keep you afloat and breathing."
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-drownings-more-common-in-lakes-than-the-sea
"....Lake users should be aware of the dangers of cold water shock. Lake water heats in layers, which unlike the sea are not mixed by wave action, for example in Lake Tahoe summer temperatures follow this pattern.
The top 12 inches of the lake are normally okay to swim in due to this layer warming with the sun. The water will be 68-70 by August. It is the layers that rest below this foot where people run into problems when in the lake. The next foot will be a constant 56 degrees, down to 45 degrees a few hundred feet down."
"My observations from local news stories in my part of the world, are that in Oregon, people are more likely to die by swept out to the Pacific Ocean by “sneaker waves” along the coast, even though there are warning signs posted at the state parks and beaches, than any other way of entering the water.
More, though drown in lakes, reservoirs, and rivers because they aren’t wearing life vests, aren’t aware of the strength of currents, are surprised by the water temperatures, aren’t aware of underwater drop-offs, are drunk when they fall into the water from boats, over-estimate their swimming endurance/abilities, or are unsupervised children.
Basically, it seems that people don’t expect placid or smaller bodies of water like ponds and lakes to be as dangerous as the ocean and are thereby unprepared."
-----------------------------------------------------------
"A large percentage of drowning victims (51% of males between the ages of 20 and 89 years in an Australian study) have alcohol in their blood stream (Plueckhahn 1984). However, it is not clear whether alcohol increases the chances of drowning b y: (i) altering the physiological responses to
immersion; (ii) increasing the likelihood of an accident occurring; (iii) causing confusion and lack of co-ordination on immersion; or (iv) a combi
nation of these factors.
On the basis of the evidence obtained during the present experiments and that from relevant earlier studies (Keatinge & Evans, 1960; Martin et
al, 1977) in which the respiratory response was unaltered (Martin et al, 1977)and heart rate response only slightly attenuated (Keatinge & Evans,
1960) by alcohol, it is concluded that moderate con
centrations of alcohol (80-130mL.100mL-1) may
slightly reduce the initial responses to immersion
in cold water, but the practical significance of th
is reduction is questionable. It is further concluded
that the high incidence of drowning victims with
alcohol in their blood is more likely to be due to
the effect of alcohol on co-ordination and
awareness than the initial physiological responses
to immersion."
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...sponses-to-cold-water-immersion-in-humans.pdf
"Approximately 90% of drownings take place in freshwater (rivers, lakes and swimming pools) and 10% in seawater. Drownings in other fluids are rare, and often relate to industrial accidents. In New Zealand's early colonial history, so many settlers died while trying to cross rivers that drowning was known as "The New Zealand death".
Those under the influence of drugs have died in puddles.
What is the gender?
Males: Nearly 80% of people who die from drowning are male.
Use of alcohol increases the risk of drowning. Among adolescents and adults, alcohol use is involved in almost a quarter of emergency department visits for drowning.
Something that almost no one in the maritime industry understands. That includes mariners [and] even many (most) rescue professionals: It is impossible to die from hypothermia in cold water unless you are wearing flotation, because without flotation – you won’t live long enough to become hypothermic."
Drowning - Wikipedia
A deadly predator: Cold water shock
"Short of being hit by a bus or struck by lightning, cold shock is one of the biggest jolts that your body can experience. If you gasp underwater, you will immediately drown. Cold shock is a lot more complicated and dangerous than just gasping for air. The instant that cold water makes contact with your skin, you will experience a number of potentially lethal shock responses. These fall into three categories.."
Captcha
The Importance of understanding dangers of "cold water shock"
Importance of understanding dangers of cold water shock
"The most common misunderstanding about swimming in Lake Tahoe is that people can suffer from hypothermia, which leads to death. The real truth is that "cold water shock" will kill much quicker than hypothermia ever will. The sudden lowering of skin temperature on immersion in cold water represents one of the most profound stimuli that the body can encounter.
Cold Shock. An initial deep and sudden Gasp followed by hyperventilation that can be as much as 600-1000% greater than normal breathing. You must keep your airway clear or run the risk of drowning. Cold Shock will pass in about 1 minute. During that time concentrate on avoiding panic and getting control of your breathing. Wearing a lifejacket during this phase is critically important to keep you afloat and breathing."
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-drownings-more-common-in-lakes-than-the-sea
"....Lake users should be aware of the dangers of cold water shock. Lake water heats in layers, which unlike the sea are not mixed by wave action, for example in Lake Tahoe summer temperatures follow this pattern.
The top 12 inches of the lake are normally okay to swim in due to this layer warming with the sun. The water will be 68-70 by August. It is the layers that rest below this foot where people run into problems when in the lake. The next foot will be a constant 56 degrees, down to 45 degrees a few hundred feet down."
"My observations from local news stories in my part of the world, are that in Oregon, people are more likely to die by swept out to the Pacific Ocean by “sneaker waves” along the coast, even though there are warning signs posted at the state parks and beaches, than any other way of entering the water.
More, though drown in lakes, reservoirs, and rivers because they aren’t wearing life vests, aren’t aware of the strength of currents, are surprised by the water temperatures, aren’t aware of underwater drop-offs, are drunk when they fall into the water from boats, over-estimate their swimming endurance/abilities, or are unsupervised children.
Basically, it seems that people don’t expect placid or smaller bodies of water like ponds and lakes to be as dangerous as the ocean and are thereby unprepared."
-----------------------------------------------------------
"A large percentage of drowning victims (51% of males between the ages of 20 and 89 years in an Australian study) have alcohol in their blood stream (Plueckhahn 1984). However, it is not clear whether alcohol increases the chances of drowning b y: (i) altering the physiological responses to
immersion; (ii) increasing the likelihood of an accident occurring; (iii) causing confusion and lack of co-ordination on immersion; or (iv) a combi
nation of these factors.
On the basis of the evidence obtained during the present experiments and that from relevant earlier studies (Keatinge & Evans, 1960; Martin et
al, 1977) in which the respiratory response was unaltered (Martin et al, 1977)and heart rate response only slightly attenuated (Keatinge & Evans,
1960) by alcohol, it is concluded that moderate con
centrations of alcohol (80-130mL.100mL-1) may
slightly reduce the initial responses to immersion
in cold water, but the practical significance of th
is reduction is questionable. It is further concluded
that the high incidence of drowning victims with
alcohol in their blood is more likely to be due to
the effect of alcohol on co-ordination and
awareness than the initial physiological responses
to immersion."
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...sponses-to-cold-water-immersion-in-humans.pdf
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Jbrown324320
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Justin Brown, last seen leaving Coral Gables restaurant in Saugatuck Michigan with two women heading towards the dock was found drowned in Kalamazoo lake. Police, family look for missing man last seen in Saugatuck Body of missing GR man found in Kzoo River in Saugatuck
James Liedtka was last seen leaving Shenanigans bar in Eau Claire Wisconsin with two women is still missing. JUST IN: Crews searching for 2 missing people in Eau Claire County
James Liedtka was last seen leaving Shenanigans bar in Eau Claire Wisconsin with two women is still missing. JUST IN: Crews searching for 2 missing people in Eau Claire County
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Jbrown324320
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both were last seen with two unknown women, both were last seen drinking at bars, both bars were on Water St. two different cities. no description of the unknown women.
Jbrown324320
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james' missing poster says he was last seen with two women who were not with his party Rapid Search and Rescue
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Jbrown324320
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some are accidental drownings, but I feel many are not.
EmmaRose
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Saco police criminal investigators take over case of missing man
I thought I had added this case back in 2016 when it happened, but I must have been mistaken. Take a look... Twenty-three year old James Dyer goes missing on New Years Eve in Portland, Maine. The circumstances are all too familiar...There's just too many...
I thought I had added this case back in 2016 when it happened, but I must have been mistaken. Take a look... Twenty-three year old James Dyer goes missing on New Years Eve in Portland, Maine. The circumstances are all too familiar...There's just too many...
Jbrown324320
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man went missing from 49ers game and found in water. Body discovered near where Spokane man went missing from 49ers game
man went missing from Bruins game and found in water Man, 24, declared missing after Bruins game
man went missing from Celtics game and found in water Michael Kelleher, Missing Southborough Man, Found Dead In Charles River, Family Confirms
man went missing from Bruins game and found in water Man, 24, declared missing after Bruins game
man went missing from Celtics game and found in water Michael Kelleher, Missing Southborough Man, Found Dead In Charles River, Family Confirms
EmmaRose
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Thank you, Jbrown, for including Ian Powers on this thread. His circumstances are worth consideration here, IMO. (As well as the others you mentioned).
pittsburghgirl
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Hurley's case has always bothered me. Waited for a long time to see autopsy findings resulted but never saw anything.
Reachingfornettles
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Nick Wilcox from Milwaukee missing on New Years Eve... 2013 found in water.
Is a Serial-Killer Gang Murdering Young Men Across the U.S.?
Smiley Face Killers: The Hunt For Justice
6 part series on these starts tomorrow night 7pm EST on Oxygen Channel! Sorry, I hope it's OK to post links.
Smiley Face Killers: The Hunt For Justice
6 part series on these starts tomorrow night 7pm EST on Oxygen Channel! Sorry, I hope it's OK to post links.
brado
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Extensive corresponding article to the Oxygen series:
Is a Serial-Killer Gang Murdering Young Men Across the U.S.?
Is a Serial-Killer Gang Murdering Young Men Across the U.S.?
Just saw this in the news and remembered this thread. Wonder if there's something to it?
Gang of 'smiley face killers' may be behind the drownings of hundreds of men across the US | Daily Mail Online
MSU forensic entomologist lends expertise to 'Smiley Face Killers' TV show
Is a Serial-Killer Gang Murdering Young Men Across the U.S.?
The Dakota James case sounds really strange.
pittsburghgirl
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There are three strange cases in Pittsburgh.
Dapplegrae10
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Hi! Do you know if the Joey LaBute case out of Columbus Ohio is part of the River cases? Thanks! Who Killed Joey LaBute Jr.?(Could Reward Break The Case Open) ?
Eleanor Rigby
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Will the Achim Bailey case end up here, too?
MA - MA - Achim Bailey, 23, told parents he was going to a bar, Springfield, Hampden County, 11 Jan 2019
MA - MA - Achim Bailey, 23, told parents he was going to a bar, Springfield, Hampden County, 11 Jan 2019