Deleted Voicemails?

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by Madeleine74, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    The cell phone company would have a detailed call log of all calls coming into and out of TH's cell phone. So they would know whose call(s) got deleted and probably what day/time they got deleted. I don't think this is as nefarious as she thinks it is.
     
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  3. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    From what I understand -- without seeing actual avery trial transcripts - the deleted voicemails happened via the web -- internet site.

    I have posed the plausible theory that anyone that shared a computer with Teresa at anytime, for example a roommate or a ex-boyfriend, could easily have access to her voicemail online.

    We all know that if you log into a site such as that, you can save your login information in the browser, so you don't have to enter it each time. You can even see the password in the settings for the browser for that site.

    Is it crazy to believe that an ex boyfriend might monitor his ex girlfriend , without her knowledge, if he had the means? A few google searches will give you an idea of how common it is for people to do this!

    Doesn't mean they are murderers, but it explains how this could have happened.

    Yes,

    I find it suspicious that after Teresa is missing that someone deleted voicemails.
    I believe that someone who did that, was hiding something -- not necessarily murder, but maybe messages that might be suspicious - the kind of voicemails a ex boyfriend might leave his ex girlfriend.
    I believe that it's completely plausible for anyone with access to a computer teresa logged into her cellphone site, could have access without even entering a password
    I believe a boyfriend, roommate, family member, friends, or a coworker could fit in that category.
    I believe that person could EASILY remove the password by simply clearing the settings of the browser
    I believe that person could then misdirect attention from him by playing a "what's her password game" with a group of friends and family , so they ALL came up with the password. right?

    Do we suspect that police would EVER ask questions like this, given they never even asked for an alibi from the ex boyfriend ?

    Nothing above is crazy imo, if you understand how a web browser works and understand the emotions of an ex boyfriend who wants to know who his ex girlfriend is talking to. right ?


    UPDATE -- I apologize for posting this here, was replying to the comment. I guess this could use it's own thread in terms of a theory on the voicemails.
     
  4. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    If those deleted cell phone calls (there were a couple of them IIRC) can be connected to her murder then yes, nefarious. If someone mistakenly hit the delete key and was afraid to disclose that after the fact (like a relative or whoever) then not nefarious.

    A deleted VM doesn't explain how her body managed to end up burned & charred on the Avery property as she was known to have made her final stop there. And it was 100% there, with a bonfire that was known to have been started and kept going for many hours, by the very dude who she was with immediately before her disappearance, a fire that was started by that very dude within 2 to 3 hours of her disappearance. Just a coincidence? Not to me.
     
  5. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    from episode 5 transcript:

    MH: My mom had called me, um, that Thursday, November 3rd, that afternoon about Teresa and said that she had tried calling her and Teresa's inbox was full.

    MH: So, um, I guess what I was interested in was, um... why it was full or when the first new message was, you know, received in her inbox. Um...

    MH: I... I had a feeling that I might know her voicemail password and so, you know, I... that's why I did call her voicemail.

    Kratz: Did you listen to at least some of those messages that day?

    MH: I did.

    Kratz: Did you listen to all of 'em?

    MH: I believe that I did.

    Kratz: OK. And you said that you called that on the 3rd of November?

    MH: That's correct.

    Buting: Mr. Halbach, did you erase any of the messages?

    MH: I don't believe I erased any messages.

    Buting: All right. Thank you.
     
  6. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    from episode 5 transcript:

    Kratz: How did you know Teresa?

    Hillegas: Um, I guess she was a long-time friend.

    Hillegas: We had dated for five years or so.

    Hillegas: End of high school and early part of college.

    Kratz: Were you aware of Ms. Halbach's living arrangements?

    Hillegass: Yes.

    Kratz: And what were they, if you recall?

    Hillegass: She lived in a house with a friend of ours, Scott Bloedorn.

    Kratz: And was it your understanding that Scott and Teresa had any kind of a romantic relationship?

    Hillegass: No. No romantic relationship.

    Kratz: All right. Just roommates?

    Hillegas: Just roommates.

    Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing?

    Hillegass: Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa, and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon and we printed off her cell phone records off the Internet.

    Hillegass: Just to see, you know, calls she had made or, you know, if there were other numbers of friends that we could find on there.

    Kratz: Finding her cell phone records, how does something like that occur?

    Hillegas: Um... well, there were a couple of us that tried figuring it out, but basically I figured out her password and made up a user name that worked and got into her... her phone records and, I mean, they printed right off.

    Kratz: All right. Now, tell me about this online search.

    Kratz: She had never shared her password with you?

    Hillegas: No.

    Buting: So you just went online to Cingular Wireless or whatever, dot com, and just guessed her password?

    Hillegas: Well, we had just kind of figured that it would... apparently be something relating to her sisters.

    Hillegas: And I believe it was their...

    Hillegas: I think it was their birth dates that got into it for us. I'm not exactly sure about what the password was, but...

    Buting; OK.
     
  7. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    Her ex just figuring out the username/password just doesn't make sense to me.

    I wonder if Cingular had any safety guards to prevent someone from trying repeatedly to get in with the wrong username/pswd. If they knew the name/pswd, they should have just said it, his testimony makes him seem shady IMO.
     
  8. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    from episode 5 transcript:

    Kratz: Via telephone, Your Honor, we're gonna be calling a gentleman by the name of Tony Zimmerman.

    Kratz: Mr. Zimmerman, how is that you're employed?

    Zimmerman on phone: I am a network engineer with Cingular Wireless.

    Kratz: Now as a network engineer, have you been asked to review reports that deal with the wireless usage of a young woman by the name of Teresa Halbach?

    Zimmerman: Yes, I have been.

    Kratz: After October 31st, 2005, at 2:41 p.m., was there any activity in Ms. Halbach's account after that time?

    Zimmerman: Not from the mobile itself. No, there was no activity.

    Buting: Turning to exhibit number 372 for a moment, do you have an opinion about whether or not this would fill up the capacity of this subscriber's voice mailbox?

    Zimmerman: This appears that it would not have filled up the full capacity of the mailbox.

    Buting: All right. And so if one was getting a message on November 3rd, when calling this particular phone number that said "Mailbox full," would that indicate to you that some messages had been erased that are not reflected on this exhibit number 372?

    Zimmerman: If somebody heard that recording that the mailbox was full on November 3rd, then at least one or more messages had to have been removed before the new message at the top of this document was received.
     
  9. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    Youtube video of Ryan Hillegas testimony:

    [video=youtube;L5wT9DQhUgs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wT9DQhUgs[/video]​
     
  10. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    No activity from her cell phone after 2:41pm on Oct 30, 2005.

    That starts the timeline of her disappearance. 2.5 to 3 hours later SA is having a big ole bonfire in his fire pit, one that he keeps going for several hours, into the night.

    BTW, an erased VM doesn't erase the call log at the provider. They would have a detailed log of every call made and received, every time a VM was accessed, deleted, forwarded, etc.
     
  11. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    Telcos implement security guards differently.

    Most do have a sort of 3-5 strikes, you're out. That is, the login is frozen anywhere from 15 minutes to 48 hours. Thereby requiring the user to wait or contact the company to get their web access activated again.

    Others provide 2FA (two factor authorization), where the second "password" so to speak, can be a static numerical key or a dynamic numerical key that is sent to the user via SMS.

    2FA is generally "opt-in." That is, you must activate it.

    Btw, and totally unrelated to this case, I would urge anyone and everyone reading to please activate 2FA. For all internet accessible accounts that offer it (i.e., your bank accounts, google, microsoft, apple, etcetera). When/if you do this, setting it up so that it sends a message to your cell phone is more secure, than sending you an email, or depending upon an app. Also, it never hurts to have a backup cell phone, for example, a prepaid cheap phone, in the event you loose your primary phone.

    Eta ~ 2FA was not offered back in 2005.
     
  12. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    They knew her sisters DOB? On their own? With MH's help? And in what world would that be your first instinct as an ex-bf and roommate? Why would the roommate call the ex when the dad came over inquiring about her absence?
     
  13. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I agree. I really would like to understand better how the "guess the password" party came about. I get why , but I'm just really curious as to how instrumental the ex-boyfriend was in this process.

    Not saying I believe he is the murderer, but it's suspicious to me. Worth questioning.
     
  14. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    Keep in mind that he also said they "made up a username that worked" ?

    I'd at minimum like to know what that was, and how they figured that out.

    thalbach -- seems possible ?

    Maybe someone knows her username she uses for online sites ?

    But now we are saying it's username AND password. in 3-5 strikes.

    I am suspicious enough to want to know that username. you ?
     
  15. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    Which is why I keep saying, it was in the browser all along. Just like I log into this site without typing a password all the time.

    I look at my bills online, including cell phone bill, all the time. I never use a password after the first time.

    I think that if there was a means of checking logins to that voicemail - ie an ip address, that would be telling.

    I am relatively sure that sites can see the ip address of the person logging in and the date, not sure if they log them. But if police cared, they could likely get that information.

    Could the defense ?
     
  16. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Max about it possibly being in the browser already, but then why not just say that? Instead the ex comes up with this elaborate guessing game (they should be buying tickets for the powerball lottery lol) that they are super good at and got into her account, and printed everything off.

    I don't think that is where the voicemail's were deleted though, I think they were deleted by calling her number and accessing her vm's. I know that they could be deleted that way, I am not too sure about actually accessing them online and having the ability to delete them.

    I know this is a bit off topic for this thread, but how about that room mate..... ya know, the one that was also a friend.... He never questioned where she was for 3 days???? My daughter lives with a room mate, and my guess would be he would call if he hadn't seen or heard from her in 3 days (especially work days) :gaah:
     
  17. stephsb

    stephsb New Member

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    Just playing devils advocate since I don't know the relationship w. Her roommate, but I lived with various friends and roommates in college, before I lived w. My fiancé, and one in particular was an architecture student and from Michigan(this was when I was in Milwaukee) and oftentimes I wouldn't see her for days, she would just up and go home w.o telling us, or spend days in studio working on a project, stopping home for like 30 min, and I wouldn't always be there. We would joke with her about how she better not end up dead somewhere, because we'd never know to report her missing. That was just her personality...maybe Teresa was the same way?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    She may have been, I haven't seen anything that supports it either way. Just another question I have lol
     
  19. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I guess I am maybe not being clear enough here.

    I am not saying that these people (roommate/ex-boyfriend) would want anyone to know they were in TH's voicemail. - that's kind of the point, of why they wouldn't say.

    If the ex-boyfriend was checking his ex-girlfriends voicemail without her knowledge via this method, why would you expect him to divulge that information ? Looks kinda bad. right ?

    However, everyone coming together and playing the "guess the login and password" game. Gets everyone in the voicemail and you weren't the one that guessed the password *wink* -- you all did.

    Of course maybe he might go... hmm i think she might use her sisters birthdates maybe ? or her own ? lets try a few *wink*
     
  20. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I don't find it odd, if that's how she was. I can even see the roommate being concerned, but not saying anything for a few days. We'd have to know what she was like normally.

    I agree , either way is plausible. If she was the type to be around every night, and roommate knew this, I'd say it's odd to not at least inquire to somebody after 2 days. jmo

    I think we can all agree every situation can be very different.
     
  21. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I'll be really clear and say that I think there's a possibility that the ex-boyfriend wanted to come across as helpful/concerned, and no one should have reason to suspect him.

    It's not uncommon the ex-boyfriend in any murder case like this is a top suspect, right ?

    So if everyone goes into voicemail and sees no voicemails from him of a crazy nature, then that's gonna support the helpful/concerned guy persona.

    A guy with nothing to hide. He clearly knows he deleted any questionable emails, so nothing anyone would connect to him.

    As I said, this doesn't even require that he's a murderer. Just a guy who has been monitoring his ex-girlfriend and maybe said some things in a voicemail that he didn't want others to hear. maybe not even aggressive.

    But if you are going to investigate a murder, I think you should be suspicious even though it's not a smoking gun for murder. -- just in case.


    Is it just me who is suspicious of the origins of 2 deleted voicemails after a woman who was murdered had gone missing ?
     

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