Did John Ramsey carry the body to contaminate the scene or not?

[SapphireSteel]

RBBM: Just thinking about JR's statement here. An "inside job," I wonder what exactly he meant by this? Did he mean "inside" Access Graphics job? Did he mean "inside" the City of Boulder job? "Inside" their circle of family and friends job? Just what did JR mean by this?

JMO

At that stage they were throwing all their friends and colleagues and acquaintances and employees under the bus so I think the comment is hinting towards that.

:cow:

 

[Frigga]

Does anyone have a link to the poem, in its entirety? TIA

... my dad neither, by the way. Weird and creepy, IMOO!

 

[tezi]

At that stage they were throwing all their friends and colleagues and acquaintances and employees under the bus so I think the comment is hinting towards that.

:cow:

You are probably right...

JMO

 

[Chelly]

Does anyone have a link to the poem, in its entirety? TIA

... my dad neither, by the way. Weird and creepy, IMOO!

There is NO link. It is a line in the book PMPT, as stated by OP.

 

[madeleine]

Does anyone have a link to the poem, in its entirety? TIA

... my dad neither, by the way. Weird and creepy, IMOO!

Sadly,no.It's something L.Wilcox claims to have read while she was working for them.

 

[madeleine]

it's not the first time when they praise the BPD for doing such a good job LOL

it cuts both ways,if they admit how bad the BPD handled the crime scene,they admit that the DNA is useless....so like it or not,they have to say the police did a great job LMAO


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0004/28/bp.00.html

J. RAMSEY: Well, one of the things the police did do a reasonably good job of was collecting evidence at the beginning. And what we're looking for, we believe, is a male, a pedophile, someone who owned or had access to a stun gun, someone who understood how to tie the garrote. This was a professional killing device. This was not just a piece of string. You look at the picture on our Web site, this is a professional killing device.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html


P. RAMSEY: The police that were there the morning of the 26th taking evidence have a lot of tangible evidence. They did a good job at collecting evidence. We have fibers. We have DNA. We have a lot of evidence. The problem was that then they did not take the evidence to where it would lead.

 

[BOESP]

Here's a link to what little is mentioned about the poem in "Perfect Murder. Perfect Town."

http://books.google.com/books?id=fd...e:Murder intitle:Perfect intitle:Town&f=false

 

[DeeDee249]

RBBM: Just thinking about JR's statement here. An "inside job," I wonder what exactly he meant by this? Did he mean "inside" Access Graphics job? Did he mean "inside" the City of Boulder job? "Inside" their circle of family and friends job? Just what did JR mean by this?

JMO

He meant ALL of it- he was throwing so much out there in hopes something would stick. His comment, to me, is what links the parents to the note (besides the perfect match to Patsy's handwriting). That note tried to portray so many possible perps - a business associate, a SFF, a disgruntled employee.

 

[Venom]

He meant ALL of it- he was throwing so much out there in hopes something would stick. His comment, to me, is what links the parents to the note (besides the perfect match to Patsy's handwriting). That note tried to portray so many possible perps - a business associate, a SFF, a disgruntled employee.

So the R's started throwing everyone under the bus in the ransom note. :twocents:

 

[DeeDee249]

So the R's started throwing everyone under the bus in the ransom note. :twocents:

Yes- the way I see it. They mentioned the SFF to make it seem like foreign terrorists. They made comments about not respecting his "bussiness" (sic) to point to a disgruntled emlpoyee- they "personalized" the note in a way that no kidnapper ever would- using his first name, advising him to be "rested", etc. to point to someone who knew them personally.
The first few names they gave police were their housekeeper LHP and one of JR's former employees (Merrick) who left under problematic circumstances. The most inane part of the note was the SFF reference. HIs comment to Arndt about it being an "inside job" just SECONDS after finding his daughter's body indicates he obviously didn't believe the RN. Now ...why would a parent of a kidnapped kid disbelieve the ransom note? An INNOCENT parent of an actually kidnapped child would take it seriously even if their child was found dead. They would have no reason to doubt it. But in this case the parents wrote it themselves.

 

[dodie20]

Yes, I think JR deliberately tried to contaminate the scene. Even back then, people knew enough to be worried about hair, fibers, fingerprints, and evidence transferred to their own bodies and clothes. If he was acting out of a shock, I would expect him to do more undoing than just taking the tape off of her mouth, for instance. There were worse things than that tape. And although not necessarily incriminating, I also find it interesting that JR took a shower that early morning. After JB was taken upstairs, PR throwing herself on the body was also done in order to contaminate, IMO. Whatever the scenario, both parents managing to get their hands on the body is suspicious. and I do think it was done to explain away certain evidence. All moo

 

[CHERIE.T]

I concur////he knew exactly what he was doing. imo

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

Yes, John wanted to possibly contaminate the body with witnesses to see it.

But I don't believe he originally thought this would happen. I think he hoped to dump the body as evidenced by the ransom note and the "tomorrow" ransom call between 8-10am which would have given him a full day to dump the body or further stage a more believable intruder break in.

I think he knew the Police were at his home. He knew the body would be discovered that day probably. And I think he reasoned that by him finding the body it would at least give him the excuse that anything incriminating found on her potentially had a reasonable explanation.

 

[lawstudent]

I don't see why he'd need to contaminate anything. It would not be suspicious for traces of him to be found on her, unless it was something like semen, which carrying her would not have explained. If he was responsible, he probably realized she'd be found and decided to get it over with, and then perhaps tried to be too convincing with his grief and desperation. I can't say what is normal to do in the situation - if I found someone like that, clearly dead, I don't think I'd be able to touch them, but who knows?

 

[TroyinTX]

Of course he did. Which is why this "touch DNA" minuscule sample that was used to "clear" them means nothing. It could have come from anywhere, including the blankets, etc...that were used to cover her body.

 

[Chelly]

I don't see why he'd need to contaminate anything. It would not be suspicious for traces of him to be found on her, unless it was something like semen, which carrying her would not have explained. If he was responsible, he probably realized she'd be found and decided to get it over with, and then perhaps tried to be too convincing with his grief and desperation. I can't say what is normal to do in the situation - if I found someone like that, clearly dead, I don't think I'd be able to touch them, but who knows?

Every interaction among people at the crime scene with the victim's body contaminates it. Valuable evidence from JBR's body could have rubbed off onto JR. Transference of other people's DNA on JR could have landed on JBR's body.
If JR played a roll in his daughter's death, he would want to contaminate the crime scene, lawstudent.

 

[LinasK]

It has to be an inside job!"............Jeeze, who talks like that anyway?

Ah, but it was an inside job, since the Ramsey's were the only ones in the house!

 

[midwest mama]

Ah, but it was an inside job, since the Ramsey's were the only ones in the house!

Ah, yes, the four that we all know about.....unless there WAS another person there that evening that was able to leave with the assistance of the R's in covering up. Another close family member, another very, very close and trusted friend or business/pageant person?

There were tan fibers unable to be identified.

The touchDNA used as a reference was proven to be present in two places: in the panties and on the longjohns. Whoever was responsible for transmitting the unidentifiable tDNA was able to touch both articles of clothing. Unless JB put on the size 12's herself, she was not the one who transmitted it, leaving JR, PR, BR or the possibility of someone else.

IMO, whoever transmitted the identifiable tDNA in the two places of her clothing would have seemingly been present and assisted with the redressing.

 

[LinasK]

Ah, yes, the four that we all know about.....unless there WAS another person there that evening that was able to leave with the assistance of the R's in covering up. Another close family member, another very, very close and trusted friend or business/pageant person?

There were tan fibers unable to be identified.

The touchDNA used as a reference was proven to be present in two places: in the panties and on the longjohns. Whoever was responsible for transmitting the unidentifiable tDNA was able to touch both articles of clothing. Unless JB put on the size 12's herself, she was not the one who transmitted it, leaving JR, PR, BR or the possibility of someone else.

IMO, whoever transmitted the identifiable tDNA in the two places of her clothing would have seemingly been present and assisted with the redressing.

Unless it was a factory worker

 

[ElleElle]

I've always been curious about why John Ramsey pulled the duct tape off and carried JonBenet upstairs. To me, I'd have thought about disturbing any evidence. But, then again, I'm a true crime buff.
I know that one has no idea how they would react, think, or do if this should happen to them.

I think it is odd. But, then again, i'm not a father. I also do not know what kind of father John Ramsey was. It seems he was not in JBR's life as much as Patsy.