Doi Proceeds - What Is The Truth?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Barbara, May 29, 2004.

  1. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    We have all been speculating and commenting for years regarding the book, the "foundation", the proceeds etc.

    Is there a legal knowledgeable person out there that knows how to find out what exactly the proceeds were? Is it public record? Do the Ramseys legally have to state the proceeds to the public because of their claims?

    I would be very interested to know exactly what the proceeds were for the sales of the book, especially since the Ramseys claim to still be giving money from the "foundation". You know, the one that doesn't exist anymore.

    Since the book is still for sale, where do those proceeds go now? Can they still legally claim the charity on the book THAT IS STILL BEING SOLD?????

    Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

    Edited to add:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/045...475-5280745?_encoding=UTF8&p=S00B#reader-page

    This is the page you continue to see on Amazon.com when you want to order this book. It continues to state that the proceeds go to the Foundation. Is this legal?
     
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  3. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    What happened to those PROCEEDS?????????? This is an old article, but a seemingly forgotten little tidbit, which I have taken the liberty of enlarging and putting in bold type.




    So where's the money????????
     
  4. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    Maybe L. Wood knows?

    IMO
     
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Barbara those are all excellent questions.

    The Ramseys are now saying the foundation is private.

    I have uploaded a scanned news article from the Gaylord Times that talks about it.

    Oh they also talk about a certain Larry King Live caller...LOL.

    Feel free to transcribe it and bring it here. I would but I have to run.

    Here is the link to the thread.
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4740
     
  6. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    ? Kinda like... a savings account? Hey, I have a private foundation, too, and make donations to myself on a regular basis.
     
  7. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    I thought about transcribing the article, but stopped when I realized that for me, being able to read the article clearly as it was actually written in the newspaper had a much bigger impact than when it is retyped by someone.

    It is an excellent article and I also have no idea what "private" means as it relates to a charity. What about the book proceeds? What does John mean that every penny in the funds are HIS OWN monies???? (ME ME ME). He sure does get insulted easily. NOT a good characteristic for an up and coming politician.

    Again, EXCELLENT article. Good for you Tricia! Somebody on the forums who is willing to stick her neck out. :clap:

    BE CAREFUL OUT THERE! Those Ramseys and their followers can be NUTS
     
  8. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

     
  9. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

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    Sooooo in other words, John can use the money from DOI paperback sales, declare it private and dispense it to further his political career.

    Why didn't the Ramsey's include this info on the cover of their book? Isn't this called FRAUD?
     
  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

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    "We set one up for Beth, we set one up for JonBenet, and every penny that goes into those foundations is my own money."
     
  11. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

    Huh?
     
  12. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

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    John didn't buy my book for me....I did. Is he admitting to stealing the donation my book purchase brought?

    Notice how the 'greedy' lawyers took all the money from the first edition printing. Nothing left for the foundation....or the tax records would have shown it....right?
     
  13. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    If the Ramseys filed a 990-PF then their foundation has always been private. The majority of foundations are private as opposed to public foundations which are supported by government grants and the like. Anyone can set up a private foundation and fund it from his or her own pocket or from monies sent in by individuals or other foundations. The donations made by the foundation are to serve the public good. I would suspect that any book income used to pay lawyers was taxed as income, while any that went into the foundation was tax-exempt.
     
  14. newtv

    newtv New Member

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    I think the "Operative" word in this is "ANY" profits go to...

    There is always a way to say there were no profits especially where a charitable organization is the taxation process used-some schools still use this as well and there is never a profit (private post graduate schools who charge a fortune for tuition), so the Ramseys can have used the funds for their own purposes if related to the murder-and that means paying legal fee's- then there is no profit to speak of and the money is taxed as if it were charitable-they can pay tgheselves from that- they can pay their lawyers from that-so I think thats the way it works- and if he is running for office you can be sure that part is well explained should the press ask the question-now if thee was a charitable organization I think a board is required- so you might want to ask who was on the board of Directors-and they can actually be sued if anything went on that is illegal-but i tend to think they paid out their costs and there was no profits/money to give away after the fact..and likely still isnt or the thousand dollars is part of some small amount left over or required..
     
  15. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Tipper for bringing this point up.

    A couple of great researches wrote this up for me. It spells out the JBR Foundation.

    A call to the IRS confirmed that the Foundation was closed in 2000. Yes they did file a 990-PF but it was later. In the begining it was a non-profit.
    `````````````````````````````````````````
    JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION

    EIN: 84-1397683

    Directors: John Ramsey
    Patsy Ramsey

    Officers: President - Patsy Ramsey
    Vice President - John Ramsey
    Treasurer - Gail Heinzman

    Statement of Purpose: "To raise money for children's education and care" and to protect against "the victimization of children."

    ACTIVITIES:

    1997
    Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

    Media articles and Crime Stoppers ad disclose JBR Foundation offer of $100,000 reward for information regarding "well dressed male" approaching children at Christmastime, 1996; no such funds in Foundation account to back up offer

    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/19/98:
    Contributions received: $12,533
    Donor: John Ramsey
    Charitable contributions made: $769
    Recipient of charitable contribution: Unknown
    Market value of trust assets (including
    interest earned on bank account: $4,354


    1998

    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/18/99:
    Contributions received: $2,703
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including
    interest earned on bank account: $5,506



    1999

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/25/00:
    Contributions received: $3,865
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $2,000
    Recipient of charitable contribution: St. Johns Episcopal Church, Boulder
    Purpose of charitable contribution: "Assistance to children's programs
    and other unrestricted church use"
    Market value of trust assets (including
    interest earned on bank account: $6,415

    2000

    Foundation terminated per IRS

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:
    Contributions received: $1,405
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including
    interest earned on bank account: $7,860

    Notes:
    Line 8a: Foundation reports to state of Colorado but CO "does not require any report"

    Part IXA Summary of Direct Charitable Activities: "N/A"

    Part IXB Summary of Program-Related Investments: "N/A"

    Part XVI List any managers of the foundation who have contributed more than 2% of the total contributions received by the foundation before the close of any tax year (but only if they contributed more than $5,000): "NONE"

    Part XV Grants and Contributions Paid During the Year: "NONE"

    Part XVI-B Relationship of Activities to the Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes: "This section is blank because the foundation's revenue was either from gifts or from interest on its account. The foundation generated no income from activities."

    Statement 1/Form 990-PF/Part 1 Line 1/Contributions, Gifts and Grants: "No single contributor gave $5,000 or more during the year."
     
  16. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    I guess they felt safe that the reward money would never be requested!

    Even the NE was willing to back up their reward offer!

    Even the NE had more class than the Ramseys
     
  17. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    From John Walsh’s Tears of Rage:

    "We remembered what we had learned during the search for Adam – that rewards are useful for getting the media’s attention, and keeping it. So the Center posted a reward. That way, if we had to go back to the press and ask for more coverage down the line, they wouldn’t say, "Who needs you? We’ve already got Staci’s mother puking and crying on camera. It’s old news." Instead they could report fresh news – that the reward has just been increased.

    In most cases, no one actually collects the money. We didn’t even have it. It was just a tactic to keep the case in front of the public."


     
  18. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I edited the quote for clarity

    Not sure what you mean by "they did file a 990-PF but it was later." It looks like they filed one in 98, 99, 00, and 01. Also am not sure if you are saying Private foundations are inherently different from non-profit?
     
  19. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorry Tipper.

    They filed a non-profit in 1997. Then the filed the 990 pf until 2001. However according the I.R.S. the foundation, be it private or otherwise, was closed in 2000. Meaning it does not exist. Perhaps they meant 2001 when the last filing is listed.


    This is from a press release I sent out. It appears the Ramseys are disingenuous when they tout the JBR foundation don't you think?

    From the press release,


    Take the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation, for instance.

    John Ramsey claimed he would be looking for the killer of his daughter
    JonBenet until the killer was found. Based on the following information, you be the judge of how sincere John Ramsey is in finding the "killer" of his daughter.

    From John and Patsy Ramsey's book, Death of Innocence, hard cover version,
    p 374 published in 2000:

    "If you think you have any information that could help, please call, write,
    or e-mail us...

    We have had a web site and tip line that can be reached at 303-904-****.
    Confidential information can be mailed to P. O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA
    31139. Our e-mail address is JonBenetinfo@aol.com."

    The "tip line" John Ramsey set up to help find the "killer" of JonBenet
    Ramsey was printed incorrectly in the hardcover of their book. The real
    owner of the phone number printed in Death of Innocence reported the Ramsey
    "tip line" was disconnected over three years ago. The email address is not
    in operation. The email address JonBenetinfo@aol.com bounces back as
    "unknown."

    In the updated paperback version of Death of Innocence, which was released
    in 2001, the paragraph was changed to the following:

    If you think you have any information that could help, please call, write,
    or e-mail us. Or if you know anyone who can make a device like the garrote
    or the hand ligature (which had a loop on both ends) pictured on the
    Jameson Web site * please speak up. Contact us by e-mail at
    JonBenetTipLine@aol.com, call your local police or call the Boulder Police. Cont..

    The email address, JonBenetTipline@aol.com bounces back as "unknown." There
    is no updated or corrected tip line phone number, leaving the owner of the
    incorrect number printed in the hardback version to field calls on a
    regular basis explaining there is no "Tip Line" for JonBenet Ramsey. The
    Boulder Police no longer have control of the case. It is now in Boulder D.A
    Mary Keenan's hands.

    The Ramsey website, www.ramseyfamily.com has been non-existent for several
    years. A check of ownership at Network Solutions shows the owner of this
    domain as Haddon, Morgan, and Forman, the Ramseys' former criminal
    attorneys. The domain ownership expired April 19, 2004. To date, no one
    has renewed the domain.


    As of the date of this press release, the back cover of the paperback
    version of Death of Innocence states: AUTHORS' PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF THIS BOOK WILL GO TO THE JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION."

    A phone call placed to the I.R.S. confirmed that the JonBenet Ramsey
    Foundation was closed in 2000. The same year the paperback version of Death of Innocence came out.

    Forums for Justice would like to ask John Ramsey where the money received
    from sales of Death of Innocence went, as it appears the money did not go
    to the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation as touted on the cover of the book.

    There is no tip line, no web site provided by the Ramsey family to help
    find the killer of JonBenet Ramsey. There is no information anywhere on the
    Internet about the $100,000 reward. Yet, John Ramsey has the time, the
    money and the desire to put up a very professional website about HIMSELF
    and his run for office.

    The defunct JonBenet Ramsey Foundation accomplished very little if anything
    at all, in spite of John Ramsey's claims to the contrary. He promoted an
    organization called "SHOES" in Death of Innocence, an organization that has
    yet to be formed despite the fact he has had over 4 years to get SHOES up
    and running.
     
  20. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Looks like Walsh, in his book, was being honest and straightforward about his tactics. How does this compare to what the Ramseys said about their foundation?
     
  21. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I doubt that at the time Walsh said "We're offering this reward but we don't have the money." The book was written may years later.
     

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