Devil's Advocate

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by Tricia, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Administrator

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    Let me state without hesitation that there is no question in my mind that Casey is lying and knows exactly what happened to Caylee. I have reached the most likely conclusion that Caylee is dead.

    Do you remember the Elizabeth Smart case? Happened right her in Salt Lake. About 45 minutes from where I live.

    I joined the search, went to the press conferences so I could report on my other forum, Forums for Justice.org. I did not own Websleuths at the time.

    The police were so sure they had the right suspect in Richard Ricci and for a while I drank the Kool-aid. Then on Larry King Live Marc Klaas was the first one to suggest that Ricci didn't do it. Very unusal comment coming from him. I knew it must have taken a lot to get Klaas to proclaim his doubts.

    I'll make this very long story short. It did come out that police were releasing information hoping to make Ricci crack because in reality all they had was an ex-con came in contact with Elizabeth at some point in her life. That is it. NOTHING ELSE. But, the cops said the hat Elizabeth's little sister described the kidnapper wearing was found at Angela Ricci's dad's house. Tidbits along this line. All not true. Said neighbors saw Ricci digging a hole under his trailor the morning of the kidnapping. Not true. I could go on but you get the picture.

    Angela Ricci is now a good friend of mine. Her story would make some of you never trust the police again. It certainly did make me question my loyalty to the law.

    I know the two cases are very different but let me pose this to you;

    What if the police are not telling the truth about Casey? What if there is "the nanny" out there and cops are just not looking for her.

    What if Casey has told the cops more than we know and the cops are not releasing it because it would make Casey look good.

    Again, I don't believe it but then I was certain Richard Ricci took Elizabeth Smart too. For a long time.

    What if Casey's lies are not the real story. Could the police have made up the Universal story?

    You know why they are releasing the audio from her phone calls, to put pressure on her. Maybe they are making things up to put pressure on her and her family.

    Just a thought. Now, be nice to me if you answer my post. I cry very easily. LOL.
     
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  3. txsvicki

    txsvicki New Member

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    I think anything is possible, but what about the comraderie and respect between officers. George is former LE and you'd think that they would be trying to help him since he was/is one of them.
     
  4. LI_Mom

    LI_Mom New Member

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    Tricia, I've been saying for days that I truly believe most of what we hear about this case is psy ops.... & I've begun questioning whether they finally got the Anthony family on board so they can all work together to get Casey talking.

    I just don't follow the logic that Casey has already told them good leads & there could be a nanny....

    NOBODY reports knowing of this nanny... not strangers OR even friends.

    NOBODY can confirm a single 'fact' she told.

    It doesn't seem possible that NOBODY (except Cindy) would protest if there was a chance Casey was being treated unfairly & being lied about.
     
  5. cricket

    cricket New Member

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    OK - I'm not crazy! Your post went poof and disappeared! I now see you moved it to its own thread.

    I usually give LE the benefit of the doubt, but after cases like the one you mentioned (Ricci), Stephen Hatfill, Richard Jewell, and especially after the whole Duke Lacrosse debacle, I have learned not to assume that all LE are honorable and competent. Some clearly aren't.

    I don't know if we are getting the truth from LE in this case or not, but one thing that raised my hinky meter was that during the bond hearing LE made such a big deal out of the stain the found in her car. They implied that it was likely blood. But they only mentioned testing it with a light. I know LE has field test kits that use chemicals and they could have determined immediately whether or not the stain was actually human blood. I wonder why they didn't do a definitive test right away. Is it because if it wasn't human blood, they would have less "evidence" to talk about at the bond hearing?
     
  6. athy

    athy New Member

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    if this nanny is out there and was a part of their life for 3 years. if this nanny use to go to fusian's as did the rest of Casey's friends. WHY does no one but Casey know this woman? WHY can't she give a better description than she has of this woman?

    and WHY would you just drop a kid off at the curb of this woman? whenever i had a babysitter which was rare and few between...i always made sure i took my child inside before saying goodbye. made sure my child was settled before i left.
     
  7. sugarbritches

    sugarbritches New Member

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    This is a What if?
    What if Casey was involved with some sort of gang or illegal activity. And for some reason the "gang" members took her and Caylee (in her car). Dropped the car off and told her they would keep Caylee until she did whatever they kidnapped her for. She spent the remainder of the days acutually looking for her. Had to act "normal" for the sake of the "gang" telling her not to talk. Finally had to admit to mom and then was arrested. The smell from the car could be from another source that the gang had it for. I am still convinced the Patrick visit in jail was a secret code of sorts.
    I don't know guys...I guess I am just trying to put another spin on this in hopes that Caylee is still alive. I cannot imagine how crazy you could be as a mother to smile everyday knowing your daughter is dead. I can't wrap my head around it.
     
  8. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

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    I would believe there was the slight possibility that Casey did leave Caylee with a babysitter who now refuses to give her back and is threatening Casey's family, except that Casey does not seem concerned about her child's welfare or anxious to hear any information that may have been discovered, whether about Caylee or any of her threatened family members.

    Plus, the "babysitter and associates" are either dangerous, meaning that everybody who tells the truth is in jeopardy, or they are benign, meaning that Caylee can be assumed to be okay. But not both.
     
  9. LI_Mom

    LI_Mom New Member

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    IF the alleged sample of blood was very small, they wouldn't want to do more testing than absolutely necessary... you never know how many tests you might end up running on that one spot.


    When I heard them use the word 'stain' I automatically thought of decomposition type stains & not blood... not sure what everyone else thought.
     
  10. LI_Mom

    LI_Mom New Member

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    Sounds crazy enough for Casey to be caught up in. lol


    One problem.... the cadaver dogs alerting in the Anthony backyard.

    Do the Anthonys have the whole gang hanging out while they're out of town & none of the neighbors even noticed?
     
  11. absolut_alexis

    absolut_alexis New Member

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    Well, the audio is public record from the jail, so the police aren't releasing it, but I guess in a way they are since they are choosing what is vetted out.

    I don't think the police could have made up the universal story because Casey and Cindy said the police spent several hours with her and went places. BUT - Lee did warn Casey to be exact and precise. I think Casey's phrasing that she worked at Universal but was actually contracted by Kodak makes sense. Cindy admitted that she wasn't working there in 2008, though.

    It is possible that the police could be uncompromising in holding her hard and fast to details to catch her in lies to create a larger web of lies. Cindy's confusion of dates is understandable due to her distress, she didn't remember which weekend was father's day. Casey isn't going to be cut any slack because she doesn't seem distressed.

    I have thought about if there anything that Casey is consistant on. She told police and Cindy that Caylee was with the nanny, but Tony and his DJ friend that Caylee was with Cindy / the nanny /friends. So that has not been a consistent story. She is not consistent in saying she doesn't know where Caylee was, because in all those phone calls, etc, she said she was with the nanny or someone.

    She is not consistent in saying Caylee is okay, because she says she is afraid people will hurt her if she tells the police who has her, but she also gave the police a specific name.

    If there was one thing that we could lock on as true, and police said - no, that is a lie, well then, I'd think maybe the police were too disgusted with her to give her a chance. There is nothing to lock in on, though.
     
  12. JanPat

    JanPat New Member

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    Tricia,

    I'd agree with you if everything we knew about Casey came from LE. The difference here is the most damaging evidence has come straight from Casey herself. The party pics while her daughter is missing, the audiotapes from the jail calls, her MySpace postings--the list goes on and on.

    I remember following Elizabeth Smart on FFJ. I also remember having quite a few reservations about Ricci even when LE was pushing him as the prime suspect. For everything that LE and the media pointed to as evidence of his guilt, I was able to see a reasonable explanation for where he was, what he was doing. Yes, he was a convicted criminal, but something rang true when he and his wife spoke. I remember crying when I heard about his death--so sad to die under such a dark cloud!

    I agree with you on taking a devil's advocate stance. It's for that reason I can't sit in judgement on any of the Anthony's other than Casey at this time. I just don't see evidence of wrongdoing on their part. Yes, they may have some blind loyalty, but I haven't yet seen real evidence of involvement.

    You have to take what LE and the media give you and evaluate it with a bit of skepticism. That's what's kept me reading on your forums for years--I like the fact that people THINK rather than blindly accepting what is fed to them. :) In this case however, Casey's position is one of her own making, fed by her own words and behaviors.
     
  13. Aleve N Fla

    Aleve N Fla New Member

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    Tricia, you have made some very valid comments. I feel for your friend Angela and her family - gosh what they must have gone through. I can understand why you many think that it is LE that has dropped the ball here.
    Knowing what I have read on many sites about the people that are involved in the disappearance of Caylee I honestly dont think it is a LE coverup. Yes, on many occasions LE has tried to convict innocents just to make themselves look like heros but I dont think this is the case.

    Yes George is an ex LE officer, but to me that doesnt mean much, at least in my opinion it doesnt.
    Yes Jesse Grund used to work for OPD and was either fired or quit for various reasons. He has made the statement that he spoke to Casey on the 24th and swears he heard Caylee. Then spoke to Casey again on the 25th and she said that she was with the sitter.

    And yes, that other friend of Caseys was also an ex- LE officer. I see those the only three connections to LE.

    Is it possible that there is some bad blood between some of those involved with the case and some in LE trying to solve the case - I would think most definitely - but I dont think our LE here in Orlando would try to do what the LE did in Salt Lake - at least I hope not.

    As far as the nanny goes - my problem with that is that so many friends of Casey never ever met the Nanny - or babysitter. Darling Caylee is almost 3 years old and NO ONE met her?? I know when my two were small and we had a sitter other of our friends knew the sitter, saw her - knew her number. I think thats how it is normally. How could her friends (forgetting family in case they are covering up something) have not known the sitter. That to me is a tell tale sign.

    Sad to say only time will tell with this horrific case.... and I hope time brings the truth to light..
     
  14. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Administrator

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    All I can say is, "Damn, you guys are smart!!!!

    I love reading this thread. Reading how you all make such sharp points.

    It is good idea to try and think how a piece of evidence might not be what you think it is. This way all the bases are covered.

    Of course I agree with everything you are saying.

    Even if all of the evidence we have seen so far turns out to be untrue, and that is a big if, Casey's behavior is the final straw. You can't spin, or try to explain away her behavior. It is what it is. A mom with no care in the world about her missing child. Why wouldn't she care, because she knows.

    End of story.
     
  15. christine2448

    christine2448 Retired WS Staff

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    :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. Thank you Tricia, for all you do!
     
  16. Elphaba

    Elphaba Defying Gravity...

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    It does make you really think... that is for sure. But the thing is, while LE is presenting to us the picture of a woman that seems cold and indifferent to where her child is, on top of being a pathological liar: a good bit of people outside of LE that actually know her are also painting her in that same light. I think that speaks volumes and bolsters the case LE have with her.
     
  17. cricket

    cricket New Member

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    I couldn't find any article that mentions the size of the stain. I found this in one article:

    Here's what cops have found in the trunk of Casey's car so far:


    Hair that appears to match Caylee.


    Dirt.


    Questionable stains that show up under a black light.


    The Anthonys say trash was left in the car. On Thursday, investigators got the trash from George Anthony and are still investigating whether it's the source of the "decomposing" smell. It has not been determined yet.


    The detective testified that he believes "the two smells are not the same."


    Link:

    http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2008/07/post-2.html


    I found another article about the bond hearing but it didn't even mention the stain, but quoted the detective testifying about the smell of decomposition in the car.

    You are right that if the stain was small, they wouldn't attempt to do a chemical test in the field; they would wait and test it at the lab. I don't know, it just seemed like LE was trying to make the stain out to be a bigger deal than it really is. That being said, I do NOT think LE would lie about the dogs hitting on the car and the yard; they testified under oath.

    As much as I would love to believe there is some alternate explanation for Caylee being gone (and that she is alive), it's just hard to get past the fact that two dogs smelled decomp.
     
  18. Elphaba

    Elphaba Defying Gravity...

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    Amen!
     
  19. brighidin

    brighidin remember me as a time of day

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    I'm always wary of police. I think of the case of Jane Doe in Toronto. She was the fifth woman raped by the 'balcony rapist' who had a very specific MO but the police did not release any information because they didn't want women to get 'hysterical' and scare off the rapist. After a VERY long court battle, she was able to sue the police for essentially using her as bait.

    In this case, I can't say that I see the police doing a whole lot in the public. It seems to me that they are taking a back seat - that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything, it just isn't front and centre, like in other high profile cases.
    What is concerning to me is that apparently (according to the NG show this evening) a sketch has been made the nanny. Where is it? I think I have read most of the threads here, but I haven't seen it. I could be totally missing something though.
     
  20. OneLostGrl

    OneLostGrl I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane

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    Tricia-

    I ask myself these kinds of questions about this case every day. Some moments I really don't think this child is dead. I still have 2 or 3 different theories about what could have happened to Caylee. I also at times wonder if the police, perhaps, are NOT investigating things the way they should because they assume Casey is guilty of killing her daughter.

    But then I always come back to the the dogs picking up the decomp smell in the car and in the yard and the grandmother saying in the 911 call that it "Smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!".

    I don't know... I do not know what to expect in this case and my own theories vary so much that nothing would surprise me..
     
  21. sugarbritches

    sugarbritches New Member

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    "Maybe some will get a clue what this forum is all about. ":


    Should I have posted my comments elsewhere? Just asking because I am new.
    :confused:
     
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