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Discussions with a juror

Discussion in 'Nancy Cooper' started by ncsu95, May 31, 2011.

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  1. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    I was at my neighborhood pool tonight with my oldest daughter. I was talking to her friends moms as she was playing in the pool when one of their friends walked over. I know this woman very casually (I know her name and say hi when I see her) and she was confirming to one of the moms that it was the Brad Cooper case she was a juror on. My jaw hit the floor. She sat down at the edge of the pool and I told her I was obsessed with the trial and asked if I could talk to her about it and ask her questions. She said she didn't mind. So I spent nearly 2 hours discussing the case and jury with her. It was an amazing conversation partly because I knew one of the jurors. Anyways, I asked if she minded if I posted about our discussion and she said she didn't. I told her I would not disclose anything personal about her. We went over tons of things about the prosecution team, the defense team, the evidence presented, the notes from the jury and anything else I could think of to ask her. I will post a few of the interesting (to me at least) items. Feel free to ask me about anything specific and I'll post what she said if it was something we talked about. If not, I can possibly ask her if/when I see her again.

    - Initial "straw vote" when they first started deliberations were 2 guilty, 2 not-guilty, 8 undecided.
    - 2nd vote at the end of Wednesday was 10 guilty, 2 not guilty
    - 1 NG changed to guilty overnite Wednesday. Last vote soon changed to guilt as well
    - If there wasn't the google search, she would not have voted guilty.
    - The jury was very frustrated with the lack of evidence before the google search
    - The jury was very frustrated with the continuous stream of people brought in to say BC had an affair
    - She personally was bothered by Jessica Adam.
    - The jury back in the jury room was usually very funny/laughing at jokes, etc. After the google search testimony, they were silent when they went back.
    - She personally wished the defense had introduced a few character witnesses on BCs behalf.
    - One of the jurors was a techie and basically dismissed the timestamp stuff (remember they didn't hear all of the "evidence" regarding this).
    - After reading some of the stuff they weren't allowed to hear, she's not completely sure about the verdict. I personally told her that they made a decision based on what they were presented, and she shouldn't second guess anything now.
    - She was very happy the defense didn't question Mrs. Rentz. She was disappointed in how the prosecution cross-examined Mrs. Cooper.
    - Dateline is trying their best to get the jurors to discuss the case on the show. She doesn't want to. They are trying to take the jurors to dinner this week to convince them. I encouraged her to do it, but she doesn't want to.


    Now for a few comments on the juror notes.
    - The note about people staring at the jury was actually specifically about KL. Apparently she was staring at a juror that wasn't taking notes and wouldn't stop. Made the juror feel VERY uncomfortable.
    - 4 notes were sent about talking in the courtroom. All 4 were sent because of KL/HP talking/laughing. She said it was so bad at times that they couldn't hear the testimony.
    - The "we want our life back" note actually ticked her off. A juror did that on their own.
    - The juror dismissed right before deliberations was apparently a single mom that had to pick her child up from college and had no one else that could have done it. The juror wasn't expecting to get booted because of it.
    - The issue with the JA email to the prosecution was ridiculous. The juror in question was doing something church related. Her friend at church new she was part of a jury, but didn't know for what. But given the length, she said she thought it was the BC trial. She simply said that she wasn't allowed to talk about it, and nothing else was said. This was also the day that Gessner said that people would probably start figuring out what they were doing...but they couldn't talk about it. Anyways, her friend then mentioned to her hairdresser that she had a friend on the jury. No idea how JA got involved from their, but her friend had police show up at her house to question her about it. But the juror didn't do anything wrong because she didn't discuss the case or anything about it.



    Well that's it for now....I'll be glad to share anything that I can remember (again, this is with her permission).
     
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  3. cody100

    cody100 New Member

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    Thanks so much for the information, NCSU. It is very interesting and follows along what I suspected happened about the trial and jury decision. This information is potent and very helpful. Thank her for sharing this with us. And, I agree that they made a decision based on the information they were given.
     
  4. lib's mom

    lib's mom New Member

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    Funny ncsu, I was thinking about you earlier today. WOW! Thanks for sharing all that with us. I'm going to have lots of questions, but one I can think of right off the bat is, did she say anything about the jurors impressions of each of the attornies?
     
  5. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    I asked her about all 5 of the attorneys and their (or at least her) impression of each. I'm not going to share her opinion on them because I don't think it would be appropriate to do so since they could be reading this. I will say that like most people, she was very impressed with Trenkle's closing arguments.
     
  6. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    So the tech guy pretty much told everyone else that the time stamp testimony from the defense was not applicable? Can you elaborate a little more on that point?
     
  7. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    That's the feeling I got. I didn't ask much around that...we spent more time talking about what didn't get in, and what she read/watched after with regards to that. I did ask if anyone was technical. She said yes, one of the guys. I asked if it was the foreman and she said no. But she also talked about the FBI testimony where he said he didn't believe there was tampering even though he didn't have an explanation for the files having invalid timestamps. She was really bothered by that, but it didn't seem that the invalid timestamps were a big discussion point during deliberations.
     
  8. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Interesting ... that's one of the main things discussed on this board during the trial We thought the tech guy got it and that he wasn't going to let this slide by, but it turned out the tech guy didn't get it. As a real tech guy, he should have recognized it as something that was like a dangling participle ... hanging there without making sense. We spent weeks debating how the time stamps could be wrong - it made no sense. Others suggested that time stamps had a reasonable explanation - but that required some effort. Without some explanation - the computer testimony was incomplete. On top of that, it sounds like one of the juror presumed some level of expertise, and the remaining jurors (believing him to be an authority) accepted his position regarding the time stamps. I wonder ... did he bring it up as insignificant, or did another juror bring it up as a point to discuss. Was he also vocal about what happens in the jury room stays in the jury room?
     
  9. BrownRice

    BrownRice Well-Known Member

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    This is such a crazy story. I cannot even imagine how excited you must have been! It's interesting what the jury's mindset was before deliberation - kinda like on this board (but more guilty here). The google search is what did it for me too.

    Did she say anything about the vibe she got from BC in the courtroom? The comment about wanting a few character witnesses for BC - that's a good point. We didn't really ever hear about what a great guy he was - the most we got was from Scott (I think?) who was his buddy. But no warm fuzzies or anything close. Of course that played into the state's hand very well.

    Is she reading this board (or others) or is she getting her info from the news sites?

    What a small world! This is so cool.
     
  10. BrownRice

    BrownRice Well-Known Member

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    Another round of questions - did she talk about the "jogger" who was out on the morning of 7/12? Was any credibility ever given to her? Was RZ dismissed entirely?
     
  11. chauncey7381

    chauncey7381 New Member

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    Thanks for sharing that information NCSU95. I was in court for several sessions. That juror sums up what I witnessed and suspected with the Google search. The tech guy appeared "young" to me, I certainly would not deem him an expert in the capacity of the two experts for the Defense.

    I hope the Jurors will come out and express their views on Dateline. I understand 48 Hours is doing a show on this case too.

    Thanks again for sharing.
     
  12. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    Interesting discussion, NCSU!

    Did this juror mention anything about the evidence they DID look at (request) during deliberations? Remember they asked for photos of the house & NC's body at Fielding Dr, depo videos, receipts from BJs and a few other things. They did not ask to see the Google maps during deliberations.

    I sure hope at least some of the jury members give Dateline an interview. As I said before, that's always one of my fav parts of a Dateline crime/case show.
     
  13. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    Also, I'm curious what, specifically, this juror said about what 'bothered' her about J.A.? Since this juror knew about the judge looking into juror misconduct then she must have been part of that situation he only spoke to one juror and told that person not to discuss it with anyone else.
     
  14. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    One poster here (macd) has very clearly explained why timestamps on a Windows VISTA PC (which is what BC was using) would be 'the same.' Kurtz was pointing to timestamp anomalies as some kind of proof of tampering. However, he is wrong. This is documented by Microsoft and clearly explained by macd. People don't want to listen to or attempt to understand that explanation, but it's right there, simple.
     
  15. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    If I talk to her again, I'll try to get a better understanding of the deliberations about the invalid timestamps.
     
  16. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    No, she isn't reading this board. She read some of the golo stuff after the trial, but got very upset with comments about the jurors so she stopped reading it. She thought BC was very cocky/arrogant....until the google search. They saw a huge difference in his demeanor after the google search came out. She pointed out what a lot of us pointed out....the testimony from BCs/NCs friends was a lot different than just NCs friends. She felt like most of us did that NC embellished a lot to "her" friends.
     
  17. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    We did talk about RZ (she brought it up). She actually found her believable. She pointed out about her saying as soon as she saw the flyer that she said this is the woman I saw. And she found her believable because this all happened before NC was found.
     
  18. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    No, and I really wanted to ask about that. But it was pool closing time. One thing I did want to mention....we talked about reasonable doubt. She said that the jury charge sheet gave very specific definitions of reasonable doubt (ie, it has to meet criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, etc). That is how she was eventually able to change her vote to guilty despite her doubts. Same thing with 1st versus 2nd. 1st have 5 guidelines it had to meet and 2nd had 3. They really didn't spend much time on 2nd degree, and agrees with me (and just about everyone) that it had to be 1st or NG.
     
  19. ncsu95

    ncsu95 New Member

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    The "bothered" comment doesn't deal with the jury misconduct. I shouldn't have posted that in the thread, so I'm not going to discuss her reasons. It falls into line with discussing her opinions on the attorneys.
     
  20. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    I knew the 'bothered' comment wasn't related to the juror misconduct incident. I am curious about the juror's opinion on the various witnesses and since you mentioned JA specifically, I wanted to know what was bothersome to this juror.
     
  21. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

    RZ was straight out of central casting for the "R Z" character. No other actress is ever needed to play her in the movie version. She was hilarious. Oh I'm sure she believed she saw NC running that morning, but she did not since NC was already dead and discarded by 7am. She had the tall female runner wearing an iPod, which was not accurate.
     
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