Doctor's Appt & Seizures Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

Discussion in 'Kyron Horman' started by BeanE, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    In the Dateline piece on Kyron on Friday November 12, 2010, there was some new info on the doctor's appointment and seizures.

    There's no video or transcript available yet, but from my memory and personal notes, the reporter did a voiceover in which she said that nobody in the family knew about the seizures or doctor's appointment.

    Here's a prior thread about the seizures and appointment:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111400"]Kyron's "seizures" & discussion about TH's emails re: doctor's appts. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    And another prior thread about the doctor's appointment:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107776"]Kyron's doctors appointment - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    And some reference info:


    Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

    Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said.


    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html[/quote]


    And some more reference info:

    Emails sent on June 5

    Typed up Terri's email excerpts up from what is shown on the screen in this video:
    http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html?tab=video

    Screenshot 1:
    The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with K**** for a doctor’s appt. I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man “chaperone” and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to have been 300 people running around – no coordination…”


    Screenshot 4:
    The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks he is having mini seizures and I made an appt. on Thursday for the next Friday to have him checked out.
     
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  3. Chablis

    Chablis Inactive

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    Of course the teacher had hearing loss! All these excuses.. I mean I am sure she did, but jeez.

    I think Terri could have been poisoning Kyron. jmo
     
  4. Aedrys

    Aedrys If justice doesn't get you, karma will.

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    Okay, here's my overall take on the appointment. There is speculation in this post, so be warned of that. Not everything I say might be true because we don't know all the details just yet, so I assume we are allowed to speculate on a few things from what we do know. This goes with my theory that Terri, a narcissist, thought this appointment would make her out to be the stepmother of century and also exonerate her from what happened to Kyron. All IMO only .

    The appointment wasn't the entire plan. It was only a piece of a plan to prove Terri's innocence. Think about it this way - she needed to get him out of that school. She also needed the school to not panic and immediately call her or Kaine when it's discovered that Kyron is not there. She needs that time to do what she did to Kyron and then hide what she's done.

    She can't just take him and risk that luck is going to be on her side and the school won't call her or God forbid Kaine, wondering where he is. So she had to make up the appointment. But it can't be a real appointment because she knows she's getting symptoms from WebMD (which I showed in a previous post in a previous thread on this subject that she practically took their symptoms verbatim and put them in an email to her friend). She never intends to take him to an appointment because he's not going anywhere after she's done on that Friday.

    Instead, she uses that fake appointment to trick the school. If they think he's out at an appointment and coming back later, they won't call her or Kaine, and that gives her time to do what she needs to do - in fact, the school never even raised an alarm about it. It was only the teacher that got confused about it and never reported Kyron missing to the front office because Terri confused her about that appointment. She volunteered at that school. She knew the inner workings of it and what she had to do to get Kyron out and not make any alarm of it. The appointment was the piece to help her do that and it worked.

    She even fills out a sheet for it, so if anyone did look, oh, he's just at a doctor's appointment. I believe it was discussed that she didn't have to write down the date of the appointment, just that he had an appointment. Then when she's asked about that, all she had to say is that it was for the following Friday, not Friday June 4th. The poor teacher who doesn't hear well was just mistaken. And if Kaine and Desiree ask her about it, that's where supermom comes in, filling them in on what she saw before he went missing and why she made an appointment.

    In this scenario, no one calls the doctor's office. No one gets suspicious because she's this caring mom who was so worried about her stepson that she made an appointment. And she'd tell Kaine and Desiree that she wasn't sure if it was seizures or not, so she didn't want to worry them before knowing for sure what is wrong with Kyron. She was thinking about them, afterall, and not wanting to worry them unless she absolutely had to. How selfless and courageous of her to take the initiative to do something like that (that's what she thought they would think).

    This is how easy it was supposed to be. No police looking into her, no polygraphs tests, no one suspicious of her, only people thinking she was a selfless, loving mom that was looking out for Kyron, who would never ever want to hurt him. She banked on people, including the police, believing the very words coming out of her mouth and never going further with it than that - a true trait of a Narcissist.

    But instead, it flew right back in her face and brought her nothing but trouble. I'm going to offer the below scenario as speculative proof only:

    1. The questions she stumbled on the polygraph tests were about the appointment, something that wasn't supposed to have anything to do with what happened to Kyron (SPECULATION ONLY - we don't know what questions she didn't do well with).
    2. The teacher's story about the appointment and Terri's story did not add up. There's also a document in the office about the appointment but not what exact date it was, so the police aren't sure what to believe, but something is very hinky here (SPECULATION ONLY).
    3. Suspicious because of the above two points, the police looked into the appointment to verify it and verify Terri's story over the teacher's, and find out it was a fake (SPECULATION ONLY).
    4. The police bring this fact to Kaine and Desiree's attention to see their reaction to it, and find out that they knew nothing about Kyron having seizures or the appointment (SPECULATION ONLY).
    5. Then it's back to looking into Terri because she's also the last adult to have seen Kyron at the school. Add a fake appointment to that, and you've got BIG suspicion hanging over her head from then on (SPECULATION ONLY).

    If you take the appointment away, all you have is that Terri was the last person to see Kyron in school, a real Riley Fox case. More people would think she was innocent because of other cases like Riley Fox's. Kaine and Desiree would even think she might be innocent. Even if the police looked into her, they wouldn't find enough to be really suspicious of her. Terri would have gotten away with it.

    But instead, she went too far in bringing in the fake appointment. It had a domino effect, raising suspicion exponentially on her instead of helping to clear her as a supermom who loved her stepson. She thought too much about how to make herself look to everyone else instead of blending into the background more and looking more innocent. That's why I'm saying she's a narcissist. She thinks too much about how she looks to everyone else. She tries too hard to fit in and be the supermom she believes in her head that she is.

    That is her top priority, that everyone believe she is a supermom who loved Kyron and couldn't possibly hurt him. How to accomplish that? Make a fake appointment for fake seizures and surely no one will think for a second that she had anything to do with what happened to Kyron. That's what she was banking on, her selfless, loving supermom persona to free her of suspicion. She brought more attention on herself thinking it would exonerate her, and instead, it's only going to help convict her at some point. If only she hadn't worried so much about how she looked to everyone else, she might have eluded suspicion in this case.

    It reminds me of the case of the man who drowned his wife in a hotel bathtub. All he had to do was let it go, but he was greedy and couldn't help but sue the hotel for his wife's death. The subsequent investigation revealed the her accidental death was a murder instead. Had he not taken the step to sue the hotel to satisfy his selfish and greedy needs, he probably would have gotten away with it, scarily enough. He and Terri Horman worried too much about themselves. They worried too much about things they thought would bring positive attention on to them, not realizing all they were doing was the exact opposite and making themselves all the more suspicious. They shouldn't have thought about wanting more attention if they wanted to get away with murder. That's the problem with Naricissists. They think they can spin any kind of attention in a way that makes them look better. They think attention on them is exactly what they need when in fact, it's the last thing they need if they want to get away with murder.

    This is why there's that adage about the watching the quiet ones - it's the ones that don't bring attention to themselves that get away with crime the most. Terri Horman, fortunately for justice for Kyron, is definitely NOT one of the quiet ones even though she won't open her mouth and defend herself. She already put too much out there to draw attention to herself. She doesn't have to say anything because the damage has already been done thanks to her selfish, narcisstic need to be mother of the century to her stepson.
     
  5. debs

    debs Former Member

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    (moved from the Dateline thread):

    ALL very diabolical on Terri's part. My goodness. I'm definitely seeing something here I wish I hadn't.
     
  6. Aedrys

    Aedrys If justice doesn't get you, karma will.

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    Yes, it is very diabolical on Terri's part. We've seen what's she's capable of through texting, and how much she doesn't care about anything but herself. Why then couldn't she diabolical as well? It totally fits with her personality traits. People are who Narcissists don't think logically and rationally like the rest of us do. That's what separates them from the rest of us and also makes us scratch our heads because of their words and actions.

    I did update my last post to include some important things I left out of it on the last thread, so it should be read through again if anyone has read it on the last thread. I believe this is a solid theory, and in time, we're going to get the details that will prove it to be correct. Right now, it's mostly speculation and my opinion since we don't know all that much.
     
  7. matou

    matou #los2188

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    And some more reference info:

    Emails sent on June 5

    Typed up Terri's email excerpts up from what is shown on the screen in this video:
    http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html?tab=video

    Screenshot 1:
    The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with K**** for a doctor’s appt. I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man “chaperone” and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to have been 300 people running around – no coordination…”


    Screenshot 4:
    The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks he is having mini seizures and I made an appt. on Thursday for the next Friday to have him checked out.[/QUOTE]


    About the email the next day r.e. Kyron acting weird and not remembering: this is very suspicious to me since she is turning this new behavior as an excuse as to why Kyron may be mission, IMO. She also mentions that "the doc thinks he is having mini seizures" so this is stating that the doctor knew about the weird behavior either though a phone call or an actual visit to the doctor. I'm sure this has been verified by this point by Kyron's doctor. If it lasted for a few weeks prior than her not telling Desiree or Kaine is very suspicious as well.
     
  8. Aedrys

    Aedrys If justice doesn't get you, karma will.

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    Just wanted to point out that just because SHE said the doctor said it, doesn't mean that the doctor actually said it. We don't know what yet the doctor actually said, so until then, I'm taking Terri saying the doctor said with a grain of salt.
     
  9. matou

    matou #los2188

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    I don't think she spoke with a doctor at all about this unless it was part of her scheme to set up this doctor's appointment thing. I just think it's self serving to put the onus on Kyron himself for his own dilemma. SHe doesn't write thing like OMG where's Kyron? I can't believe this happened,etc.....She mentions about how disorganized things were and how the teacher misunderstood her, a male chaperone, he's acting weird, he can't remember....every excuse except some REAL CONCERN over her stepson, who she was helping to supervise while she was in that school. She implied to her husband that she was going to be there until 10 am to pick up that project and she left at 9, coincidentally when this whole thing begins to mysteriously unfold. The whole thing is so fishy to me. JMO
     
  10. Indianagirl

    Indianagirl New Member

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    I'm still dying to know if there really was a doctor's appt scheduled for the 11th! Wish LE or the family would confirm or deny this...
     
  11. Aedrys

    Aedrys If justice doesn't get you, karma will.

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    Me too!!!! That is the one thing I wish we knew for certain! It would definitely answer a lot of questions.
     
  12. Jo in Calif

    Jo in Calif Well-Known Member

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    BeanE there is also a news article, where Terri's mom talks about the Dr. appt. that, I believe is a little different than Terri's email explanation and JF's explanation. I know you could pull it up in a nano second. It would be good to have that one on here also, thanks.
     
  13. nosysw

    nosysw Active Member

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    Also, did she really give the teacher papers to fill out? If she made the appt. Thursday, for next Friday, how did she already have the papers to give the teacher on Thursday. I mean, I guess it's possible she went and picked them up (don't know how far her peds office is) but my peds just put them in the mail to me, I get them the next day or two and bring them in when I come in... I would love to know if those papers existed and if so, what they asked...
     
  14. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    I think it might have been a last minute addition because it doesn't really make sense to me that she'd schedule a doctor's appointment some time beforehand (either as an alibi or the real thing, doesn't matter) and not mention it to Kaine or Desiree. If she was really worried about Kyron having seizures it would have been natural for her to have talked it over with his parents and if she wanted an alibi she should have realized that an unspoken concern would look more made up than a concern shared with the family.
     
  15. Adrienne37

    Adrienne37 Former Member

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    Okay, let me get this straight. Terri's email (from matou's screenshot 4) states:

    Screenshot 4:
    The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks he is having mini seizures and I made an appt. on Thursday for the next Friday to have him checked out.


    After reading that, it implies to me that Terri had actually spoken to the "doctor" who thinks Kyron was having mini-seizures. I will say after working in the healthcare field in many, many positions, for many, many years, the chances that Terri actually spoke with Kyron's doctor is complete and utter crap. First off, I don't know many doctors who are actually going to speak with a parent and make a diagnosis such as that over the phone. Secondly, a doctor's office is incredibly busy, particularly a pediatrician's office, and I don't believe a doctor is going to take the time to personally speak to every person calling his office trying to schedule an appointment. If it's the doctor's personnel making a diagnosis such as "mini seizures," then he might better look around and try to hire some new employees because they certainly aren't qualified to diagnose a child with a "mini seizure" over the phone. Add that to the fact that she never bothers to inform either of Kyron's parents that he was having these "mini-seizures," that she had spoken to the doctor about it, and that she had scheduled an appointment for him can lead to the only reasonable solution and that is that she lied. She wrote that email as part of her alibi and then tried to blame it on the teacher who was hearing impaired, according to Terri. Me thinks Terri Horman isn't as smart as she thinks she is. JMO.
     
  16. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    You can download and print some forms online.
     
  17. JSV

    JSV New Member

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    When was he leaving to go to his mother and stepfathers house .Would he have been at his mother and stepfathers house on the friday he was suppose to have the alleged Dr's appointment .
     
  18. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    I don't think we know but I doubt it. He was supposed to go there the weekend he disappeared so if they were on an every other week schedule he wouldn't have gone the next weekend and even if he was supposed to see his mother on the 11th the doctor's appointment would probably have been in the daytime, before Desiree could pick him up.
     
  19. Chablis

    Chablis Inactive

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    Could Terri make Dr's appointments for Kyron?
     
  20. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/horman_family_answers_question.html

    How do you read this bit from the parents?

    If it's unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled, does it mean, yes, there was an appointment scheduled?

    What's the significance of when it was scheduled? Could Terri have called the doctor after she had already told the teacher about having an appointment, or even scheduled it after Kyron had already gone?
     
  21. nosysw

    nosysw Active Member

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    Hi, Donjeta!

    That could be but in my experience with my four kids the specialists are the ones with these forms online. I've never done this with a general practitioner or pediatrician. These types of forms are more common for specialists to use and they generally have less time, in my experience, so they have them on their websites to make things quicker. My general practitioner and pediatricians don't even have a website!

    Definitely a possibility though...
     

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