Discussions on Formal Sentencing Hearing - Jodi Arias #10

[Caylee Advocate]

I can't figure why JSS granted her an exparte hearing to talk about ridding JA of Nurmi, what's the point? Did her appellate attny suggest it might be easier to win with ineffectual counsel if she could get him off her case before she's sentenced and the books are closed on the trial? And why, for pete's sake, is *anything* being kept secret any more?! It's over, finito, pack yer bags Marge, all aboard the Perryville Express!

I see AZL is online, so maybe she can give an opinion on this. Would CMJA even have an appellate attorney yet? HELP!!!!

 

[Paintr]

This is hysterical :laughcry:
...Does anyone else find this as funny as I do?
Good q's steelman for being a bit :tipsy:

I was already giggling at 'sort of shy'. :what:

Strangely I had never noticed that about Steelman before. :biggrin:

 

[Nore]

She hasn't been sentenced yet! Does she know one can wait years for an appeal?
I wonder if Nurmi or wilmott is appellate qualified.

 

[5bigfish5]

I think she looked very disappointed at the hung jury. She knew her worldwide fame had just vanished.

I knew for SURE at that moment Jodi had lost everything she had ever hoped for.

GREAT MOMENT!

 

[Fuskier]

Different IQ tests show different scores. The WAIS-111 test given by Dr. Demarte have ranges from
85-115 Average
115-129 Above average Bright
130-144 Moderately gifted
145-159 Highly gifted
160-179 Exceptionally gifted
180- up Profoundly gifted

Standford-Binet test 2005 Edition (I took this test (2nd Edition in the late sixties, as most HS
( kids did at that time.)

80-89 Low Average
90-109 Average
110-119 High Average
120-129 Superior
130-144 Gifted or Very Advance
145-160 Very Gifted
161 & Up Genius

There are other IQ tests but none of them really give a totally accurate measure of intelligence. Example: The ability to minimize emotional and belief bias on judgment.
The ability to think in the present as opposed to the past or the ability to use
intuition to solve a problem These are all valid aspects of intelligence which an IQ test
overlooks and therefore cannot act as a true representation and measure of intelligence
Just for the record, I scored higher than JA did and I don't think of myself as a genius like Einstein. I scored very high in math and science, not so much in the fine arts like reading comprehension and literature. Although I read all the time, mostly fiction. LOL These tests have changed thru the years and the scores accordingly. They say Einstein had an IQ of 162, but at that time the scoring was different and I believe today it would be a higher number. JA was Average and that's a fact. I don't know what TA's was but I believe he utilized his intelligence to better himself whereas JA utilized hers to manipulate people. Her art was average, mostly tracing and copying other peoples work. Her singing is average, my sister sings better. Her photographic work consists of using a computer photo program to edit photos, mostly hers. Anyone can use a digital camera. The camera does all the work. My Grandfather took pictures in the war for our government and he had an old camera and developed his own pictures. He was photographer but made his living as an engineer on the Union Pacific RR. JA was a waitress and nothing more. She was unable to advance herself because of her personality disorder and her narcissism not for lack of intelligence just education.

Thank you for this post. We need to think critically about IQ testing IMO. They are not all encompassing of a person's intellectual ability. There are many other variables which we don't know how to incorporate yet. IQ testing as a general guideline is helpful. IQ can change over the course of a lifetime. In the case above, there appears to be well developed areas i.e. nimble cognitive functioning and verbal skills mixed with areas under developed i.e. reading at 8th grade level, emotional deficits, etc. Psychotherapy seems to have a grasp of the pathological areas in personality which also influence results, but we don't yet know how to combine these variables. Hypothetically, if research conducted an MRI, CT scan and/or dissection of a certain brain, after death, we may find that certain areas had developed disproportionately greater and other areas may be under developed i.e. lack of integrated functioning. Brain neurology alters over a lifetime and influences personality development as well as interpretation of environmental factors. In the real world if a person grows up to be a 'deviant and dangerous' adult and becomes a 'risk to the safety' of others, then as a society, we have a responsibility to remove them to protect the community. Just a few thoughts. My opinion only.

 

[5bigfish5]

LOL, ja's misuse of $10 words: who here remembers Norm Crosby and his schtick of malapropism* - the misuse of words that sound similar. *Because I'm not as intelligent as ja, I had to look it up the long way, lol - I couldn't remember the word for it and googled Norm Crosby. I always remember a commercial he did talking about the "lush vegetation, all the bushes drink" (aaahahahahaha! - love that man!)

She tries too hard to sound smart and it's unintentionally funny :laugh::giggle::lol::laughcry:

I am a crossword freak, but IF I EVER see anything resembling "(de)/edify", I will go off.


Anyone ever figure out why she is so stuck on that word?

 

[Val1]

I posted earlier test scores from the WAIS III test that Demarte gave to JA. I got the information on the web site for WAIS III Tests. They vary a bit from the ones posted by TexMex but basically they are all in the same area. Psychology Today gives a description of 68% of the public will score in the average range and they say it is 15 plus or 15 minus of a l00, that being 85-115 but say it is subjective. So it is basically all over the map. JA, in my opinion is average in intelligence and a little above it in vocabulary and possibly in reading comprehension but overall this girl lacks a lot. Not in the Bundy class at all. The GED she took in jail will show how well she did on the test, I would be interested to know how well she did.

She claimed she learned Spanish in jail but in her manifesto she claimed she was fluent in Spanish, and that was before she spent any time in jail. I seem to remember her saying she studied Spanish in HS. Most of us had language classes in HS. I had French and Spanish. But the thing is she is all over the place on where and when she learned Spanish. If she spent any time at all in Costa Rica she had to have picked up some. But as far as her IQ test. You need to give this test at least 3 times in different time periods to get an accurate score and then like the PT says, its subjective. What ever the heck they mean by that.

Wasn't it Abe that testified that she spoke Spanish fluently? I recall someone had related a scenario where she had impressed them with her fluency in it... I'm guessing it would have been before the magic panties incident.

 

[samspace070]

She's so brilliant she just makes up words.

"De-edify"

"Green WITCH time"

In her manifesto she used that edify over and over again. She must like that one. LOL

 

[Val1]

I am a crossword freak, but IF I EVER see anything resembling "(de)/edify", I will go off.


Anyone ever figure out why she is so stuck on that word?

Iirc it was mentioned often in the PPL lessons according to her journal ... something about how to sell effectively.

 

[samspace070]

Wasn't it Abe that testified that she spoke Spanish fluently? I recall someone had related a scenario where she had impressed them with her fluency in it... I'm guessing it would have been before the magic panties incident.

I think you are right, it was Abe who said that.

 

[Nore]

Yes, and I thought she's really misguided if she thinks she can teach inmates Spanish. This prison isn't in New England.

ETA: I don't want any misunderstandings. My comment has nothing to do with nationality, race or ethnicity of inmates - it's a comment relating to geography. It's just that a lot of us who live in western states already know Spanish; if not fluently, at least enough to communicate. I'm guessing that a lot of inmates in Perryville already speak Spanish in addition to English, whereas prisons in other locations might speak French or German (north or Louisiana).

________
Hi ! I think her father taught her. I'm sure they speak Spanish at home at times. Take care.

 

[RickshawFan]

Wasn't it Abe that testified that she spoke Spanish fluently? I recall someone had related a scenario where she had impressed them with her fluency in it... I'm guessing it would have been before the magic panties incident.

Often, fluency in another language is in the eyes of the beholder. Sometimes people are mistakenly impressed at others' language skills. And, if you aren't fluent yourself, it's very hard to tell if another person is fluent.

 

[samspace070]

Thank you for this post. We need to think critically about IQ testing IMO. They are not all encompassing of a person's intellectual ability. There are many other variables which we don't know how to incorporate yet. IQ testing as a general guideline is helpful. IQ can change over the course of a lifetime. In the case above, there appears to be well developed areas i.e. nimble cognitive functioning and verbal skills mixed with areas under developed i.e. reading at 8th grade level, emotional deficits, etc. Psychotherapy seems to have a grasp of the pathological areas in personality which also influence results, but we don't yet know how to combine these variables. Hypothetically, if research conducted an MRI, CT scan and/or dissection of a certain brain, after death, we may find that certain areas had developed disproportionately greater and other areas may be under developed i.e. lack of integrated functioning. Brain neurology alters over a lifetime and influences personality development as well as interpretation of environmental factors. In the real world if a person grows up to be a 'deviant and dangerous' adult and becomes a 'risk to the safety' of others, then as a society, we have a responsibility to remove them to protect the community. Just a few thoughts. My opinion only.

You are right and I also think some of the newer tests are measuring WHAT we know like an ACT test rather than our ABILITY to learn and reason. I don't know where I read that or heard it, maybe in my HS psychology class, but it was my understanding that an IQ test measured our ability to learn and reason, where as an ACT like test, measures what we have learned. And the fact that JA did well on vocabulary tests and reading comprehension is testing what she learned. Am I making any sense? I think I will check up on that tomorrow.

 

[FelicityLemon]

________
Hi ! I think her father taught her. I'm sure they speak Spanish at home at times. Take care.

LOL, I don't doubt she speaks it, I'm saying it's condescending of her to think she'll teach it to inmates who most likely already speak it. For that matter, it's arrogant of her to assume she'll teach anyone anything.

 

[samspace070]

I'm O

"Give 'em the ole razzle dazzle." -Billy Flynn, Chicago

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle 'em with bull**** LOL

 

[Val1]

Often, fluency in another language is in the eyes of the beholder. Sometimes people are mistakenly impressed at others' language skills. And, if you aren't fluent yourself, it's very hard to tell if another person is fluent.

True, though this is what Abe had to say about it on Dr.Drew:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/16/ddhln.01.html
"ABDELHADI: I was a witness to that Spanish speaking. One time I had -- at an event I had a couple Spanish guests. My Spanish is intermediate or so. And she sits down and she starts rattling it off like Ricky Ricardo."

Also one of her co-workers, the one that told us about how JA mistreated the cat and also how she didn't want to look Mexican, spoke of it too:

"VERONICA: The only way she talked about her family was this, Doctor. She spoke fluent Spanish. She was really good. And I said, Jodi, wow, you speak Spanish. You know, are you part Spanish or South American, whatever? She said, "No, I`m half Mexican." "

 

[FelicityLemon]

True, though this is what Abe had to say about it on Dr.Drew:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/16/ddhln.01.html
"ABDELHADI: I was a witness to that Spanish speaking. One time I had -- at an event I had a couple Spanish guests. My Spanish is intermediate or so. And she sits down and she starts rattling it off like Ricky Ricardo."

Also one of her co-workers, the one that told us about how JA mistreated the cat and also how she didn't want to look Mexican, spoke of it too:

"VERONICA: The only way she talked about her family was this, Doctor. She spoke fluent Spanish. She was really good. And I said, Jodi, wow, you speak Spanish. You know, are you part Spanish or South American, whatever? She said, "No, I`m half Mexican." "

LOL, if her Spanish is like her English I'm sure some might be impressed.

:drumroll:

Smart people will know the difference. Oh, how I can fluently speak Spanish and those who don't speak it and eavesdrop on me are impressed. However, that's because they don't know Spanish. ROFLLLLL Those who DO know Spanish, know it's restaurant Spanish full of bad words, double negatives, bad grammar, and they laugh and laugh at me No problem for me, it's fun and it works! I'm really showing my age tonight - this made me think of a Cheech and Chong movie where they're driving across some guys yard and the homeowners are cussing them out yelling bad, bad words in Spanish and Cheech tells Chong (driving) it's okay, they're complimenting you. Too much fun!

 

[TexMex]

Won't be too long in Perryville until Large Marge explains to Jodi she's now her personal maravilla de tres agujeros

:hills:

 

[RickshawFan]

You are right and I also think some of the newer tests are measuring WHAT we know like an ACT test rather than our ABILITY to learn and reason. I don't know where I read that or heard it, maybe in my HS psychology class, but it was my understanding that an IQ test measured our ability to learn and reason, where as an ACT like test, measures what we have learned. And the fact that JA did well on vocabulary tests and reading comprehension is testing what she learned. Am I making any sense? I think I will check up on that tomorrow.

I believe IQ would be something more akin to "capability" than "ability". It doesn't say anything about how you are deploying your innate gifts. ACT's and SAT's are designed to determine if you'll succeed in college; this refers to whether you can solve problems in a way that will be helpful in those years and have sufficient language mastery to understand what a professor is saying in a freshman lecture. The ACT and SAT test learned skills. IQ reflects "what is". The pre-college tests are fairly precise measuring tools. The IQ tests are not, especially at the high (>130) and low ends (<70) of the scale.

IIRC, the vocabulary and reading tests Jodi did well on were not tests for potential university students. Jodi would not do well on English skill tests because they require sensitivity to assumptions and implications. Jodi does neither of these well at all. Nor can she get into someone else's shoes and see the world from their point of view; this is often required in comprehension passages. IIRC, the "superior" designation was in the context of the whole population. A top score on the ACT or SAT is in the context of college-bound high school seniors. Whole different standard!

IMO, there was deliberate highlighting of the "superior" label during Trial #1 and Trial #2 for PT strategic reasons. I think we shouldn't assume that it reflects any vast intelligence. It was just useful to Juan to make everyone think it was during the trial.

 

[samspace070]

I believe IQ would be something more akin to "capability" than "ability". It doesn't say anything about how you are deploying your innate gifts. ACT's and SAT's are designed to determine if you'll succeed in college; this refers to whether you can solve problems in a way that will be helpful in those years and have sufficient language mastery to understand what a professor is saying in a freshman lecture. The ACT and SAT test learned skills. IQ reflects "what is". The pre-college tests are fairly precise measuring tools. The IQ tests are not, especially at the high (>130) and low ends (<70) of the scale.

IIRC, the vocabulary and reading tests Jodi did well on were not tests for potential university students. Jodi would not do well on English skill tests because they require sensitivity to assumptions and implications. Jodi does neither of these well at all. Nor can she get into someone else's shoes and see the world from their point of view; this is often required in comprehension passages. IIRC, the "superior" designation was in the context of the whole population. A top score on the ACT or SAT is in the context of college-bound high school seniors. Whole different standard!

IMO, there was deliberate highlighting of the "superior" label during Trial #1 and Trial #2 for PT strategic reasons. I think we shouldn't assume that it reflects any vast intelligence. It was just useful to Juan to make everyone think it was during the trial.

Thanks RickshawFan, that explains it much better than I did.