Found Deceased Dominican Republic - Orlando Moore & Portia Ravenelle, from NY on vacation, April 2019

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Gardenista, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    Okay, you don't photograph her. That said, they could have put out a statement about an unidentified woman with approximate age and place where she was found. Maybe not easily recognizable but if you have a large tourist population someone who had been brutalized might not be reported for a week or more. I just don't buy that there was no way to make this public without a photo. I don't think much effort went in to finding out who she was.
     
  2. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    It makes one wonder about any investigation. Since she was found by herself with apparently nothing else around her to indicate what happened, and if she was unresponsive, I wonder if LE was even called to the scene. It could've just been DR's EMS, which I have no knowledge of. They might not have even treated her like an accident victim, with spinal immobilization, after making sure she had a patent airway with adequate breathing, and circulation, IMO.

    I'm with some of the others. The more we seem to learn, the more questions I have.
     
  3. osu

    osu Well-Known Member

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    Dominican Republic 2018 Crime & Safety Report

    ~snip
    “The most common type of crime is the drive-by robbery that is normally performed by one or two assailants (usually male) on a motorcycle, scooter, or even a bicycle. The assailant will drive up to their potential victim and grab anything that is in arm's reach. Often they will stop, one will disembark and point a handgun at the victim, demanding valuables. Although armed assaults are more frequent at night and when victims travel by foot, they can occur during the day while the victim is in a vehicle stopped at a traffic light.”
    ~snip

    “The country faces the challenge of organized crime, which involves a variety of activities, including drug trafficking and money laundering. This situation is exacerbated by the lack of law enforcement resources, poorly paid and trained police officers, and rampant corruption.”
    ~snip

    “Avoid renting vehicles or driving unless familiar with the local traffic laws and customs. Local law requires that a driver be taken into custody when an accident results in serious injury/death, even if the driver is insured and appears not to have been at fault. Only the driver will be taken into custody. The minimum detention period is 48 hours; however, detentions could last until a judicial decision is reached (often weeks or months) or until a waiver is signed by the injured party (usually as the result of a settlement).”
    ~snip

    “Travel at night on intercity highways and in rural areas can be highly dangerous and is not advised due to animals on the road, poor road conditions, and vehicles being driven at either very slow or excessive speeds, often with malfunctioning headlights or taillights. Rolling blackouts within the urban and rural areas increase the danger of night travel, and street lights outside of major urban areas are uncommon.”
     
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  4. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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  5. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    IMO, there are two paths of illegality/injustice in this case.

    1. What led to the accident? Speed, alcohol, and/or other illegal activity like robbery.

    2. What kind of investigation took place for a woman found critically wounded by the side of the road? Lack of investigation into her circumstances, lack of procedure in the local police investigations, lack of desire to raise alarm bells that would scare off tourists, and/or indifference to the lives of those who live in this country. Would there have been an investigation if this woman looked different than most of the population of the DR? We need to hear from people who live there about their level of confidence in the local police force.
     
  6. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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  7. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    rbbm.
    Deadly mix of booze, speed and dark road may have led to fatal crash that killed NY tourists in Dominican Republic
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    "National Police commander Frank Félix Duran Mejía said Moore, 43, had been seen drinking before he and Ravenelle left their hotel in Samaná to drive to the airport and fly home from their idyllic four-day vacation March 27, El Diario reported.

    Mejia said authorities believe the Mount Vernon couple may have been speeding to get to the airport, and may have made a wrong turn and changed course when the car went out of control around 2 a.m. on a dark road and plunged into the Caribbean Sea, the news outlet reported."

    "New York Reps. Adriano Espaillat and Eliot Engel wrote FBI Director Christopher Wray earlier this week requesting that the agency “work quickly to conduct a thorough investigation regarding details of their reported deaths that raise questions for us."
     
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  8. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    I would just point out their police commander also stated they did not know who was driving for sure. While there may have been alcohol consumed, we do not know yet and they don't either that it played any part in this, that she had any, etc. or how much, if any either had, there is not one bit of documentation. The trek had been largely traveled without any trouble we know of. It is right up there with sensationalism and insinuation directed at the victims and still with not one shred of documentation. It seems like victim shaming to me when this is a tragedy. The same truly applies to speed, not a bit of documentation that we have seen nor that these articles contain. If this is all that is necessary for such an article and headline, let me give them some of our speculations without supporting documentation of what also could have happened.

    Just saying... I have felt like that since seeing it the other day. Still waiting for check-out time and video by the way... Just sayin'....

    Just my opinion.
     
  9. Vern

    Vern Well-Known Member

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    IMO, no one is victim shaming.

    The Canadian couple that they spent their last day and evening with has given interviews which have been linked here. They spoke of spending the day drinking and enjoying the waterfalls with the couple and then them returning to the hotel where the four of them shared a bottle of rum before the couples parted between 2130 and 2200hrs so that Orlando and Portia could go pack up their rooms, check out and begin making their way to the airport for their flight.

    Whether alcohol was a factor in the accident will be borne out by the autopsies.

    Clearly, there is plenty of MSM links posted into this thread, along with the Chief of Police's statement and news conference. Many of which are now pointing out that alcohol may have been a factor and that speed may have been a factor.

    Talking about those possibilities is not victim shaming. It is discussing facts made available by the couple who were the last to spend time with them and by statements given to, and published by the main stream media.

    We are talking about the DR - not North America or Europe where the highways have cameras, where every business has one too etc etc. It was the middle of the night in a third world country. Not everyone there has a cellphone and a videocam at the ready - they are poor folk those locals. The fishermen who found her crawling and injured had to run to a nearby business to call the police and an ambulance. I fear that if you are waiting for video proof, you're not ever going to find yourself satisfied. And, the DR has very different standards for releasing documents to the general public - they are not the US of A, so we may never be privy to anything further.

    Yes, this is a tragedy. No one has stated that it was not. But, most believe it was a tragic accident. And a lack of video evidence won't make it any less so. Just my opinion.

    Edited: typos
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  10. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    No matter how one twists or turns the info, the fact that they left that late for an International flight is really strange.

    It could be that they were having such a great time that parting was really difficult.

    There is no way that they would be on time for any flight unless it was the 4 am flight.

    If so, staying awake all of those hours and drinking had to be rough.
     
  11. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    But if it was nearer 9:30 when they left and they thought it would take a couple of hours, that would have got them to the airport around midnight, which would be enough time.

    I would not be expecting the roads, the car rental office or the airport to be busy at that time of night.
     
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  12. ?mysterian?

    ?mysterian? Well-Known Member

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    Yet they were seen on the Marbella tollbooth camera at 1:41am, IIRC. There must have been a delay at some point, if they left closer to the 9:30-10:00 time. I hope this is being investigated further, not swept aside.
     
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  13. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    I am talking about video from the hotel and the toll booth, not locals running around with cameras nor cameras on rural roads. Check-time at the hotel, toll booth video, hotel video, and lets add flight time and airline as well.

    Gossip and hearsay is not fact. I have also split bottles and have had one drink made with less than a shot. The other couple may have finished it or taken it back to their room, not uncommon when one is leaving and the others staying in an all inclusive resort. In fact, many new friends I have met on such vacations, that is exactly what was done on parting and always right at the end and in no way does it mean you left intoxicated. In fact, our way is to go out to dinner away from the all inclusive and buy the last bottle and dinner for friends, have a token drink with them and provide it to them. I also know many couples where one drinks and the other does not or may have one.

    Regardless, they could have had drinks, maybe even a few too many but no one knows that at least on here, and still been assaulted, car jacked or waylaid, or she could have not had any and been the one driving. There is no documentation whatsoever. The documentation that does and/or should exist has not been provided so why would I assume what happened?

    As to such carjackings and attacks, there is ample information out there about this country and this highway. The warnings also exist for a reason and to rental cars and tourists specifically. There is also a reason we can find this highway named specifically.

    I have not said it was not just a tragic accident but it remains to be seen since again, we have sensationalistic victim blaming headlines and not one bit of actual fact here.

    As for buying into media as fact, let's remember it has been said he was found washed up on shore and just the other day that they pulled him out of the car wrekacage. Just one of many examples. Therefore, I do not give media much credence and take it less than a grain of salt. Times have changed. It used to be if I wanted to read a rag, they were found at the checkout counter at a grocery store with headlines like "celebrity named so and so just had a two headed baby", now it seems most have adopted such a practice.

    It would not be good enough for me at an inquest and it is not good enough for me here.

    But that's just me, to each their own. No one will rush me to a decision anymore than anyone will change your mind in what you apparently have already decided.

    For me, I will wait to see if the family accepts the answers if they come, what our own authorities and departments involved have to say and and the results and any documentation, if ever provided. It is clearly being looked into for a reason by our State Department, congressmen and more, and they are not taking the word from another country without awaiting those answers either. I will go with that.

    jmo.
     
  14. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    It was in ample time. In fact, there is time missing in their travel.
     
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  15. Holl

    Holl Member

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    Does anyone know anything in detail about salt water rusting a submerged car? From what I understand, a few days in salt water will lightly rust a vehicle . While their rental had been submerged well over a week , is it possible it would be this badly rusted, as in the pictures of the car being pulled up to shore that has been released to the public? This car looks rusted, burnt perhaps, and completely mangled. I understand the auto recovery team lost grip of it while dragging it up when the initial recovery took place but when , if ever, will we be certain that this was in fact OM and PR's rental? Has the rental company publically confirmed that this was in fact the car? I am slightly behind on latest news but as of current, I just am having my doubts about many things in this entire situation.
     
  16. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    I believe they have confirmed that the VIN matched the rental car. I think the damage to the vehicle is due to the driving over the cliff and the heavy surf that pounded the car against the cliff wall constantly.
     
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  17. Holl

    Holl Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  18. Nancy Drew RN

    Nancy Drew RN Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why the time the resort was left is in question--surely there were cameras and quite probably guards. As far as check-in, rushing to make flight, etc., once you're checked in online, if you're not checking bags and have a boarding pass pre-printed or on your phone, you just have to make it through security and board. I couldn't tell you the last time I checked in for a flight in person. Many of these low-cost airlines will charge you for any baggage (checked or otherwise) and even printing the ticket. I will say, that even if they knew they would probably miss the flight, I don't think they could have done anything but keep going, (a.) in the hopes that they might make it due to flight delays, not an unrealistic hope with Spirit as the airline, and (b.) for lack of any other option. They had checked out of the resort. It was 1:30 AM. They had nowhere else to go. It would be cheaper to go straight to the airport and try to get on a later flight than to try to find a business open or a hotel room at that hour, and still have to pay for the later flight.
     
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  19. Sleuth15

    Sleuth15 Member

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    Has there been any discussion of seat belts? With seat belts on, the lady may not have been ejected from the car, nor the male's body swept away from the car wreck. I think I read the car is a Kia Sorento, which has had some seatbelt recall issues. I wonder if if the car runs or the seat belt light/bell goes on continuously if the belt not fastened. I could see no signs of seatbelts one way or the other in the wrecked car closeup photo. A very sad tragic event
     
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  20. ilovechili

    ilovechili Well-Known Member

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    I have wondered as well about salt water and rust.

    The rental car company has publicly confirmed nothing. LE there has said the serial number matched but of course like with everything there is no photos, documents or anything else of that and it is amazing and fortunate the serial number survived considering what the car looks like or was decipherable so easily. The hotel has also said nothing publicly. Nor has the airline, whichever one it was. There is no documentation of anything to date including her hospital stay. In fact it has been said she was not even found or taken there until 12 hours after the time of the flight.
     
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