Did JonBenet Have A Nosebleed The Night She Died?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Ames, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Pillows and things. Yeah,

    14 this is the little pillow (inaudible). Her Christmas

    15 doll.

    16 TOM HANEY: That is 73, 74, 75, and 76 now.

    17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).

    18 TOM HANEY: That I couldn't tell you right at

    19 this moment. Do you remember any staining on that

    20 pillow the night you put her to bed?

    21 PATSY RAMSEY: No. It was dark in there, you

    22 know.

    23 TOM HANEY: When you put her to bed did you

    24 turn on any lights that night, Christmas night.

    25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so. Maybe. I

    0426

    1 can't remember. I remember dressing her, her pajamas

    2 pants on her. It was dark. I didn't turn on the

    3 bright lights because I didn't want to wake her up.

    4 TOM HANEY: But back up. John had carried

    5 her up and put her on the bed, and then you took it

    6 from there?

    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

    8 TOM HANEY: But you never turned on the

    9 light?

    10 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably turned one on in

    11 the bathroom looking for the pajamas. I would have

    12 been in there.

    13 TOM HANEY: How about this pillow, when is

    14 the last time in the daytime would you have some time

    15 on Christmas day gone in there to put away Christmas

    16 presents, to do anything?

    17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.

    18 TOM HANEY: How often would say the pillow

    19 case would be changed?

    20 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.

    21 TOM HANEY: Okay. How about the rest of the

    22 day, the bottom tucked in sheets.

    23 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.

    24 TOM HANEY: Was there a particular day of the

    25 week that --

    0427

    1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.

    2 TOM HANEY: Okay. I mean, some folks are

    3 pretty much on a schedule.

    4 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm pretty laid back.

    5 TOM HANEY: How about Linda?

    6 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she did it once a week.

    7 I don't know what day she did it.

    8 TOM HANEY: So this particular sheet could be

    9 on its last day of the seven or -- the holiday it could

    10 be --

    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Longer.

    12 TOM HANEY: Was she expected to come in that

    13 day?

    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

    15 TOM HANEY: 26th.

    16 PATSY RAMSEY: She was supposed to come in.

    17 She was going to come on Friday. Wednesday was

    18 Christmas, so she was off on Christmas. She came

    19 Monday, Wednesday and Friday. She was there Monday

    20 because she helped me get ready for the party.

    21 TOM HANEY: When you were getting ready for

    22 the party did she do the laundry?

    23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. We were getting

    24 ready for the party, you know.

    25 TOM HANEY: Right.

    0428

    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Downstairs. She didn't come

    2 Wednesday because it was Christmas. She was going to

    3 come Friday after we had gone, and I left her a check

    4 because she (inaudible) cried she wanted money.

    5 TOM HANEY: But if she comes Monday,

    6 Wednesday and Friday, and obviously doesn't come

    7 because of Christmas on Wednesday, we have the sheets

    8 on at a minimum, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so three

    9 days.

    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

    11 TOM HANEY: The maximum number going back.

    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the next Friday.

    13 TOM HANEY: Or last Wednesday.

    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

    15 TRIP DEMUTH: Did JonBenet ever have nose

    16 bleeds at night?

    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I remember.

    18 Sometimes she might pick her nose, maybe cause it to

    19 bleed, but she wouldn't have one of those, you know,

    20 dry, you know, to hold her head back kind of thing.









    Check this out....

    http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.a...rticle&Id=1286


    Signs and Symptoms of Head Injuries That Alert The Need For Medical Care include:
    • Loss of consciousness, confusion, drowsiness
    • Inability to move any part of the body or weakness in an arm or leg
    • Dent, bruise, cut or blood on the scalp
    • Severe headache
    • Stiff neck
    • Vomiting
    • Blood or fluid that comes from the mouth, nose or ear
    • Loss of vision, blurred or double vision, pupils of unequal size
    • Convulsions
    Notice the very first one listed in loss of consciousness, which I believe happened to JB...and I believe thats when Patsy screamed (the scream that the neighbor heard)...and she started shaking JB frantically, trying to revive her (thats where the bruises on the sides of her head came from). Another one that I have reddened and bolded is BLOOD COMING FROM NOSE. Could this be the reason that there were blood stains on JB's pillow...(based on Tom Haney's questioning about stains on JB's Pillow and Trip Demuth's question to Patsy about JB having nosebleeds at night)? Was JB either struck in the head while in the bed, or was she placed there later....AND HENCE the blood on her pillow was from the nosebleed that she got, from the blow to the head? I believe that she was either struck while in the bed, or placed there later after the blow to the head...and THEN placed in the basement for the staged crime scene. I don't believe that the interviewers would have brought up stains on JB's pillow, or night time nosebleeds...if there hadn't been a reason. The link that I provided plainly states that a severe headwound (one that would require medical attention, which definately would have been JB"s case) will cause bleeding from the nose. I believe that this is what happened to JB that night. I am also quite positive that JB went into convulsions too...I have always thought this, before losing consciousness. These are SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF HEAD INJURIES THAT ALERT THE NEED FOR MEDICAL CARE....only problem with that is...the Ramsey's were afraid to get medical care, because one of them...I believe Patsy...was afraid of being arrested right there on the spot, in the ER, because SHE is the one that caused that injury. Doctors are not stupid....they would have figured it out. How in the world would she have explained that massive head injury? You know she heard the crack...it had to have been extremely loud....so she knew there was a bad fracture, and if she had of taken JB to the ER, they would have x-rayed her and found it out. What excuse would she have given them for such a horrendous wound? She was skipping and she fell? She was riding her bike, and she fell off of it? She fell down a whole flight of stairs. I mean, come on...how believable is THAT? But, thats what alot of IDI posters say, that she could have said...IF she did it. Do they not know that Doctors go to college for that, and they could tell by the injury, that a staircase didn't do it? Instead, they would have figured that it was some sort of tremendous blow to her head that was intentionally caused by one of her parents. So, what do the Ramsey's do? They stage a crime scene, and HOPE that they can fool people (which they did) and stay out of prison....OR, they can take JB to the ER, and lie to the Dr, who would have not believed their story...and for SURE been thrown in jail? Of course...IMO..they choose to stage an "intruder" crime scene...and hope and pray that it works. IT DID.....
     
  2. Loading...


  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,193
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    63

    Yes the blood may originate from a nose bleed or from a sexual assault? The question about the nose-bleed may be a polite way to lead into this topic?

    Nose bleeds, or from the mouth are common in serious head injuries, which are due to the build up of pressure inside the skull.

    Coroner Meyer appears discounts this possibility in his autopsy report:

    .
     
  4. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    She could have bled from her nose though...and the Ramsey's wiped it off when they wiped her down.
     
  5. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,193
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ames,

    Yes she could have, but would the first cause suspected not be her head blow, but Coroner Meyer seems to discount this, so they offer the parents a nose-bleed theory?

    mmm a nose-bleed on the same night she dies, seems too coincidental?


    I suspect the blood originates from something other than a nose-bleed, the investigators never liked telling the Ramsey's what their theories were anyway.

    .
     
  6. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes,but that's on the right side..the only side we see in the autopsy pics..what about her other nostril,on the left?I can't believe that much pressure coming down hard enough to cause a fracture to the bridge of her nose wouldn't cause the sinuses to bleed.I don't know,I'm not a Dr,just speculating.
     
  7. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,193
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    63
    JMO8778,

    Sure could be, I'm not ruling out a nose-bleed, just that the investigator line of questioning seems to be leading.


    .
     
  8. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes it can. Did you read the link that I posted about head wounds. Its says that severe ones can cause nose bleeds...which makes sense. I believe that this is what happened to JB. I believe that her head wound, caused her nose to bleed...and that she was in her bed when that happened. Whether she was placed there after the head blow, or was there during the head blow, I don't know.
     
  9. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not really, they obviously found some sort of blood stain on JB's pillow...or they wouldn't have brought that up. Why pull that from thin air...there had to be a reason for it. I believe too, that bloodstain on the pillow would be more likely from a nose bleed, than from a sexual assault. imo
     
  10. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you read the link that I posted?

    Signs and Symptoms of Head Injuries That Alert The Need For Medical Care include:
    • Loss of consciousness, confusion, drowsiness
    • Inability to move any part of the body or weakness in an arm or leg
    • Dent, bruise, cut or blood on the scalp
    • Severe headache
    • Stiff neck
    • Vomiting
    • Blood or fluid that comes from the mouth, nose or ear
    • Loss of vision, blurred or double vision, pupils of unequal size
    • Convulsions
    Severe head wounds cause nosebleeds. I don't think that JB just randomly had a nosebleed on the night that she died....that would be WAY to coincidental...but, I do believe that the head blow that she received that night, could have cause her nose to bleed....according to the article that I read, and posted the link.
     
  11. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    since it could have been from her ear as well,they must have had reason to believe that wasn't the case?
    PR was q'd about the bathroom drawers where she kept her med supplies...I'm guessing she used an alcohol wipe or similar to wipe away some evidence?
     
  12. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yep, it is quite possible that it DID come from the ear. It could have came from her mouth too...but I am guessing that it was either her nose or ear....and with a wound that size...it could have possibly been from BOTH her nose AND her ears. Remember in her interview, when she was asked about the syringes that were left out? Its quite possible that she had been frantically going through that drawer, looking for something such as alcohol wipes (which you KNOW she had, if she was using syringes), and grabbed the syringes to get them out of the way, so that she could find what she was looking for, in her med. supply drawer.
     
  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,193
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ames.

    Well I guess not, but have I researched head injuries and associated trauma, well I supose so, maybe not extensively enough, should I quote Coroner Meyer's opinion, I guess so:

    He is discounting hemorrhaic bleeding here?

    .
     
  14. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sounds like he is discounting hemorrhaic bleeding from her mouth....because of the dried artifact on her tongue, and the saliva on her cheek. IMO...according to the link that I provided...with a massive wound to her head, she would have been bleeding from either her nose, her ears, her mouth, or all of the above. Although, since no presence of hemorrhaic bleeding was found on her cheek area...and there was the mention of the artifact on her tongue and saliva on her cheek.... I am guessing either her nose or ears were bleeding. I saw a guy once get whacked in the head with a baseball bat, and he bled from his ears. I am quite possitive that after that massive of a blow to her head, that she was bleeding from her nose, or ears....or both. One more thing...I need to add...according to the link(s) that I found...fluid can come from the ears, nose, or mouth..and doesn't HAVE to be bloody....is this why there was mucous on her cheek?

    Blood or fluid that comes from the mouth, nose or ear

    And check out this link too....

    http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/head-injury

    Symptoms


    The signs of a head injury can occur immediately or develop slowly over several hours. Even if the skull is not fractured, the brain can bang against the inside of the skull and be bruised. (This is called a concussion.) The head may look fine, but complications could result from bleeding inside the skull.
    When encountering a person who just had a head injury, try to find out what happened. If he or she cannot tell you, look for clues and ask witnesses. In any serious head trauma, always assume the spinal cord is also injured.
    The following symptoms suggest a more serious head injury that requires emergency medical treatment:
    • Loss of consciousness, confusion, or drowsiness
    • Low breathing rate or drop in blood pressure
    • Convulsions
    • Fracture in the skull or face, facial bruising, swelling at the site of the injury, or scalp wound
    • Fluid drainage from nose, mouth, or ears (may be clear or bloody)
    • Severe headache
    • Initial improvement followed by worsening symptoms
    • Irritability (especially in children), personality changes, or unusual behavior
    • Restlessness, clumsiness, lack of coordination
    • Slurred speech or blurred vision
    • Inability to move one or more limbs
    • Stiff neck or vomiting
    • Pupil changes
    • Inability to hear, see, taste, or smell
    [​IMG]
     
  15. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In the drawing of how she was found,her head is turned to the left..yet all we see in the autopsy pics is the right side of her face..so it's more likely she bled from that side?

    edited to add,from the autopsy report:No scalp trauma is identified. The external auditory canals are patent and free of blood. The eyes are green and the pupils equally dilated. The sclerae are white. The nostrils are both patent and contain a small amount of tan mucous material.

    tan could mean old blood?
     
  16. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am thinking that with a blow to the head, that severe, she would have probably bled from BOTH ears and her nose...and then possibly wiped clean. IMO
     
  17. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I should read ahead..anyway,see my prior post.it says the external ears and canal were patent and free of blood...but I wonder about the inner ears.could they have bled,and the outer ears were wiped clean?
     
  18. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yep, I couldn't think of another reason for it to be tan. I found another link (and it is posted above for UKGUY) that says Severe head injury can cause fluid to come from the ears, nose or mouth...and that it doesn't HAVE to be blood.
     
  19. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is entirely possible. I just don't see, how with an injury that severe...that she didn't bleed from her ears or nose, or both. In the one link that I provided, it does say that the fluid that comes from the ears, nose or mouth, after a severe head injury...does NOT have to be blood...just fluid. It could be clear..in other words. I wonder if this is what was found on JB cheek. I am sure that if she did bleed from either or both of those places...and I am quite sure she did....that Patsy would have cleaned her up....(except she forgot to remove the blood stained pillow case, in her panic). It is possible too, that she bled from either her ears or nose...and fluid drained from one, too.
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You know, I have often thought that the bedroom was the scene of the crime.
     
  21. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't know if JB's head wound happened, and THEN she was placed in the bed....or if she was IN the bed WHEN it happened. But, yes, I believe as you do...that it was the scene of the crime...and then she was moved to the basement. I don't believe that the whole thing took place in the basement. During one of Patsy's interview, the interviewer asked her something about the curtains in JB's room, I believe they were above her bed...anyway, Patsy said.."I don't see any blood on them, do you?" What? NOBODY mentioned the word blood to her. And then in the same interview she was asked if JB ever had nosebleeds at night...and was also asked about a stain on JB's pillow case. Yep...sounds like the scene of the crime to me, too.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice