Disconnecting JAG-things that point to another killer

Discussion in 'Amber Dubois' started by sarx, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The possibility is still there that JAG (John Albert Gardner III) had nothing to do with Amber's murder. It seems like there is so much tunnel vision focusing on him that things could be being overlooked because of it.

    So, what points to someone else being the murderer? What is there that points to someone else entirely?

    (Not looking for a debate here on why it's JAG and nobody else. Let's try to explore all possibilities and cover all the bases.)
     
  2. Loading...


  3. SoCalSleuth

    SoCalSleuth Verified Expert

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Excellent thread! If we had more information this may be easier to accomplish! None of his many vehicles were reported as having been seen near the area at the time of the kidnapping. Although this doesn't point to someone else entirely, it's something!
     
  4. Nandee63

    Nandee63 New Member

    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sarx - I think you have a good point here. But, I also think it's simply not a coincidence that Amber is found so soon after Gardner is arrested for Chelsea's murder. Is he the person responsible for the "tip" to find Amber? IMO - LE has much more information than they are releasing, which must directly link JAG to Amber.
     
  5. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That very well may be true, but I think it's still a good idea to explore it all, and that's what this thread is for, looking at other possibilities.
     
  6. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,797
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Well, let's start with the obvious-the person supposedly seen with Amber just before she went missing does not fit JAG's description.
     
  7. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With all the people around that close to school it would also seem likely that she knew the person she left with and there wasn't a struggle (someone would have seen it). They searched her phone records and computer last year, no connection to JAG,
     
  8. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,797
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Meeting young girls on the internet doesn't appear to be JAG's style. As for Amber leaving voluntarily-since nobody saw her leave, we don't know if anybody would have seen it if there were a struggle. It doesn't really take long to pull a girl into a car-if that is what happened.
     
  9. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    no it does not but working with the walking with someone lead.
     
  10. SoCalSleuth

    SoCalSleuth Verified Expert

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I never thought that Amber was kidnapped on the road to school--way too much going on. I always thought she was nabbed right outside her home or very close by before she got to the main school road. I also think it's a possibility that she was offered a ride by someone she knew because it was drizzling out.
     
  11. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So you are thinking the people that claimed to have seen her just off school grounds didn't actually see her or the reported boy she was walking with?
     
  12. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,797
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    36
    What about witnesses who saw her?
     
  13. gaia227

    gaia227 I have never taken any exercise except sleeping an

    Messages:
    3,742
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Amber was seen by several people who knew her in the vicinity of the school. I think it is pretty safe to say she did make it to the school.
     
  14. SoCalSleuth

    SoCalSleuth Verified Expert

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IIRC, only 2 parents stated they saw her near the school -- as they were driving their own children to school. I believe they believed they saw her. However, it was drizzling, there was construction going on, this is a very heavily traveled road in the morning both with cars and with pedestrians, both these parents were driving and should have had their eyes on the road especially with the construction going on, Amber was wearing a black hoodie that day; and she was walking the same way they was driving so it can be safely assumed her face was turned forward and not looking toward the street. I can't imagine that a predator would take the chance and nab her on that street at that time of day--even with a gun. Too much going on for a predator to take a chance he might be caught, seen, etc. If someone saw it happen or an attempt, it would not be easy to get away fast or unnoticed. There were alot of "Amber sightings" after the fact and as we all know now, those sightings were not her either. As for the boy, I believe he was just someone walking down the street.
     
  15. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Left field thought, but what if she was almost to school, then remembered something she had forgotten, or saw the check (or something else) was missing, thought she dropped it, so turned around and headed back the way she came to try to locate it. That would put her somewhere else entirely. That would open the possibilities up to anyone taking her.
     
  16. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fore reference for anyone, if she took the road way, her path took her from her house, down a standard street, to a larger street (Vista) that ran past a Christian School on one side and the parking lot for that school on the other side, then to Broadway where (walking south)there are apartments on the west side, then a school field, then the bus driveway (where someone said they saw her), the football field, more school fields, then some school, a parking lot and the rest of the school. On the West side is a church, some houses, another church, some more houses and a non-school field followed by more houses. It's not what you'd call deserted at any time of the day.

    There are, however, several shortcuts that she could have taken, not the least of which is a drainage ditch that runs behind houses.

    My point being, does anyone know exactly how she walked to school? If you decide to discount the sightings near school, or assume she may have doubled back for some reason, that means the path she took could have made a difference.
     
  17. SoCalSleuth

    SoCalSleuth Verified Expert

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't know. It is possible that she backtracked or took a short cut--what kid doesn't shortcut it to school?
     
  18. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why did LE treat her like a runaway? Is there something in her history or family dynamics that would have made them think this (or was it just pure negligence?) What do we know about her?
    She was an honor student correct?
    She was in 4H (or FFA?)
    She rode horses (lessons, had her own, or just casually?)
    Had she dated anyone?
    There was mention of finding computer chat with older boys/men, was this ever said in a PC by LE?
    Family dynamics?
     
  19. jjenny

    jjenny Active Member

    Messages:
    25,797
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    36
    As far as I understand it, nothing would suggest she run away.
    From what has been reported, she wasn't yet interested in boys-so I presume no dating. I don't think they found anything on a computer indicating she was chatting with any older boys/men.
    I don't know if LE believed she run away-there just was no evidence something had happened, so it was easier to assume she run away.
     
  20. Tink56

    Tink56 New Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IIRC there were many reported Amber sightings in the days following her disappearance. That, coupled with the phone "ping", caused LE to initially treat her disappearance as a possible "run away."

    Also, IMO, Amber's family structure--divorced parents, single mom--influenced LE's stereotypical thinking about difficulties in single-parent homes. I don't think this tunnel vision was based on anything factual about Amber's behavior or activities. I also think the media played up her "black" clothing in its first reports. I don't know if anyone in LE or at the school contributed to this depiction.

    Amber was only a freshmen in a very large school. She was a good student, but had not yet had the opportunity to be a standout.
     
  21. sarx

    sarx Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

    Messages:
    6,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice