Discussion: Is TH responsible for Kyron's disappearance? #2(POLL ADDED)

[miabellamoure]

I feel she was involved, too, but I had never looked at it this way. There are lots of reports, confirmed and unconfirmed, about what went on the day Kyron went missing and after, all of them point to Terri's guilt but only one report (Terri is not a POI or a suspect) points to her innocence.

Report: Terri was the last person to be seen with Kyron and the last time he was seen was with her.
Assumption: An unseen person was the last person with Kyron.

Report: Terri failed two LDT's and walked out of another.
Assumption: She had some reason other than lying for failing the LDT's.

Report: Terri's cell phone pinged near Sauvie Island, though she claimed to be elsewhere.
Assumption: These pings are erroneous.

Report: Terri claimed to need the truck that day to pick up Kyron's project, but she did not pick it up after all.
Assumption: She did not claim that, she was confused, or she had a good reason for changing her plan.

Report: Kyron's teacher and others believed Kyron had an appointment on June 4th.
Assumption: The teacher misunderstood what Terri told her.

Report: Terri did not contest the R.O. or the divorce and has not fought for custody or visitation with her daughter. She has taken no step that would mean she'd have to speak under oath. She is not speaking to LE.
Assumption: She is afraid of being railroaded by LE.


Well, anyway, on and on. But what I don't see in this case are reports of anyone seeing Terri exiting the schoolgrounds alone, Terri shopping and running errands, Terri mentioning her daughter's earache at the time, someone actually seeing Terri at the gym on June 4th, Terri clearing up her timeline for June 4th, Kyron indeed having an appointment for a later Friday, Kyron with someone else after being seen with Terri, etc.

That we haven't seen reports of any of these things doesn't mean they didn't happen, but why would nothing concrete that has come out point away from Terri?

My thoughts as well...

My thoughts on this continue to be that we have no idea what LE has for possible evidence or what information is leading them in this direction. Yes we hear about cases where LE was wrong. I have confidence that with the FBI involved in this case that Law Enforcement is on the right path.

I am not naive there have been cases where they were wrong. But the FBI is not an organization to take lightly. If the direction is steered in this direction there is a big reason, and it has little to do with the intuitions of the bio-parents. That may be backing up their profiling, but there has to be more.

IMO It has to do with evidence that has been collected by the FBI and LE. We just don't know what that evidence is yet.

More of my thoughts as well...

There are other things that the family can do to help with the search efforts and keeping his face out there besides going out there and literally searching the woods themselves.

But I suppose she's kept Kyron in the news in her own way.

Just out of curiosity...what do we know "specifically" that TH has done with a constructive purpose in trying to locate Kyron? Did she help design a Find Kyron T-Shirt, Poster, Flier, etc? I'm interested to know what she has been involved with besides attending a couple LE & Family pressers & sometimes cooperating with LE.

Do you have an article in which Finster says Terri failed a LDT? If so, I'd appreciate a link. I was unable to find any. Only as you said, that she was taking another.

Not out of curiosity but, rather I have an old brain that can't remember sh:blushing:t...is there a link to where either DY or KH specifically state that TH "failed" any LDT's?

Btw, my vote...TH is responsible for a number of very bad things the most important is the disappearance of Kyron.

 

[Mamietwo]

Terri hired a criminal defense attorney. And not just anybody----quite THE guy! She now has an attorney to address her divorce, but first came Houze.

 

[Donjeta]

Do we have confirmation now that the backpack and coat were found in the classroom?

I don't think the teacher would necessarily have paid any attention to Kyron's coat and backpack during the day if they were stored with a number of other children's coats and backpacks. They count the heads, not the bags. Do teachers generally even recognize to whom all the coats and bags belong to? If leaving the items was planned to make it look like he should have been at school at the end of the day it was pretty unlikely that they'd be noticed.

But I dunno...If they were talking about Kyron being gone the teacher might have paid particular attention to his things being there, and the children might know which ones were his even if the teacher didn't know. If the teacher saw and recognized Kyron's stuff in the classroom it might have explained why she allegedly originally thought that he had just gone to the bathroom and would come back shortly because he would have taken his things home for the weekend if he wasn't going to return.

I'm no help because I can argue this both ways.

 

[Jo in Calif]

The only confirmed thing in this list is the sexting. I'm not willing to convict someone on that.



It wouldn't necessarily stick out, but I think it would be a HUGE risk. All it would take is for someone she knew to see her and wave or stop to say hello or chit-chat and then she'd be nailed to the wall. Caught red handed. And she'd either have to abandon her plan or be in jail right now.

Some say she would have just abandoned the plan if she had been seen, but IMHO that is the kind of thinking where toddlers play peek-a-boo and think if they can't see you then you can't see them. There was NO WAY for her to be sure no one saw her, even if they didn't think anything of it at the time, even if she didn't notice them. Haven't you ever waved to a friend but they didn't see you? Or tried to catch up with someone who pulled away before they saw you? No one did see her, but there was no way for her to be certain. And if one person had watched her get in the truck with Kyron, it would be all over now.

Not saying it's impossible, I just can't make myself believe she is so stupid as to take that risk and get caught sexting, but is such a criminal mastermind that she pulled off this crime with NO physical evidence left behind. It doesn't fit.

That's why I'm still on this dang fence! It is not comfortable for opinionated me...I like knowing what I know!

We need a fence-sitting smiley.

If in fact this is what happened, IMO, she was taking a risk, but none of that happened, IMO, seeing someone she knew. If in fact she had told the teacher of a Dr. appt, which I sure LE has checked on, the school was aware that Kyron was not going to be at school. All she had to say was , oh, I meant it was for the 11th. This is my opinion how she got him out of the school, and it's anyone's guess what she might have done with him, after she got him out.

 

[Donjeta]

Miabelleamoure wrote: Not out of curiosity but, rather I have an old brain that can't remember ...is there a link to where either DY or KH specifically state that TH "failed" any LDT's?

Q: Can you describe how Terri Horman handled the polygraph requests? I believe you have said to others that Terri walked out of a second polygraph, and then waited about 10 days before taking a third? Can you clarify this for us?

A: She fully cooperated and took the first polygraph then subsequently vented her failed results to all family, friends, and law enforcement at the house. A few days later she cooperated and went to take a second polygraph test but got up and walked out before the machine portion of the test could be administered... again by her own statement to family, friends, and law enforcement at the house ...She continually pushed back and refused to repeat the second test for several days (approx. 8-10) before going to take the test and then once again coming back to the house and venting to all listeners.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_describes_how_ter.html

http://www.katu.com/news/98077834.html
“I think everyone knows she took two polygraphs,” Kaine said. “She has not passed those polygraphs.”

 

[BringKyronHome]

Do we have confirmation now that the backpack and coat were found in the classroom?

I don't think the teacher would necessarily have paid any attention to Kyron's coat and backpack during the day if they were stored with a number of other children's coats and backpacks. They count the heads, not the bags. Do teachers generally even recognize to whom all the coats and bags belong to? If leaving the items was planned to make it look like he should have been at school at the end of the day it was pretty unlikely that they'd be noticed.

But I dunno...If they were talking about Kyron being gone the teacher might have paid particular attention to his things being there, and the children might know which ones were his even if the teacher didn't know. If the teacher saw and recognized Kyron's stuff in the classroom it might have explained why she allegedly originally thought that he had just gone to the bathroom and would come back shortly because he would have taken his things home for the weekend if he wasn't going to return.

I'm no help because I can argue this both ways.

But see here's the rub...he WAS there and she saw him. She had to at least have been surprised that she didn't see him at 8:45 (if in fact she didn't). I think the very first thought would have been to check for his things. Because she saw him when he dropped them off...if they were still there, then he SHOULD have been also.

 

[Mamietwo]

Do we have confirmation now that the backpack and coat were found in the classroom?

I don't think the teacher would necessarily have paid any attention to Kyron's coat and backpack during the day if they were stored with a number of other children's coats and backpacks. They count the heads, not the bags. Do teachers generally even recognize to whom all the coats and bags belong to? If leaving the items was planned to make it look like he should have been at school at the end of the day it was pretty unlikely that they'd be noticed.

But I dunno...If they were talking about Kyron being gone the teacher might have paid particular attention to his things being there, and the children might know which ones were his even if the teacher didn't know. If the teacher saw and recognized Kyron's stuff in the classroom it might have explained why she allegedly originally thought that he had just gone to the bathroom and would come back shortly because he would have taken his things home for the weekend if he wasn't going to return.

I'm no help because I can argue this both ways.

I know what you mean about being able to argue this both ways. I was looking for confirmation that the backpack and jacket were in the classroom too. I remember in the beginning I thought it was said that both were on his seat in the classroom. The reason I was looking for confirmation was that when a poster on another thread had asked about whether there was a lunch made for Kyron that day (darn good question), I thought it should be in the backpack and that might have been proof one way or the other of something. I'm so dizzy thinking about the "what ifs" in this case I can't even tell you what the lunch would or would not signify! But I'd like to know, also, if there was a lunch made for him that day.

 

[gwenabob]

But see here's the rub...he WAS there and she saw him. She had to at least have been surprised that she didn't see him at 8:45 (if in fact she didn't). I think the very first thought would have been to check for his things. Because she saw him when he dropped them off...if they were still there, then he SHOULD have been also.

Except she saw Terri there too and was under the impression he went with Terri to the doctor. She had no reason to expect him to be there at that time. She may have thought he would come back after his appointment. We have not heard from the teacher yet. We don't know what Terri told her. AFAIC, the police are NOT focused on the teacher or the school, so it is unfair for us to throw them under the bus.

 

[miabellamoure]

I know what you mean about being able to argue this both ways. I was looking for confirmation that the backpack and jacket were in the classroom too. I remember in the beginning I thought it was said that both were on his seat in the classroom. The reason I was looking for confirmation was that when a poster on another thread had asked about whether there was a lunch made for Kyron that day (darn good question), I thought it should be in the backpack and that might have been proof one way or the other of something. I'm so dizzy thinking about the "what ifs" in this case I can't even tell you what the lunch would or would not signify! But I'd like to know, also, if there was a lunch made for him that day.

That would be very interesting to know...could play into the theories of premeditated or not...but of course, she could have also made a lunch just to cement her alibi so, it could really play both ways in the end...:banghead:

Don't you just wish TH would end this madness and just fess up like a big girl and take her licks..."IF" she's involved (lol...added for my fence sitters )

 

[BringKyronHome]

Except she saw Terri there too and was under the impression he went with Terri to the doctor. She had no reason to expect him to be there at that time. She may have thought he would come back after his appointment. We have not heard from the teacher yet. We don't know what Terri told her. AFAIC, the police are NOT focused on the teacher or the school, so it is unfair for us to throw them under the bus.

I'm not throwing them under the bus...what I'm saying is that the teacher saw him there at 8-something...by 8:45 he was gone...

She had to have been thinking, why show up at all? Terri was there the day before, right, so what's the point? She couldn't have known for SURE he was going to be at an appointment. IF Terri did do this, she couldn't have come right out and said perfectly clear - we are leaving for an appointment...that would have foiled her whole plan, right?

And according to Terri's friend & mom what Terri said was in reference to another day...so bare minimum it was confusing (and for the sake of argument let's say this was carefully executed to be that way, to the point that she was confident that Mrs Porter would be sufficiently confused)...ok, so Mrs Porter would have had to be at least somewhat surprised that Kyron was not in the tour:

Either Terri was still with Kyron in the fair (which I'm not surew was allowable) or he was gone...the very first thought she would have had, would have been to look at where he left his things...he had a T-shirt on and it was cold/rainy out...if the coat is gone, then so is Kyron...but it was still there.

So where did her thoughts go next...

Because don't forget, if this is part of her plan, Terri needs to be sure that whatever Mrs P does won't interfer...

How in the world could she be sure Mrs Pe wouldn't make a phone call...and honestly I can't understand why she didn't...so how does Mrs P get past the fact that Kyron came up to the school for a few minutes, dropped off his things and left for an assumed appointment without his coat, and then never returned...how in the world does Terri make sure that this is what happens...does she have some kind of mind meld capability? Particularly since the most logical thing to do in a situation like this would be to follow-up. It was a chaotic morning, his things are there, yet he is not, it seems more than reasonable that a follow-up SHOULD have been made, so what they heck would she have done if they called her at 9:00 double checking the appointment (because afterall it was a confusing communication), or at 10:00 when they were sure he was no longer with Terri touring the fair, or at 12:00 when he hadn't returned yet?

Terri should have reported his absence to the office, did she normally do this? Did Mrs Porter check that? What would you think if Terri called each & every time Kyron was absent or had an appointment, yet there was no call this day? How would Terri know that on this day it wouldn't cause alarm...

I just don't get how someone can think that leaving the coat/backpack was a deversion tactic when by all accounts it should have sent up a red flare, yet didn't.

Does that make sense?

 

[mydailyopinions]

Does anyone know if Kyron normally rode the bus in the mornings? I've looked and can't find it anywhere other than for that morning..

 

[cypress]

Also, with regard to the doctor's appointment, and this is huge for me, if Kyron went to the doctor and the teacher believed that to be the case, thus explaining his morning absence, why wouldn't the teacher have expected Kyron to return? He wasn't sick -- he was at school the day before and the morning of the science fair. What kind of doctor's appointment lasts all day? Most of the time, if you have an early doctor's appointment, you are checked into school. Also, and I always come back to this, but TP witnessed the teacher saying Kyron was getting a drink of water or in the bathroom when questioned about his absence. Nothing about a doctor's appointment. Granted, we haven't heard anything directly from the teachers, but if there was damning evidence, I'm sure the ever present "reliable sources" would've uncovered it.

Here again, if you believe Terri's guilty, she goes to all the trouble to take Kyron to school, hoping everyone will believe he's been snatched by some pedophile, only to directly implicate herself by purposefully confusing the teacher about the doctor's appointment? It's a direct link to her, something she was hoping to avoid if she was using "dropping Kyron off at school" as an alibi. And TP's statement is invalid, why? He witnessed the teacher explain away Kyron's absence and the explanation didn't involve a doctor's appointment.

Isn't it likely there really was a doctor's appointment at some future date? Kyron was having some issues following directions and transitioning between the two homes, per Desiree and Kaine. Terri had paperwork related to the doctor's appointment that she gave the teacher. It's not uncommon for a child undergoing testing for ADD/ADHD to have paperwork filled out by their teacher, and it seems like Kyron may have had some symptoms. The paperwork fits with him being tested for ADD/ADHD. Isn't is possible that the teacher was confused or that the teachers and the school are using the doctor's appointment to cover their butts?

I just have a hard time fathoming Terri being thoughtful enough and daring enough to make the school her alibi, and then directly implicating herself with the doctor's appointment. And then there's the lack of witnesses to see Kyron leave with Terri (in fact, there are witnesses stating the direct opposite, that Terri left alone) as well as the lack of physical evidence.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

I'm not throwing them under the bus...what I'm saying is that the teacher saw him there at 8-something...by 8:45 he was gone...

respectfully snipped

I do not believe for a second that a school board appointed lawyer is not advising the school and it's staff. I would imagine this lawyer would be present for LE questioning of any person who works for or with the school. It is certainly in the school's best interest that TH be the guilty party. JMO

 

[charminglane]

I keep going back to Casey getting a tattoo while her precious daughter Caylee was "missing."--Relating it to "sexting" while your stepson is missing.
Not a care in the world.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Does anyone know if Kyron normally rode the bus in the mornings? I've looked and can't find it anywhere other than for that morning..

Yes it was said in an article early on that normally he rides the bus, but on that day wanted to go early for the fair.

It's also been said a couple times by D & K that he LOVED riding the bus.

 

[goatman]

Based on the fact that she has not spoken or tried to help in any way lately to find Kyron, I do believe she is involved. Even if you're being blamed, fine, defend yourself, speak up..or don't..BUT do keep helping in the search for your son that you raised and were the primary caregive for, for most of his life. If Kyron was truly her focus, if she truly felt sad, cared at all...she'd be helping. Maybe she doesn't know where he is or what happened, but, like KH, DY & TY.. I would think she'd be trying to get the focus on Kyron and keep helping to find him.

For me, if I was being blamed but was innocent, I would defend myself but not make myself the focus. I'd still be out there trying to find my child. So despite anything else, her character, mfh plot, the sexting, the polygraphs, the evidence LE has through cell, emails, computer..etc...her lack of involvement speaks volumes to me.

Not only would her attorney advise against this, but I don't think LE would want her involved either. IF she is guilty, who's to say she wouldn't take the opportunity to clean up evidence, plant false evidence, lead people in the wrong direction, move his body, etc.? I think this had a lot to do with LE adamantly refusing to allow random citizens to help in the search, too.

Of course if she's innocent but because of being essentially convicted in the eyes of ... well ... everyone, anything she found at this point would be considered suspicious and only hurt her defense.

Calliope I don't necessarily mean physically finding him, but just helping in getting his name out, making him the focus. Even prior to her hiring an attorney, it was all bout her. She was being treated unfairly, she failed the polygraphs, talking about the highlights in her hair being too orange, when she defended herself in posts it was all about her, nothing about Kyron, just constantly defending herself. I do understand your point though and thank you for sharing that. :smile:

Maybe, her silence is a way to keep the focus on Kyron. Let's say she is innocent, with her silence and refusal to make public announcements/appearances and to discus everything and the kitchen sink she is "taking it". By not being in the public arena she is encouraging the public to NOT focus on her, and she is denying them more fodder.The sexting ect. was all done in PRIVATE and while not morally okay with me, it WAS PRIVATE. She didn't turn her life into a soap opera-we have (with material provided by her friends and family).

We don't know what things she has done to help find Kyron...and I doubt we will get a presser telling us, I just don't see DY/KH coming out and saying "yeah, TH wanted to do this...and this...and this...but we told her get the fudge away"

Maybe I am an optimist, but until told otherwise...I am going to believe that she has helped. Why not believe? If I were guilty I would do everything possible to make people think I was innocent...which means helping out.

Honestly, the only thing in my personal opinion that could possibly point to her guilt is the MFH plot-which has so many holes in it (least of all the botched sting). Everything else points to her not prescribing to the same morals as I...not being a 'moral' person doesn't make one guilty...

 

[mydailyopinions]

Yes it was said in an article early on that normally he rides the bus, but on that day wanted to go early for the fair.

It's also been said a couple times by D & K that he LOVED riding the bus.

Thank you!

 

[BeanE]

Does anyone know if Kyron normally rode the bus in the mornings? I've looked and can't find it anywhere other than for that morning..

Press conference of June 12. The info was provided to Shults from Kyron's parents.

Bootsy, his cat, would follow him to the school bus stop every day.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Family-answers-publics-questions-about-Kyron-96310184.html


June 5 presser, LE stated that Kyron rides the bus every morning except when there's a special event.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5328340&postcount=13"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Search for a possible POI - Summary of statements from LE[/ame]

 

[angelmom]

If in fact this is what happened, IMO, she was taking a risk, but none of that happened, IMO, seeing someone she knew. If in fact she had told the teacher of a Dr. appt, which I sure LE has checked on, the school was aware that Kyron was not going to be at school. All she had to say was , oh, I meant it was for the 11th. This is my opinion how she got him out of the school, and it's anyone's guess what she might have done with him, after she got him out.

But how could she even begin to guess that no one would see her? It's a pretty crappy plan to just HOPE no one sees you.

And then what does she say? She can't just suddenly remember that the appointment is for the next week and march him back into the school. If she says, "Oh we're on our way to an appt." then what does she tell Kyron? There is no appointment! What if he told Kaine? "Hey, Mom took me from school today and told Mrs. Jones I had a doctor appointment but we really just went to the grocery store and the gym!"

There is also a risk that the teacher will vividly remember and be SURE that Terri said she was taking him to the doctor. Obviously that is not the case, or they wouldn't have spent so much time searching in and around the school for a child who wandered away.

There is a risk Kyron would have told someone, anyone, that he had an appointment and would/would not be back later for the talent show. Obviously there has been no witness who could say that for the same reasons.

There is a risk that the teacher could have been unsure and called Terri on her cell (all three of my kids' schools have mine, my DH's, and all 4 grandparents' numbers). Just to double check that she had him. How could Terri even begin to guess that the teacher wouldn't check? I know it was a crazy day but, having taught this age, I would be even more cautious b/c it was abnormal. I would be counting (like the parent volunteer did) regularly and wondering...hmmm...did Terri take him or is he in the gym and hasn't even noticed we came back to the room? ESPECIALLY with a kid who has trouble with directions and might get distracted.

The fact is that somehow Kyron left the school without being seen, but I don't know how anyone could have planned that. That's what makes me lean toward a SO who just happened to spot Kyron on his own for a minute.

This is what keeps me on the fence...I just can't picture any way that it makes sense.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I feel TH may or may not know anything. The fact she has lied to me doesn't really mean that much. I say this because she could just be a compulsive liar, lots of people out there are, and lying about things and confabulating, way before Kyron went missing!
As difficult and horrible this must be for the bio mother, my question would be, would you trust the two people that cheated behind your back with each other to raise your baby? They proved to be untrustworthy with their affair. She went through all of that, and then said ok. now you can have my little boy! Wether she was sick or not, couldn't she have let a grandparent help with his care until she got better? I would of asked my mother for help with that, rather than trust the two people that had made my life a misery.
I also feel Kyron's mother would have had good grounds because of her husband's affair ,to gain full custody of her son, with letting him have the access visits.
What broke my heart the most was to hear on NG last night that Kyron cried to his mother, could he please go and live with her? How awful now for what these circumstances this has brought about for that beautiful little boy, my heart breaks for him, wherever he might be.
I hope and Pray that bio mom is right, that he is alive somewhere, and that she will have him safe in her arms soon.