Discussion of Forensic Evidence

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Salem, Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    This was originally posted by Colomon on Dec 31st, 2008 in the General Discussion thread:

    I would start a new thread but I have a feeling it would die a slow death. There are people that have a really hard time speculating about "certain" things. So, here for you to check out....

    http://maddiemaccann.hyves.nl/forum/..._DNA_HAAR_ENZ/

    Basically:

    In the analysed samples from other locations:

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter K, present in 16 samples, (1 in the Residencia Liliana, 13 in vehicle Volkswagen, 1 in the Renault and l in the Passat) and identical to that of Michaela Walczuch (MW) and to that of Luis Filipe Monteiro Ferro (LFMF), meaning those samples were from those persons or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letters M e M*, present in 49 samples, (35 in the Residencia Liliana, 13 in the vehicle Volkswagen and 1 in the bathroom of the apartament in Burgau), and identical to that of Robert James Queriol Eveleight Murat (RQMU), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter R*, present in one sample from the vehicle Volkswagen, and identical in HVI, to that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa (NFPC) - letter R, meaning that sample was from that person or an individual of the same amternal bloodline.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter S, present in 2 samples, (apartment in Burgau), and identical to that of Jane Michelle Tanner (JT), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

    Look what Ironside found: http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewto...st=0&sk=t&sd=a *page 6, third post from the top*
    This entire thread is interesting

    __________________
     
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  3. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Who's car was the Volkswagon? Murat's?

    What is the apartment in Burgau?

    Who is Maria Ferro? A former tenant of Apt 5-A?

    From the article that is linked above:

    Fourth: The mitochondrial DNA study revealed [​IMG] :

    In the analysed samples from apartament 5-A of the Ocean Club:

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter B1, present in one sample, and identical to that of Maria Irene Trovao Ferro (IF), meaning that sample was from her or an individual of the same maternal bloodline.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letters C e C*, present in 53 samples, and identical to that of Kate Healy (KH), mother of the victim and to that of Jose Maria Batista Roque (JMBR), meaning those sample were from those persons or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter F, present in 3 samples, and identical to that of Vltor Manuel Martins (VM), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter G, present in one sample, and identical to that of Matthew David Oldfield (MO), meaning that sample was from that person or an individual of the same maternal bloodline.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter I, present in one sample, and identical to that of David Anthony Payne (DP), meaning that sample was from that person or an individual of the same maternal bloodline.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letters N e N*, present in 24 samples, and identical to that of Gerald Mccann (GM), father of the victim, meaning those sample were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines.

    - The Haplotype identified by the letter O. present in 2 samples, and identical to that of Russell James O'Brien (RJ[​IMG] , meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines.

    Where are the women of 5A - no samples from Kate, Jane, Rachel or Fiona? Why?


    So many questions are raised in this report. WOW!

    Salem
     
  4. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    Reference sample of blood

    JRB/1 Madeleine McCann

    From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1).


    Could this possibly mean that Madeleine was neither Gerry's nor Kate's? Possible IVF from donor egg & sperm?
     
  5. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    I don't know Barnaby - I took it to mean that they were able to get a complete DNA sample of Maddie, not just the mitochrondia that shows the maternal link, but I could be wrong.

    Salem
     
  6. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    I don't know either Salem, I hope someone can throw light on it
     
  7. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    Interesting early article (5/7/07)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551349/Mark-Maddys-birthday-with-renewed-search.html

    From that article:

    Nine people, all thought to be British, have been questioned - including the McCanns, who were re-interviewed into the early hours of yesterday morning. Three of the tourists - a man and two women - were interrogated for nearly eight hours, the Correio da Manha daily reported.
    Quoting unnamed criminal police sources, the paper said the British tourists at the resort held "the key to the case" and that the abduction appeared to have been organised from Britain.
    The Britons are likely to have been shown CCTV images that centre around a blonde woman. Residents of the nearby village Burgau said they were shown stills of two separate groups of three people - both including a blonde woman.
    In one case, she was with a man of about 40 with shoulder-length brown hair and an older woman - perhaps in her 60s. The second set of stills featured a blonde woman with two men, both with short hair. Police also asked about a couple who stayed in an apartment in Burgau, again including a blonde woman.
    Sniffer dogs have been back in action around the apartment in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was snatched. According to local reports, the dogs returned to the same nearby apartment several times, prompting police to question the couple who lives there.
     
  8. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    This is rather mind-boggling, Colomom and Salem! :eek:

    I'm slow on things, but does this mean that they found DNA in the original apartment from every man in the group, but none of the women?

    And from Colomom's original post, they found Jane Tanner's DNA in the Burgau apartment - implying she was around alot? I'm trying to figure out why that would be strange . . . unless it was found in a strange place, or at a time when she wasn't supposed to be there? Or . . . is there something I'm missing? (Of course, I'm always suspicious of Jane Tanner, so I could believe almost anything about her - my mind is running wild here...)

    And as far as Madeleine's DNA - oh my gosh - will they ever explain this to anyone? :waitasec:
     
  9. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    Hi ThoughtFox, I'm going over to 3A's to read up on this, but I think the deal is this.

    Robert Murat's sister either owns or runs a Bed 'n Breakfast in Burgau, together with her husband. At first glance it looks like there is DNA evidence several of the T9 spent some time there.

    Once I hitched onto this case I was stuck and read everything I could. That included pulling up the webpage for that B & B complete with several photos. The Everleigh's were the couple. At first we heard they owned it and then later it came out they just ran it, so don't know that for positive.

    But the other thing I remember so well was at first in the script telling about the place it said Adults Only. At that point we didn't think much about that, but into the summer when the case became an international feast for bloggers, that phrase was deleted from the script.

    I tried to locate that web page early in 2008 and couldn't find it. At least the normal search words I could think of didn't work. But I wanted to look at the photos again. There was one photo of the bar with several people standing and sitting around. Now I would be able to recognize any of our players in the case. xox
     
  10. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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    Do you know the name of the B&B ?
    Do you know his sisters name ?
    Im happy to go googling to look as well :)
     
  11. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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  12. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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  13. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    So both JT and RM's DNA were found in the apt at Bargu. Very interesting and what an upset to my way of thinking about this case.......

    Scandi thank you for the info on the B&B and Jane - thank you for finding the links. My jaw has fallen to the floor......

    Salem
     
  14. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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  15. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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    You mean i found it ????? That is the right place ?????????
    Wow now my jaw has hit the floor LOL

    The Madeleine McCann case has had my interest for a long time....Im not really following this thread though ;) lol I must admit Ive let my interest slip due to Caylee and some other cases.
     
  16. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    Hello Jane,

    I am a bit nervous about laying it out there but, just briefly...

    There have been rumors of "parties" of an adult nature going on as an explanation of why the children were so "absent" from the holiday. Also the possibility of certain (possibly very powerful) persons being there that we do not know about. Also the possibility that the government covering up the whole mess to try and avoid a scandal regarding the NHS.

    From very early on we have read about "swingers", inappropriate sexual references to children, people being "very into each other", etc.

    While this behavior does not mean that a person is a child murderer or abuser the "secrecy" calls into question everything we have been told.

    Hey Salem....I have also read that the JT hair findings have been "discounted" and said to have been an error. This really bugs me because how often are DNA results "corrected"? I have always thought that it is practically impossible to screw up DNA results. To go back and say they were mistaken....now that is suspicious.

    Anyway, finding RM's hair there is logical, JT's is not.

    I wish I could help with the DNA stuff but it all looks like math to me and I hate math...

    ETA: Good find on the Salsalito Guesthouse!!
     
  17. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    colomom - where did you see that JT's DNA was discounted from the B.Apt? This is not the first rumor we have heard that RM and the O'Bs knew each other, but IIRC the speculation was that they knew each other from the town that O'B's lived in. Apparently RM has a relative or something that also lives there and he went to visit with the relative.

    I'm not so good at this DNA stuff either, but until I can see why they are discounting JT's hair, I'm not buying it.

    Something was going on with these people - something that has kept 9 people from telling the truth and coming clean and caused at least one person to out right lie. I have always shied away from the "swinger" aspect of this case, but honestly, I am now 2nd guessing myself........

    Salem
     
  18. Gma Kat

    Gma Kat Wantonly distributing my opinion........

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    Just when I thought this case couldn't confuse me more....
    I've gotta admit that the "swinger" and even a pedaphile ring are no longer beyond my realm of belief now. Recently I learned that someone I have known for decades is part of an extensive swinger group that is into some really - disgusting stuff! The ability to keep this kind of secret is what scares me. People who can live these double lives are capable of things I simply can't wrap my head around and therefore I believe anything is possible. The DNA info just really smells fishy - I hate fishy...
     
  19. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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    Good God ! well that is the first I have heard of that side of things ! Fee Free to PM and lay it on a bit more for me ;)

    My opinion has always been that the parents liked to party with their friends (gee I wasnt that far off by the sounds ;) ) and that the children were sedated at night.
    That Madeleine being older knew her parents were *gone* and was kicking up a stink, especially that night that the neighbor above heard her
    I think they either

    A) Gave her more meds and it killed her
    or
    B) Gave her the meds or more meds and she fell and hit her head

    I definitely do NOT believe the intruder theory (same as the Ramseys) I think that they are professional medical people who were frightened of having their licenses pulled and therefore the Lifestyle that they were accustomed to also yanked and so went into cover up mode.
    In their eyes they believe it was a accident....so they can hide the remorse of what they did.
    They probably have her buried somewhere nice (I hope) and possibly even visit her. (will visit her)

    Apparently in European countries like this it is quite the norm to leave your children at *home* and step out whilst they are asleep....

    Is there any proof of the *other stuff*

    And is that the place that you guys were looking for > is that any of them in the bar photo ?


     
  20. anne11

    anne11 New Member

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    I would just like to say the it is not the norm in European countries to leave your children without appropriate supervision. Thats just an arrogant excuse used by the McCanns.
     
  21. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    JaneInOz, no it is not the norm in Europe for parents to leave their children unattended, noone I know does that & indeed it is very common in the warmer parts of Europe to see large families including the children dining out at night either in restaurants or in their gardens.
    There are exceptions to every rule & the McCann party were that exception, no doubt others do it but I am sure no more than in any other country, it certainly is not the norm!
     
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