Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6

Discussion in 'Deaths of Male College Students/The River Killers' started by christine2448, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Kip

    Kip Active Member

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    I just watched the Todd Geib episode. I wasn't familiar with this case. It was great that a forensic biologist did an experiment with pigs in a lake that showed that after 3 weeks, a body would be almost completely decomposed. Between no composition on the body and the amount of drugs in his body, it's clearly a murder.

    This disappearance/murder is much like the other cases. What I can't make sense of is how a smiley face gang or single killer would know about the private party in the orchard from which Todd disappeared. It's one thing to walk into a bar in a city and target someone there, but how do you do that at a private party? Another possibility is that he was randomly picked up at the highway. It's very strange.
     


  2. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    I've wondered the same thing about the private party cases. A number of other "drowning" cases involved young men leaving college parties rather than bars, especially some of the early upper Mid-West cases. That's part of what has caused me to wonder about two different groups of victims, as I posted about / asked about on the last page. (Nobody responded.) I think a criminal gang may be responsible for some of these many strange "river deaths," but not all. The Oxygen series has focused on the cases that have very strong evidence that the victim was killed before being disposed of in a body of water. However, there are so many others with very strange circumstances that are not so easily explained or neatly proven with forensics.

    In Dakota James' case, there was the frightening and troubling incident a few weeks before his disappearance in which his friend picked him up, sobbing, frightened and disoriented, from a hotel just as he was about to enter a vehicle. He refused to tell her what had happened. IIRC, that night he had been out drinking with a group of friends / co-workers, and the night he disappeared he was also out with a group of many of the same people. Please correct me if I am misremembering this. That group seems suspicious to me. However, Dakota had a respectable job, was in school, and was not known to be in a gang or involved in criminal activities. This group of "friends" and associates really intrigues me, but this aspect of his disappearance was not addressed in the Oxygen episode, that I recall. MOO.
    Anyone else have thoughts on this?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  3. pittsburghgirl

    pittsburghgirl Well-Known Member

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    I feel confident in saying that the cases covered on the Oxygen series all involve homicide. But it's a stretch to think that all of these cases are all connected to one group. But it's not a stretch to think that there might be people across the country who share the same goals, similar tactics. We accept that women are the victims of serial killers, and we know some things that make them vulnerable and where predators hunt. Why can't that be true of the deaths of these men?
     
  4. savagewoman

    savagewoman Active Member

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    Podcast Tim Dillon
    Interviewing a possible survivor of smiley case killer



    Not sure if this was already posted. Very interesting but long
     
  5. pittsburghgirl

    pittsburghgirl Well-Known Member

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    I've been doing a lot of reading on the Columbine massacre as part of a research project. Experts say that event was a turning point in school mass violence, largely because so many other subsequent killers were inspired by and revered the Columbine killers. It strikes me that a similar process may be at work with these murders of young men. Reading about the killings inspires others to look for young men who are vulnerable or those who can be surreptitiously drugged and then abducted.
     
  6. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    I agree that there are likely numerous explanations / causes for the "drowning men." We know there have been serial killers of men and boys, and that "copy cat" crime is a very real phenomenon, to name just two other possibilities. I'm keeping an open mind about all theories and will continue to keep an eye on these cases. MOO.
     
  7. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    I'm unfamiliar with the comic, who's certainly not a legitimate investigator, but the survivor story from his guest was very interesting. The survivor claimed to have been told by the Smiley Face detectives who are doing the Oxygen series that the attack he survived was definitely a Smiley Face attack. However, unlike the cases presented in the Oxygen series, this male college student was apparently left on a dam to fall into a river and drown, rather than held for a period of time, killed and disposed of in water. Therefore, his case, assuming it is true, is an example of my "two-different-kinds-of-killings" theory--actual drownings versus murder victims disposed of in water. I remember at least one case, years ago, of a college student waking up in a river many hours after leaving a bar, and convinced that he had been drugged, abducted and put into the river, not walked there and fallen in.

    In spite of the two groups of victims with different manners of death, I suppose the same "organization" of killers could be responsible for both. However, there are certainly some very strange scenarios and details in some of the disappearances and deaths. The other striking difference from the cases on Oxygen that I watched, was that this victim was left locked inside an extremely secure area, so there was no way he just wandered into it while drunk, as has been claimed in most of the "drowning" cases.

    The comic's most interesting observation, as a self-described "degenerate alcoholic" who used a lot of drugs in his youth, and hung out with similar types, was that in spite of living on Long Island surrounded by all kinds of water, nobody he knew drowned, or rarely even fell into the water. MOO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  8. pittsburghgirl

    pittsburghgirl Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Until a few years ago, I lived along three majors rivers all of my life and never recall young people getting drunk and falling in the river. There have been kids know to be on the river or around it who have disappeared, presumed drowned, or who were later found. But the circumstances weren't mysterious.
     
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  9. KerrinA

    KerrinA New Member

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    Yes, we are just getting started but the first episodes have aired already, Water Way Assassins on facebook. We are not on podcast streaming sites yet but we are working on it
    F20B1A0A-E90B-4CB9-9AC8-A24F47C03415.jpeg F1CF288F-ED46-48AE-BF36-5A71C0D022F7.jpeg
     
  10. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! This is great news. I hope you get the podcast up soon.
     
  11. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    What are sleuthers' thoughts on the recovery of Achim's body from the river? Sadly, it's what I expected from day one.
    I would like to know:
    • Cause of death--is there water in his lungs?
    • Stage of decomposition--does it match the length of time he was missing?
    • Toxicology results--any drugs? If so, what?
    • Any marks on the body?
     
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  12. KerrinA

    KerrinA New Member

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    Oh it’s up and airing you just have to go to our Facebook Page to listen just search Water Way Assasin.
     
  13. Peter Providence

    Peter Providence Member

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    Although many of these victims are white males, I think it's important that people understand this pheonomenon is certainly not restricted to white males. Here in Boston the suspicious deaths of Josue Quispe, Dennis Njoroge, and Franco Garcia are all similar cases involving bright, stand up, young college men of high intelligence who were found in water, and these men were of hispanic and african american descent. In NYC the suspicious death of Anthony Ureña is another case that fits the SFK M.O. to a T. Or how about the suspicious drowning of Jelani Brinson in Minneapolis? I dont think these crimes are exclusively connected to white males. Last week in Springfield, MA, the body of Achim Bailey was found floating in the Connecticut River. He was last seen late at night, over 2 months ago in January, after he was kicked out of a bar. He was also African American, and his case is yet another that fits the sfk profile in every way.

    .
     
  14. Peter Providence

    Peter Providence Member

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    I would also add whether or not there was any graffiti found nearby with characteristics of other sfk cases. I dont necessarily believe that the smiley face or other grafitti is a definitive indication connecting these cases. I'm not sure how significant this aspect of the pheonomenon really is, but I do feel the presence of any odd grafitti should be worth noting.
     
  15. Crazyjster

    Crazyjster Well-Known Member

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    [
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  16. Crazyjster

    Crazyjster Well-Known Member

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    WRONG....not the only person...although I am not a college guy...I frequented the same bars as the guys in Boston and getting your drink spiked by someone can happen very easily. In my case it turned out to be a cab driver who would then conveniently then be there to "help" get the person he drugged "home safely." I went into a bar to bring friends money and drive them home. Instead I drove my car the wrong way on the Expressway and got into a head on collision. I woke up in the hospital to find out I had been drugged and my car totaled (this was 1999). I had no ID, money or anything on me. They found my stuff along with several other girls in a cab drivers home and uncovered his crime. But something very similar to that situation could explain how these men get drugged and taken and killed
     
  17. silverjug

    silverjug Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear you survived this, goes to show you really have to be on your guard.
     
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  18. Eleanor Rigby

    Eleanor Rigby Well-Known Member

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    I, too, am glad you survived the drugging ordeal. It does appear to be different from the cases where the men were found dead in a body of water, but robbery didn't appear to have been the motive. By "only person I've ever encountered" in my reply to ReachingForNettles, I didn't mean that I thought she was the only person to have ever survived a spiked drink episode. I meant she was the only person I've encountered to whom I could ask questions about ending up at a body of water after consuming a spiked drink. I'm very keen on trying to understand what has caused so many of the supposed "drowning" victims to have been seemingly drawn to a body of water. Based on your account, @Crazyjster, I assume you were not drawn to a body of water that night? But, if you were drawn to a body of water before getting into your car, do you remember anything about it that you could share here on the thread? TIA.
     
  19. bluejeanbaby

    bluejeanbaby Member

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  20. Crazyjster

    Crazyjster Well-Known Member

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    @Eleanor Rigby I do not recall the events of the evening but evidently got in my jeep and drove on 93 (the wrong way) and got into a head on collision...that part of 93 is now the Zakim Bridge, everything in that city surrounds water...its Boston. I woke up in the hospital 2 days later and only remember being at the bar. However, I did get to thinking about how many college age males WILLINGLY go into the river drunk, impaired, etc.. and SURVIVE...(or did when I was in college...which was quite a few...college pranks). The instinct to survive kicks in...which makes me think that these men did not go into the water alive. Fight or flight.
     

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