Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Clutchbag, Nov 11, 2012.
Alive or dead?
Where's the don't know option? That would be my vote - don't know whether she is alive or dead.
After this length of time I would obviously lean towards the sad option of dead, but then again, look at cases like Jaycee Duggard where she turned up alive after 18 years. Her stepfather was suspected by all and sundry for the 18 years she was missing too, just like Maddie's parents now are, so you never know. You just never know, maybe this story will also have a happy ending.
How can anyone here know whether she is alive or dead. not one LE force has stated that they know for certain. PJ said they did not know, and scotland yard said whilst they did not know there were leads that meant there was a chance she was alive. It does happen, look at natascha Kampusch, she disappeared, and individuels campaigned against her mother claiming she was involved. But eight years later she turned up alive, and denied her mother had had any involvement with which the police concurred.
So the only people who can know at the moment are the ones who were there.
Also does anyone else think a bunch of grown adults taking votes on whether a tiny child is alive or dead is rather bad taste?
It's done in every other missing child case. Or do you mean this is worse because it's in a poll form instead of just being a discussion?
sorry cappuccino i cant edit the poll i should have put dont know but even if one doesnt know they might think more one way or the other, as for jaycee she was seen being abducted for sure no one saw madeleine being abducted
MODS if its possible can you add another option, dont know?
The only person who saw Jaycee being abducted was her stepfather. Can you see how that made him a suspect?
oh thanks didnt know that but at least someone DID see her being abducted which is not the case here
Poll form (although I obviously disagree with people making unfounded accusations or speculating - on this forum it is normally OK, but some other ones I have sadly seen are just vile).
I also did not see a "think" in the poll title, all i can see is a question - is she alive or dead.
Yes I remember that her stepfather got a lot of abuse from people on the internet claiming it was suspect, right up until she was found. parents of missing children have always been targets of suspicion for obvious reasons, and have always had to deal with gossip and rumour, but now it has got worse with the internet. I remember reading an article about the mother of Keith bennett, who disappeared in the early sixties. She always believed he was a victim of the moors murders apprently, but as she had only been married for a year there was a lot of nasty suspicion and gossip about her husband. It was twenty years before she was sadly proven right. It is wrong a mother in that situation had to put up with that sort of attitude. It is one thing for the police to intially suspect the parents -in the soham case one of the father's said he saw a note at the police station saying the father was a suspect, in the milly dowler case her father was initially suspected - thank goodness the UK police do not release all the details of the case like the PJ do as he woudl ahve had a lot of nastiness directed at him going by the information divulged about him in the trial and the nastiness about it on the internet now. I think in the Uk at least the recent wales abuse naming and shaming fiasco might bring that to a head in regards to internet gossip as the man named is considering legal action against individuel twitter users, but we will see.
Thats just it though, at the time it was said he claime dot have seen her abducted and it was just his word. just as in this case it is just tanner, and the smiths word as to what they saw. maybe one day they will be proven right or wrong, but at this point they are in the same situation as Jaycee's dugaard's stepfather was for eighteen years. he was only vindicated when jaycee was found.
there is a THINK in the first
post introducing the poll, semantics dear
nope not the same at all
The father knew his daughter and saw her the smiths and tanner sightings are nothing of the sort at all
I don't want to get into an argument with you Clutchbag, because I honestly don't know what happened here. But I would just ask you to ask yourself the following hypothetical question - say Kate McCann claimed to have witnessed Madeleine being abducted, and there was no corroborating evidence. No other witnesses, no defensive wounds, forensics, anything. That's the position Jaycee's stepfather was in for 18 years.
Would you really take her word for it? Or would you think it was even more grounds to suspect her?
If Madeleine was abducted at all she was abducted with no other witness present, apart from her two younger (and most likely sleeping) siblings. So the fact that there are no witnesses doesn't mean she wasn't abducted.
Basically, I don't know is my answer.
my problem with this is not the logistics of a possible abduction but their words and behaviour post it which are highly questionable at best, they have been outed as liars. Many times and kate mccanns book is so far removed from the facts its so unbelievable
Anyway had enough of this crap for another day, see u tomorrow maybe
Cadaver dogs dont lie either
The mccanns have not been outed as liars.
The dog was an evrd, which according to its handler alerts to dried blood and bodily fluids and cannot be taken as evidenc eon its own. It also alerted in a care home where no bodies wee found so unless we are going to go down the "child murder in jersey cover-up" route we cannot assume the dogs are always alerting to a dead body. Dogs may not lie, but they may make mistakes, and do alert to things other than bodies.
If the mccanns did do it, no-one has been able to come up with a theory as to how they removed the body.
yea they have on many occasions
As for them being innocent cos no one has figured out if and what they did <modsnip>
I dont know how harold shipman killed people but he did
Jaycee's thread here had about 50 posts prior to her being found (it began in '05) and I only see one post talking about the stepfather possibly being involved. Considering that WS is the most active forum for most cold cases, I'm not sure how much discussion about the case was going on elsewhere. So I think saying there was a "lot of abuse" from people for 18 years on the Internet is kind of exaggerating.
Criticism of parents is not worst nowadays; It's just that the Internet makes every case fair game no matter how much coverage they receive, or when they fade out of the media.
I voted in the poll ... Unfortunately, I believe Maddie is dead and the parents are NOT "innocent" ...
They know what happened ... it's been too long for Maddie ...
Time Kate and Gerry "fess up" ... as well as the Tappas Dinner Party should "fess up" as to what they know ...
I changed the title a bit (I hate the thought that Madeleine is dead) and added the "don't know" option, per Clutchbag's request.
I also added a "dead, parent's innocent" option because it is possible a stranger has harmed Maddie.
Hope all those changes are okay, Clutchbag - they are a bit more than you asked for, so let me know if I went to far, okay? Just send me a quick pm and we can get it fixed up.
I'm not sure, parents innocent. There are too many questions either way to be certain, other than IMO Portugal has a very good reason to want it to be the parents, imagine how their tourism trade may have been affected otherwise.
IIRC wasn't there a witness who saw a man carrying a child nearby that night? Also wasn't there a sighting at a camping park in spain a couple of days after? There were false plates in those peoples car IIRC.
The truth is often stranger than what we would expect it to be.
I also recall internet talk on different sites about Jaycee Lee Dugards stepfather being guilty of her disappearance long before she was found (I'm in Australia not the USA). He wasn't at all though.
I've said it before, I personally cannot see how the Parents could have killed the child on the 3rd May 2007 and then carried on as if nothing had happened, potentially fooling even their friends as well as various Law Enforcement Agencies.
That said though, I personally believe they know a lot more about whatever happened to Madeleine on that holiday, just what that is I don't know, their actions have never added up and the more I look at the case, the worse they look imo.
The passage of time with no answers and no sightings, makes me believe that sadly Madeleine is no longer with us.
Separate names with a comma.