Don't Count Him Out, William Thoresen III

[Winward1]

Good morning all. You may know I commented yesterday on the recent information regarding Thoresen, and the Morrison-Means case, as well as both the lack of comments, but also interest it has drawn in some places.

I also noted it is curious some people who otherwise always seem to be commenting, if not dredging up, the same old information on the same old suspects, mailings, and seemingly unrelated cases (often ones that occurred/surfaced after Thoresen was dead) which go nowhere, have been silent regarding him, except to occasionally slam him as a suspect without saying why.

Case in point, one “Babs Cash” surfaced yesterday in a Zodiac Facebook group. In her new writings she explained it has “been awhile since I last posted,” and she “had to take a break.”

Then she launched into an essay about thrilling Zodiac suspect Larry (yawn) Kane, who she is “pretty much certain” is Zodiac. Then she posted another expansive essay, with photos, on the Donna Lass case.

Lass, of course, died after Thoresen. I don’t know about you, but given the new info on Thorsen, the fact that “Babs” felt the need to surface at this time and posit expansively using old information to support a weak theory which implies Zodiac was still alive in the fall of ’70…well you might recall what I said about the public being played for chumps. (It's not just that they do it. It's that they are so bad at doing it.)

Yes, you can accuse me of trying to hawk my book (I only gave you a taste of it here. I put together a lot more on Thoresen, much of it documented with never before seen stuff. It’s not much more than the price of a couple of beers.) But at least you know I’m not some spook who is probably being paid to post this crap in order to keep you from learning Thoresen was Zodiac, and a whole lot more, eh?

https://www.amazon.com/Zodiac-Maniac-Secret-History-Killer ebook/dp/B07XYDYWQT/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1590026275&sr=8-1

 

[Winward1]

I know of five instances where people have filed FOIA requests for homicide cases I believe have links to Thoresen (one was a request directly pertaining to info on him, a long dead, habitual criminal.) Some of them have numerous Zodiac MOs. All (on cases which at the time of request were pushing 50 years old) were denied.

 

[Winward1]

It's only Saturday morning. But let me make a bold prediction: the recent revelations regarding Thoresen, the Morrison-Means case, documents pertaining to both, and deafening silence regarding all of the above by virtually all of those who have been out front on this case (while apparently pretending they're looking for a solution) for the past quarter century signals the beginning of the end of the mystery surrounding Zodiac.

 

[Winward1]

They say we’re living in the post truth world. When it comes to this case, I’d say it’s been that way since mid-1970.

However, the media didn’t start promoting 400 page books based on a theory with little more behind it than “my stepdad looked like the Zodiac sketch” until recently.

People assume Zodiac didn’t die not long after the Stein murder, and survived a number of years without being caught. This is based on nothing more than mailings that could easily have been concocted by a few insiders who sought to cover their butts. After all, a bogus Zodiac mailing is nothing more than a copy of a copy. Thief that he was, excepting ciphers, Zodiac ripped off that entire schtick.

Ripping off his rip off was easy for anyone who had motive to do so as Thoresen was dead, had inflicted so much damage, much of it while out in the open, outrageously, while playing the system like the spoiled rich punk he was. It would have been more than embarrassing for a number of people if this had been revealed in the 1970s.

They just screwed up the envelopes. That proves they’re fake, it was Thoresen who was speaking, and they have known it all the while (still waiting for the DNA results? A match to the print from the cab?)
And no, in 1971, when they figured out they had screwed up the envelopes, and finally straightened it out, it proves the later mailings were nothing more than that (e.g. no more attacks, sightings or phone calls.)

Now you know the Morrison-Means case includes MOs from most, if not all, proven and suspected Zodiac cases, including Johns. This reveals the suspected ones were him (good work by everyone who made that info available long ago.) The related letter proves the Hautz envelope was addressed by him. Thoresen’s signature proves he wrote both.

That’s called evidence. It’s why the people who have been conspicuously barfing up the same old (sometimes inaccurate) Zodiac info all over the web, 24/7, and shooting down every other new theory, are silent regarding Thoresen, and conspicuously so.

Two examples of evidence found at the Percy crime scene link that case to the Lake Berryessa attacks, another still to Zodiac’s letters. You know the FBI, by admission of one of its agents, planted ridiculous stories about who killed Percy when six years earlier it’s documented they believed it was Thoresen.

You also know, not long after this highly incriminating information regarding Thoresen and Zodiac started to be revealed, my favorite Zodiac Researcher, "Babs Cash", who never seems to write a sentence without following it by an exclamation point, suddenly surfaced again on Facebook! Really, to talk about Kane! It's enough to make you wonder who Babs is working for, and why they haven't fired her.

Maybe you already know, as far back as 1967, staff at the Press newspaper (likely a crime reporter) were suspicious the Hautz letter was written by Bates’ killer. It’s easy to see why. But, between then and now (the Morrison-Means case, and related evidence coming to light) you have Zodiac Killer Facts dot com, a blog, purporting to debunk the Hautz letter.

How is this done? With writing samples from an unnamed source who couldn’t recall writing the letter (which, by the way, it seems no female college student in her right mind would have written.) If you’ve delved into this, you might have wondered why the hard-hitting journalists at Zodiac Killer Facts Dot Com didn’t think of asking the source why she wrote a letter to a newspaper, ostensibly expecting them to publish it, but didn’t sign it. Meanwhile, the article warns readers from trying to locate the source. I wonder why.

I don’t know about you, but if I concocted a blog to spread misinformation about the Zodiac case, I certainly would call it something like Zodiac Killer Facts and put the name over a subhead that states “Debunking Popular Myths and Separating Fact from Fiction.”

Like they say, it’s the post truth world. Nevertheless, you know the facts now, as well as who Zodiac was.

 

[Winward1]

Now you know there’s much evidence proving Thorsen was Zodiac, and it’s conspicuously being ignored by an infinite number of purveyors of Zodiac B.S. (All such purveyors are equal, however. There are those doing it unwittingly, those doing it for profit, and the real pros… doing it to keep secret how he used his money to take advantage of a corrupt, and sometimes inept, criminal justice system, which became even more corrupt in order to keep who he was a secret.)

That brings us to famous, weak Zodiac suspect #1, Arthur Lee Anderson. Why has Anderson been pushed by the powers that be for so long despite the fact that its obvious he’s a go nowhere suspect?

Because they realized his description was just far enough off to keep Zodiac’s description hazy, shrouded in uncertainty, allowing enough wiggle room for the purveyors of B.S. (we’re talking the real pros) to stay in business for the long haul.

By repeating it over and over, and over time, they may have even convinced Hartnell that Zodiac was bigger, and more round than he was. That isn’t to say the hood outfit wasn’t baggy as well.

Speaking of evidence, the documentary kind, you know only a comparatively small number of people have red in their hair, as was described by the Stein murder witnesses. Here’s where his wife documented he was one of those people. It’s her physical description of Zodiac almost 12 years earlier.

 

[Winward1]

Correction, I meant to type all such purveyors (of Zodiac B.S.) are not equal.

 

[Winward1]

I exchanged emails with a talented Zodiac researcher. We discussed books and authors. He stated most writers, in their books, have argued that one suspect, or another, was Zodiac. He’s right.

He explained these writers are biased towards whomever their suspect is. But me? Guilty as charged. Yet, he told me, he’s not biased. He looks at everything, and every suspect without bias.

At some point, while being highly biased, and likely arguing Thoresen was Zodiac, I brought up one of two things. It was either evidence found at the Percy crime scene (a unique clue that had the cops, and me before I was looking at Zodiac, baffled) or it was the Morrison-Means case, on which I had recently stumbled, and that at least one other researcher agrees has Zodiac written all over it.

Whatever it was, my researcher friend flat out refused to discuss these things. (I believe I suggested one of these topics would be good for him to feature in his blog.) I then asked why he won’t. The reason, he explained, is he refuses to believe, 50 years on, that another case could turn up that was likely, if not irrefutably, the work of Zodiac!

At the same time, he explained Thoresen as Zodiac would nullify a large percentage of his work (I seem to recall it was in excess of 50 percent.) This for a case where it seems to me the average observer has been expecting a new Zodiac case to arrive any moment… for decades. This is not to mention others before me have made strong arguments Zodiac was responsible for cases in the midwest.

Meanwhile, my researcher friend has written about all kinds of cases, in the context of Zodiac, which (he explains) can be proven to not be the result of Zodiac. But Morrison-Means? No. Percy? Absolutely not.

Means was tied up with laundry line. Morrison was shot with a .22. The two teens preyed upon by a killer who came across them in a rural area, late at night, when they were in their car. One account says they were run off of the road by their slayer. Like Johns, they were abducted by a killer who claimed (insincerely) he offered to help them. After he killed them, he called police and took credit for the crime, and wrote a letter to one of the victims’ parents. The handwriting in the letter is a dead ringer for that on the Hautz envelope (which ties him to Bates’ killing.) And this happened smack dab between the Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs Park attacks.

But…hey, it’s 50 years later. I’m not biased! It just couldn’t have been Zodiac. Especially not in Thoresen’s home state. All of which indicates it was Zodiac, and Zodiac was Thoresen, a killer who not only meets anyone’s expectations of who Zodiac was, but exceeds them.

 

[Winward1]

Typical Zodiac blogs, and websites, list eight to ten “top” suspects. Fifty freaking years and they’re talking about eight to ten suspects. And in a case where the guy was mailing his DNA all over town (plus the midwest.)

Any case has eight to ten suspects after a year you know they’re all equally crappy. After 50 years you have to wonder if its part of an ulterior motive (as to why anyone’s trying to sell that there could possibly be that many) or they just have no clue.

How conspicuous it is Thoresen, whom none of them will touch, isn’t one of them.

 

[Winward1]

Good morning.

This is not the Zodiac Speaking.

And it was not the Zodiac speaking in the letter postmarked June, 26, 1970, and all that followed because he, Thoresen, was dead, which is why Zodiac was not seen, made no calls, and attacked no one since.

It was the feds who were speaking. And they did it through the SFPD, the Chicago Sun-Times, and others they made carry their water. Anyone who looks with a skeptical eye towards all the rubbish that’s been written since can see it.

They did it again few years ago, in Chicago, in a successful effort to keep 50 year old police reports secret. They’re still doing it on Zodiac Killer barf dot com, and 36 other sites, plus social media.

But they screwed up the envelopes. They have always overplayed their hand, which is why they write authoritatively about “separating fact from fiction,” when it’s clear they do the opposite.

What would Thoresen/Zodiac think of the Halloween card? I think he would have laughed at it.

More importantly, though, something has started. It is the unravelling of the Zodiac mystery. But a trickle now, every day more people will wrap their heads around it. Eventually, the trickle will become a stream, and the stream a river.

Others will find more things that link Thoresen to Zodiac, and probably to other cases. In fact, I've already seen it. Because the truth, no matter how strange or incredible, will undermine any other version of events.

 

[Winward1]

For obvious reasons, numerous times, I’ve seen people refer to the Texarkana Phantom case in the context of Zodiac case.

But not due to what I learned from that case: just because it wasn’t solved doesn’t mean the cops didn’t think they knew who did it. In the case of the Phantom they put their suspect in jail and the murders stopped.

This made me realize anything’s possible, like a rich serial killer playing the system to the hilt until he was physically, mentally, and financially wrecked, so much so that near the end he picks up a victim and drives her around until she jumps out of his car.

Then his wife blasts him to Kingdom Come. She tells the cops everything he confessed to, right there at the police station in (then) sleepy little Fresno, California.

Included is the murder of the daughter who a US Senator. Their federal overlords realize the killer’s death has created a bomb that would send shockwaves through the justice system. This is ironic, after all the threats he made while living to set off actual bombs.

So they start planting stories containing misinformation, a tradition their heirs continue on the internet. They have no interest in solving the case, just regurgitating the leads and suspects who go nowhere.

 

[Winward1]

Starting today, victims of another notorious California serial killer will face off against their tormentor in a courtroom.

Victims of Zodiac will never have this opportunity, however, because William Thoresen has been dead for 50 years. And that’s not just a theory. The proof is in this thread.

It’s also proof there are people who, almost certainly and to this day, have worked to deny Zodaic’s victim’s the opportunity to know the truth. People he shot, people he stabbed, people whose parent was taken from them when they were a but a toddler.

And they continue to do it. This, in a nutshell, means the victims have not only been victimized by Zodiac, but those who have worked, and continue to work, to keep the truth covered up.

I’ve stood, and watched, and listened to them as they spew their B.S. in a “court of law”. I’ve watched as the media repeat the B.S., questioning it not, though it’s clear it’s B.S., and move on as though what they do passes as journalism (I guess that’s no surprise given all else they do not question, and do not cover, these days eh?)

Some of them aren’t in the media, but they’re liars nonetheless. Some of them are bullies (more on this to come.) And they haven’t just done it in California, but in the Midwest, where he killed people’s brothers, and sisters, and friends.

That said, it’s not too late for Zodiac’s victims to learn the truth, though the case is significantly older than the Golden State Killer case, and no one’s getting any younger. Despite this, like with other news in this country, I believe it will one day be an open secret who Zodiac was. Perhaps it will be soon.

 

[Winward1]

A map for you.

 

[Winward1]

I saw the recent news. Fires reached the Lake Berryessa area. The attacks there were the first involving Zodiac that I suspected William Thoresen for. On some level, though the flames there at this time are not coincidental, they seem metaphorical, as if they’re not only burning brush and trees but through the mystery, myths, B.S. and, yes, lies that have shrouded the killer of Cecelia Sheppard, Bryan Hartnell, and who knows how many others for so long.

 

[Winward1]

Oops, I meant the flames there at this time are coincidental.

As for Thoresen's guilt, this piece of evidence certainly is not.

Elsewhere, I see someone is questioning whether the FBI, or other government agency, has known who Zodiac was for quite some time.

 

[Forsakenfoe]

I know who the real Zodiac Killer was. I cracked some of the codes, found the clues, and then tracked him down. I even know who his last "Zodiac" victim is. I know the exact moment he chose his name - and why.

I contacted the FBI. I offered the evidence to them. The operators there seem more incompetent than anything. As soon as you say "Zodiac," you can tell by the tone of their voice that any credibility has been lost.

I have this mountain of evidence and nobody appears to want to know who he is. One could assume it's because who his father was... Or maybe because so many people have been fingered in the process, they really don't care to investigate anymore?

All I know is - It's like I've found the Holy Grail and not a pawn shop in town wants a piece of it.

The best part is - in true Websleuth fashion, I did it all in a week on my prepaid cellphone. Maybe I should burn the evidence? Give the next guy a try? If I'm not taken seriously soon, and my health continues to fail, I might as well. It's like walking around with a recipe for a serial killer in your back pocket.

Maybe the mystery alone is what drives it? The answers alone would topple the trend? Or maybe it's time people found out who the Websleuths are and what we really are capable of?

Send me some feedback. What would you do in my literal (not hypothetical) situation?

 

[Winward1]

Depends how much information there is. If it requires a book, put one out. I had to do the former. If it doesn't, start a thread. As for my suspect, I'm sure I've missed things others will connect regarding him, these crimes, and others I'm unaware of.

As far as law enforcement goes them deeming letters to be legit that arrived in envelopes that veer far from established MOs (not to mention the contents of the letters), keeping files pertaining to half-century-old cases secret, denying FOIA requests seeking information on equally old cases, having planted ridiculous stories in the media implying those other than their prime suspect was responsible (and which contradict reports written by their agents years earlier) and (apparently conveniently) not having made progress with DNA on a suspect who was almost certainly mailing his DNA all over town, it seems their reputation is already shot. Unless they make some progress regarding some of these things, it would seem they are irrelevant.

This isn't to say local police knew things they didn't know. I think they want old cases solved. It appears they don't call the shots.

Taking aim at the online Zodiac authorities isn't a bad idea, either. One has to question the motivation behind their "work". Them ignoring Thoresen I think tells one a lot.

 

[Winward1]

I don't believe I told anyone how I was kicked out of a Facebook Zodiac group six months to a year ago. Was I swearing? No. Was I posting things political? Not a chance. Did I insult someone, or otherwise break some group rule? Not that I can tell.

So why do I think they banned me? Well, you know how I made reference to certain persons who seem to be all over these groups, some also seem prominent elsewhere on the web with their own sites, acting like so-called authorities on this case. They posit as if they're working to move the case forward though it seems like they do little more than constantly dredge up old info on unlikely suspects.

But since I started posting this stuff which actually is new (Morrison-Means and Percy case Zodiac connections, etcetera) and evidence highly incriminating to Thoresen, it's been crickets from them.

That said, I believe I was kicked out of said group for making too many good points that Thoresen killed Cheri Jo Bates. It was then I experienced how bullying and cop like some of these people can be. Put that together with their conspicuous silence on all of the above (including how easy it is to see through their work, which they claim "separates fact from fiction" is) and how none of these cases have been solved while dozens of old cases are being solved on a monthly basis these days, and well you might just see what's been going on here.

By the way, not only was I not swearing when I was kicked out of the group, one of its moderators wrote a PM to me and in so doing swore at me. He said they were "tired of my sh**t." He didn't elaborate as to just what my "sh**t" was. Nice moderator, huh?

 

[Winward1]

I have some more evidentiary things to post but haven't had the time. Meanwhile, super sleuth Babs Cash is back on Facebook, posting videos and photos that break no new ground, and garnering opinions backed by nothing. But she's still got the exclamation point thing going!

Elsewhere, recently, I saw someone ponder whether Zodiac was smart, or reckless and lucky. They seemed to think it was more of the latter. I can tell you I have files on Thoresen that reveal he was reckless going back to his teenage years.

 

[Winward1]

I believe I pointed out how there have been 8 to 10 suspects (if not more) who are constantly discussed in endless chatter, and how this in itself is suspect (no pun intended.)

What other case, after 50 years, has 8 to ten suspects still being kicked around? Why would there be? Has the work on the case (other than the fake letters that have been deemed real) actually been that bad?

On none other than this site a new thread was started in the past 24 hours regarding a new Zodiac podcast where the poster promises "we will take an in depth look at a large selection of the main suspects."

At the very least, anyone doing this is wasting your time. In other worlds, who hasn't been doing this for the past two decades?

If they haven't whittled down the "large selection of the main suspects" to eliminate the ones who clearly didn't do it they either have no idea who did it, or they're dredging up crap to keep what actually happened secret because it's embarrassing to those in power. (In other worlds, they're working for somebody. And some of these people have done a darn poor job of it as you can see.)

How do I know this? I wrote a book about an unsolved 1960s case. It was one of the most investigated cases of that decade, or any since. It's the only one, bar none including Zodiac, I have heard of where a full-time investigator was assigned to the case for the first year and a half.

There were thousands of leads, in state and out, investigated by local cops, state cops, FBI, the DA's office, detectives requested from the city, a dozen or so investigative agencies total. The number of suspects ran into the hundreds.

After interviewing five police sources, including one who originally ran the case and one who is currently, for years, and reviewing their materials (in addition to many news stories) you know how many suspects actually held up when subject to a halfway decent evidentiary review process?

Two or three. You know who is the best one by far? Thoresen. You know which one had never been publicly named in hundreds of news stories that covered the investigation? Thoresen.

You know which one is—or can be—tied to old cases where FOIA requests have been routinely denied, a former FBI agent has admitted to planting dubious stories about, and which blogs masquerading as journalism try but fail to debunk documents that are clearly tied to murders? Thoresen.

You know which one witness statements and evidence from Zodiac cases point directly at as culpable for Stein, Lake Berryessa, etc? Thoresen. You know which one is not mentioned in endless chatter about Kane, Allen, Kaczynski...Thoresen.

Expect the podcasts to continue. Maybe they can track down Babs Cash. She could probably talk though ten episodes, and might have a top 100 suspects list. Maybe the podcast is by Babs as the post says "Please feel free to check out the podcast and follow it, to make sure you keep an eye out for new episodes as they will be released every day!"

The exclamation point is the giveaway. She can't end a sentence without one. Is gratuitous use of ! now required to be hired at the FBI? It's been reported that morale is terrible there but this is ridiculous.

 

[Winward1]

I am splitting posts up between various sites. Here's one you might find interesting:

SUSPECT: William Thoresen III | Ophion's Crypt