Defense Motion to Exclude Canine

[Itsy]

I once saw a demo (on TV) of a dog trained to detect human blood. They took three squares of fabric, put a drop of human blood on one, a drop of cow's blood on the other and a drop of chicken blood on the third. They let it dry, then washed each of them separately. Once the fabric was dry, they put each piece in a separate bag, and then hid the bags around the courtroom. The dog came into the courtroom, walked around, then immediately picked out the bag with the human blood. One drop, mind you, and the fabric had been washed.

I would ABSOLUTELY (LOL) trust a dog over Casey. Or Cindy.

Tink

Dogs are amazing sniffers!

re: my doggie tale above, my b/f dropped the possum (he had scooped it up with a shovel) on the way to the trashcan. For a couple of weeks afterwards, my dog would stop at both spots to smell some more and try to roll in those places. Luckily I knew what she was going to try to do & stopped her in time - it was in the winter and would have been hard to give her a bath (she's 85 pounds of bulldog/lab so no way to give inside baths).

 

[Itsy]

He really does come out with some ignorant remarks, doesn't he?
No class what-so-ever. BTW, I think it was Detective Yuri Melich that he was referring to.

I think you are right - maybe in the bond hearing? It's been a rough week and I'm too tired to remember. (really should be working at job #2, but broke my rules and took tonight off - it's Friday, lol)

 

[LancelotLink]

Upon closer reading of this motion, I find myself hearing the Michael Keaton character from Much Ago About Nothing.
Lastly, sixthly, and secondly...

3. Finally,....
4
5.

Also, one of the arguments (2)against use of "alerts" in the backyard is because it permits the inference that Caylee was dead at a specific location.

Um, and then moved?? Isn't that their whole defense?

 

[Itsy]

Upon closer reading of this motion, I find myself hearing the Michael Keaton character from Much Ago About Nothing.
Lastly, sixthly, and secondly...

3. Finally,....
4
5.

Also, one of the arguments (2)against use of "alerts" in the backyard is because it permits the inference that Caylee was dead at a specific location.

Um, and then moved?? Isn't that their whole defense?

Well, it's one of them. They seem to have a few they are trying to pick & choose from at this point. Wonder which one they will settle on by trial time...

 

[Ssejors]

Here you go: Motion to exclude Canine

In the State's reply it said this motion did not seem complete (sounds familiar, huh?!). So maybe the defense will file an addendum to complete it.

THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT?

Grasping at straws is the first impression I get with this motion. It seems very unlikely that these CADAVER dog, TRAINED to identify the smell of human decomposition, would be alerting in the backyard to finger nail clippings and hair, JB! Wouldn't they alert to those things EVERYWHERE. Aren't there fallen hairs on nearly every surface in a home and backyard ? How many hairs does a human shed everyday. Does he REALLY mean to imply that these animals who have been trained to find the scent of human decomp are just willy-nilly alerting to HAIRS just laying around? That they, and their handlers are incompetent and unreliable? Wouldn't these dogs then have gone crazy Everywhere in the house and back yard? There is still I'm sure, all kinds of forensic evidence of Caylee's life in that house and yard. Those dogs were not there to Alert to HAIRS and FINGERNAIL clippings BAEZ! I SWEAR! There is nothing in my LIFE right now that makes me crazier that JB and BFS ICA (The BFS is my own Acronym and I shall not share it here.)

TOTALLY OT
This is probably the wrong place to post this last bit but I live in Canada, which seems a life time away from Florida, and there are some days that I really, honestly, read through these forums and hear news about JB, BFSICA, CA, GA and the rest... and I really really can NOT believe that these people ARE REAL. These people exist! I really wish I had the time and money to make a trip to Florida, just to set my very own eyes on BFSICA. It's all too surreal for me.

 

[Amil]

THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT?

Grasping at straws is the first impression I get with this motion. It seems very unlikely that these CADAVER dog, TRAINED to identify the smell of human decomposition, would be alerting in the backyard to finger nail clippings and hair, JB! Wouldn't they alert to those things EVERYWHERE. Aren't there fallen hairs on nearly every surface in a home and backyard ? How many hairs does a human shed everyday. Does he REALLY mean to imply that these animals who have been trained to find the scent of human decomp are just willy-nilly alerting to HAIRS just laying around? That they, and their handlers are incompetent and unreliable? Wouldn't these dogs then have gone crazy Everywhere in the house and back yard? There is still I'm sure, all kinds of forensic evidence of Caylee's life in that house and yard. Those dogs were not there to Alert to HAIRS and FINGERNAIL clippings BAEZ! I SWEAR! There is nothing in my LIFE right now that makes me crazier that JB and BFS ICA (The BFS is my own Acronym and I shall not share it here.)

TOTALLY OT
This is probably the wrong place to post this last bit but I live in Canada, which seems a life time away from Florida, and there are some days that I really, honestly, read through these forums and hear news about JB, BFSICA, CA, GA and the rest... and I really really can NOT believe that these people ARE REAL. These people exist! I really wish I had the time and money to make a trip to Florida, just to set my very own eyes on BFSICA. It's all too surreal for me.

great post!! I wish you could be here too....I've seen them all and they are really living and breathing in my city!! But, I can't believe it either!!

 

[ynotdivein]

Upon closer reading of this motion, I find myself hearing the Michael Keaton character from Much Ago About Nothing.
Lastly, sixthly, and secondly...

3. Finally,....
4
5.

Also, one of the arguments (2)against use of "alerts" in the backyard is because it permits the inference that Caylee was dead at a specific location.

Um, and then moved?? Isn't that their whole defense?

:goodpost:

 

[faefrost]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/26331371/detail.html

Funny, they ask the court to prohibit the use of canine purported "alerts" but to back this up they give-
"We'll get back to you."

Maybe their dog ate that page.

Ummm? Wow! Just Wow! i think that is singlehandedly the WORST motion JB has filed to date. There is no law. There is no facts. There is no relevant case law, science or such. All there is are spurious, heck I don't even want to call them arguements because the read like the cries of a 2 year old in a toy aisle at Walmart. On top of that it reads like it is missing at least a paragraph. Does he have nobody proofreading this stuff?

Hadn't the judge already said at the bail hearing that dogs are well established before the court?

Did Jose let one of the dogs write this?

 

[ynotdivein]

Is Fairgrieve there to somehow discount or confuse what chemical signatures the cadaver dogs were hitting on? Otherwise I do not see how someone with his background has anything to do with anything canine-related at all. (Perhaps he has owned dogs at some point....)

 

[LancelotLink]

Is Fairgrieve there to somehow discount or confuse what chemical signatures the cadaver dogs were hitting on? Otherwise I do not see how someone with his background has anything to do with anything canine-related at all. (Perhaps he has owned dogs at some point....)

Thank you! I poured over his vita as well. All I saw was something about community project?

 

[LancelotLink]

Ummm? Wow! Just Wow! i think that is singlehandedly the WORST motion JB has filed to date. There is no law. There is no facts. There is no relevant case law, science or such. All there is are spurious, heck I don't even want to call them arguements because the read like the cries of a 2 year old in a toy aisle at Walmart. On top of that it reads like it is missing at least a paragraph. Does he have nobody proofreading this stuff?

Hadn't the judge already said at the bail hearing that dogs are well established before the court?

Did Jose let one of the dogs write this?

BBM
Nailed it!
And I dare say we will once again be enthralled with his over reaching and vague arguments. I'm listening to the budget hearing where the canine issue is discussed, and I swear I just heard JB argue that Casey's purchase of twizzlers was attorney/client privilege??
At least I hope we hear him. The idea of listening to CM slinging hyperbole such as "that dog won't hunt" or "he ain't nothing but a hound dog, Judge," might push me over the edge.

 

[Aedrys]

I once saw a demo (on TV) of a dog trained to detect human blood. They took three squares of fabric, put a drop of human blood on one, a drop of cow's blood on the other and a drop of chicken blood on the third. They let it dry, then washed each of them separately. Once the fabric was dry, they put each piece in a separate bag, and then hid the bags around the courtroom. The dog came into the courtroom, walked around, then immediately picked out the bag with the human blood. One drop, mind you, and the fabric had been washed.

I would ABSOLUTELY (LOL) trust a dog over Casey. Or Cindy.

Tink

Me too. I think this is what Baez is worried about. It's bad enough that Casey is unlikable as a human being, but if the jury trusts dogs more than his client, that means his client is less likable and trustworthy than animals. Which, honestly, isn't that far off the mark for me - anyone who does what she did to her child and then not say anything for thirty one days is an animal to me. I mean, how much worse could she possibly look? Then again, I would trust amoeba over Casey Anthony. He better hope people like me aren't on that jury.

 

[Ssejors]

I was sitting here thinking that this motion was an after thought slapped together at the last minute. OR! I thought, Maybe it wasn't finished cause it got forgotten or lost or tucked under a stack of other papers. (my dog ate my homework?) Then the Defense was like "Where all those stupid motions we are filing today?" And they just scooped em all up and forgot they didnt finish with this one but filed it anyway!

 

[Leila]

Have we ever seen the actual motion to exclude the dogs? I am really curious what their claimed basis is?

I think HHJP pretty much telegraphed how this one would go during Mondays hearing when he outright said that the dogs are not a matter for a Frye hearing. They are already accepted by the courts. I think someone said at that time that really the only thing they can then be challenged on is their certification and testing? Does that sound right? If so these are trained and certified LE dogs. I'm gonna guess all of their credentials and certifications are in better shape than JB's.

That's how I heard it too. Cadaver dogs are accepted by the court, and the only thing in question will be their certification and training. If the two dogs that were used on the Anthony's backyard and Casey's car are properly certified and their training meets the court criteria, that will be allowed in.

At the time of the bond hearing the dog handler testified. He stated that the first dog hit on three spots in the Anthony backyard. He said a second dog from another agency was brought in and the handler was not told that the first dog had made three hits in the backyard. The second dog made the same three hits, thus confirming the hits made by the first dog. This evidently is the protocol used......when a hit is made, a second dog is brought in to confirm the hit(s).

I know a woman who is a cadaver dog handler, who was sent to Oklahoma City at the time of the Murrah federal building explosion, and later to the site of the World Trade Center in NYC after Sept. 11, 2001. The dogs and their handlers are constantly going through training and certification. I would be surprised if the dogs that were used were not properly trained and certified. I'm sure this will be approved for the trial.

 

[logicalgirl]

That's how I heard it too. Cadaver dogs are accepted by the court, and the only thing in question will be their certification and training. If the two dogs that were used on the Anthony's backyard and Casey's car are properly certified and their training meets the court criteria, that will be allowed in.

At the time of the bond hearing the dog handler testified. He stated that the first dog hit on three spots in the Anthony backyard. He said a second dog from another agency was brought in and the handler was not told that the first dog had made three hits in the backyard. The second dog made the same three hits, thus confirming the hits made by the first dog. This evidently is the protocol used......when a hit is made, a second dog is brought in to confirm the hit(s).

I know a woman who is a cadaver dog handler, who was sent to Oklahoma City at the time of the Murrah federal building explosion, and later to the site of the World Trade Center in NYC after Sept. 11, 2001. The dogs and their handlers are constantly going through training and certification. I would be surprised if the dogs that were used were not properly trained and certified. I'm sure this will be approved for the trial.

Great post Leila! And weren't the dogs and their handlers brought in by the OCSD? No way would they be using non-certified dogs, would they? I had the feeling when HHJP was talking about the certification and training, he already knew the answer to that question.

 

[Leila]

[/b]
Great post Leila! And weren't the dogs and their handlers brought in by the OCSD? No way would they be using non-certified dogs, would they? I had the feeling when HHJP was talking about the certification and training, he already knew the answer to that question.

I can't see any law enforcement agency using dogs that aren't certified. Why would they use a non-certified dog, knowing full well that they have to meet certain training and certification to merit the results of a cadaver dog search being used in a court of law?

It's my hope that during the trial as the state is presenting their case in chief, they present a brief video on how cadaver dogs are trained, the certification process, and a demo on the capabilities of a cadaver dog to the jury. Everyone will know the abilities of cadaver dogs and their reliability. The ideal time for this is just after a dog handler is put on the stand, but prior to his testimony.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Trial date set for March 2nd and 3rd, 2011 9am
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/68726973/20110107-Notice-of-Hearing---0302-and-0303

 

[LambChop]

THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT?

Grasping at straws is the first impression I get with this motion. It seems very unlikely that these CADAVER dog, TRAINED to identify the smell of human decomposition, would be alerting in the backyard to finger nail clippings and hair, JB! Wouldn't they alert to those things EVERYWHERE. Aren't there fallen hairs on nearly every surface in a home and backyard ? How many hairs does a human shed everyday. Does he REALLY mean to imply that these animals who have been trained to find the scent of human decomp are just willy-nilly alerting to HAIRS just laying around? That they, and their handlers are incompetent and unreliable? Wouldn't these dogs then have gone crazy Everywhere in the house and back yard? There is still I'm sure, all kinds of forensic evidence of Caylee's life in that house and yard. Those dogs were not there to Alert to HAIRS and FINGERNAIL clippings BAEZ! I SWEAR! There is nothing in my LIFE right now that makes me crazier that JB and BFS ICA (The BFS is my own Acronym and I shall not share it here.)

TOTALLY OT
This is probably the wrong place to post this last bit but I live in Canada, which seems a life time away from Florida, and there are some days that I really, honestly, read through these forums and hear news about JB, BFSICA, CA, GA and the rest... and I really really can NOT believe that these people ARE REAL. These people exist! I really wish I had the time and money to make a trip to Florida, just to set my very own eyes on BFSICA. It's all too surreal for me.

Let's hope JB is smart enough not to bring up fingernail clippings while Dr. Lee is in the courtroom.....

 

[whiteangora]

That's how I heard it too. Cadaver dogs are accepted by the court, and the only thing in question will be their certification and training. If the two dogs that were used on the Anthony's backyard and Casey's car are properly certified and their training meets the court criteria, that will be allowed in.

At the time of the bond hearing the dog handler testified. He stated that the first dog hit on three spots in the Anthony backyard. He said a second dog from another agency was brought in and the handler was not told that the first dog had made three hits in the backyard. The second dog made the same three hits, thus confirming the hits made by the first dog. This evidently is the protocol used......when a hit is made, a second dog is brought in to confirm the hit(s).

I know a woman who is a cadaver dog handler, who was sent to Oklahoma City at the time of the Murrah federal building explosion, and later to the site of the World Trade Center in NYC after Sept. 11, 2001. The dogs and their handlers are constantly going through training and certification. I would be surprised if the dogs that were used were not properly trained and certified. I'm sure this will be approved for the trial.

bbm
That was why Cindy called the dogs stupid, because a second one had to be called in. She kept insisting the dogs made NO hits at all.

 

[joypath]

Nope, JB it isn't like the training :floorlaugh: they give the sweet doggies (& not so sweet ones!) at PetSmart or Petco! BOTH dog and handler are "trained" in sync to standardized protocols, heck there are NATIONAL examination boards of certifications (think levels of Karate belts!) and like other professionals:rocker:, participate in "CE" aka continuing education:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:.

:twocents: Back in the day before some of the chemical companies discovered that there was money :maddening: to be made in forensics, pathologists would assist local LE by preparing training specimens sick: NO, you do not want details!:sick. Rest assured, the dogs trained correctly did NOT "alert" to random human debris, only those items with the human decomposition essence. Today, Sigma:seeya: & others lets you purchase it in a bottle!