DOUBLE LOOP KNOT: JonBenet was posed

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BlueCrab, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    From the JonBenet Ramsey autopsy report a glaring item of evidence has seemingly gone unnoticed. When coroner John Meyer described the length of 1/4 inch white nylon cord ligature that had bound JonBenet's wrists together, but which John Ramsey admits he untied, Meyer described it this way:

    "Tied loosely around the right wrist, overlying the sleeve of the shirt, is a white cord. At the knot there is one tail end which measures 5.5 inches in length with a frayed end. The other tail of the knot measures 15.5 inches in length and ends in a double loop knot. This end of the cord is also frayed."

    The coroner, of course, didn't explain the purpose of the double loop knot, since his job was to describe only what was in front of him. But there appears to be no purpose for the double loop knot other than to attach the two loops to JonBenet's ankles -- one around each ankle.

    There was only so much cord on this length. With the wrists bound together and the ankles bound together with the same length of cord, it means JonBenet had likely been in a semi hog-tied position. Her hands and her feet were bound close to each other. To accomplish this the body had to be on its back and bent sharply at the waist until the legs were pointing straight up to meet the hands, which we know were pointing directly over her head.

    (To help illustrate this position, draw a picture of a person doing a jack-knife dive into a swimming pool; then turn your drawing upside down. OR draw a picture of a person standing erect and bending at the waist while trying to touch his toes; then turn the picture upside down.)

    IOW, JonBenet was apparently posed in a grotesque position for shock value. Her back was on the floor, legs and arms over her head, and held into this position by the nylon cord between the ankles and the wrists (wrist ligature on one end and the double loop knot for the ankles on the other end). The cord was then likely looped over the back of a piece of heavy furniture or a stationary object to keep the body from falling over.

    IMO the double loop knot is convincing evidence JonBenet was probably sadisically posed. There appears to be no other explanation for the two loops on the double loop knot the coroner described in the autopsy report.

    (To help illustrate what I'm talking about, I would very much appreciate someone posting a crimescene photo of the two cords after they were taken from JonBenet's body. Thanks.)

    BlueCrab
     
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  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    BlueCrab,

    You could be correct, I mentioned before that she may have been hogtied, and I used that term for just this situation.

    I do not have enough evidence to distinguish her being posed, a prior staging event, or the cord being remnants from her actual death.

    Although I doubt that EA was a factor, this does not exclude other similar scenarios, such as bondage, JonBenet deliberately being made helpless for someone else's pleasure, then something goes wrong, and the binding is undone and later re-arranged?

    Your remarks are yet another piece of evidence to suggest the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene.


    .
     
  4. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    Which could fall in line with J Walsh's statement.

    Would lividity bear out this scenario you described?
     
  5. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Nehemiah,

    Yes, the autopsy supports JonBenet lying on her back. It says:

    "Examination of the back is unremarkable. There is dorsal 3+ to 4+ livor mortis which is nonblanching. Livor mortis is also present on the right side of the face."

    So it appears almost all of the blood that settled to cause livor mortis to form on JonBenet did so in her back. JonBenet, hogtied and strung up by the arms and legs, would have caused exactly this type of blood pooling.

    Of course, JonBenet's head was turned to the right and likely drooping -- so some blood would have pooled on the right side of her face since it couldn't drain downward by gravity because of the extremely tightened ligature around the neck.

    BlueCrab
     
  6. solidarity

    solidarity New Member

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    Wasn't it said that John rushed JB's body upstairs, while in rigor mortis, with his arms extended forward? I dare say it would've been very difficult for him to pick her up, and carry her up the stairs, while stiff in the position you're suggesting.
     
  7. capps

    capps New Member

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    BlueCrab,

    You think that JonBenet;once in rigor,her arms and legs were raised towards the ceiling? Am I understanding this correctly?
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    solidarity,

    To answer your question I have to go into some detail. Please remember the Ramseys have been caught in numerous verified lies about what actually happened that morning. They started lying with the 911 call and never stopped lying. We have trapped John in many of those lies, including his claim of not finding the body prior to 1:05 PM on the 26th.

    IOW, I'm saying that John didn't originally find JonBenet's body at 1:05 PM. He found it much earlier. For instance, John denies he searched the basement that morning looking for a "missing" JonBenet -- but from his own testimony during the police interviews we've proved he was in the basement prior to the 911 call (his chair in front of the door statement).

    IMO he found her "strung up" obscenely about 10 hours before 1:05 PM, at around 3:00 AM, and in the hogtied position. She had likely been dead for about two hours. He cut her down and re-staged the crime scene to give JonBenet a measure of dignity in death and to help make the murder appear to be the work of an intruder. This was obviously designed to shed suspicion away from a Ramsey family member.

    Therefore, JonBenet's torso was not in full rigor at 3:00 AM and could be moved. However, the arms go into rigor prior to the inner core of the body, so the arms were set in rigor over her head by 3:00 AM, so he had to leave the arms as they were. Livor mortis had already set, so the body could be moved without disturbing it.

    But the second time John "found" JonBenet it was 1:05 PM -- around 12 hours after death, and by then she was in full rigor. Thus, when John carried JonBenet up the stairs from the basement her body and legs were in alignment but her arms were straight over her head. And you're right; he carried her like a wooden plank with his arms held straight out in front of him.

    BlueCrab
     
  9. capps

    capps New Member

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    I would think the cord would have had to be tied around her ankles pretty tightly.Don't you think that marks would show on her ankles during autopsy?
     
  10. capps

    capps New Member

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    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

    Here's a link to ACR site with the pictures of the cord,removed from JonBenet's body. There are small pictures to the left,you may have to scroll down a bit to see the ones you are interested in.

    Hope it works.

    WARNING: Graphic pictures of the autopsy,if you don't want to see them.I suggest you don't open the link!
     
  11. capps

    capps New Member

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  12. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    capps,

    It seems as though there would be abrasions on the ankles from the double loop knot, but there was definitely a ligature on JonBenet's wrists and there were no abrasions there either.

    However, the autopsy report did say this:

    "On the posterior aspect of the left lower leg, almost in the midline, 4 inches above the level of the heel are two small scratch-like abrasions which are dried and rust colored. They measure one-sixteenth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch and one-eighth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch respectively."

    These two scratch-like abrasions are about where one of the loops would have been wrapped around an ankle.

    BlueCrab
     
  13. aussiesheila

    aussiesheila Inactive

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    BlueCrab, you say that you think that immediately after JonBenet was killed she was tied in a "diver jacknife" position, so since the length of rope was 15.5 inches, her ankles would have been tied no more than 15.5 inches away from her wrists. If several hours later when you say John found her and her arms were set in rigor over her head and he had to leave them as they were, how was he able to align the legs straight with the body? Wouldn't they have been set in full rigor also, at 90 degrees or less to the torso?
     
  14. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    THANK YOU CAPPS,

    Using the first crimescene photo (showing both cords), I'll try to explain my theory.

    First of all, you may note that the 17" tail end of the ligature neck cord, with the stick tied onto the end of it, wanders off the top of the page at the upper left. The stick isn't shown.

    Likewise, the double loop knot is shown at the lower right part of the photo, but the 15.5" tail containing the wrist knot wanders off the top of the page at the upper right. The knot that was on the wrists isn't shown, nor is the 5.5" tail end that extends from the wrist knot.

    It appears the photo was cropped, making it appear that the double loop knot may have been on the wrists, but it was not on the wrists. The wrist ligature knot isn't shown because it appears it was cropped out of the photo .

    The double loop knot is shown in the lower right part of the photo, and IMO this is what held the legs at the ankles.

    To recap -- the neck ligature is on the left side of the photo, with the tail end with the stick on it cropped out of the photo at the top; the wrist ligature knot would be at the right top of the photo but is not shown because it has also been cropped off the top of the photo; and the ankle double loop knot is on the lower right hand side of the picture.

    If you study the photo and simultaneously read the autopsy report describing the two cords and their respective lengths you will see that I'm correct.

    The crimescene photo has apparently been tampered with and cropped to make it look like something it isn't, but I'm convinced JonBenet was posed, and the double loop knot proves it.

    BlueCrab
     
  15. aussiesheila

    aussiesheila Inactive

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    Isn't 'garotte5' a photo of the two wrist loops joined by 15.5 inches of cord, the middle bit of which is cropped out and 'garotte4' a photo of the neck ligature with the broken stick and part of the 17 inches of cord between the stick and the loop knot cropped out?
     
  16. aussiesheila

    aussiesheila Inactive

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  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    aussiesheila,

    It appears you are partly right. You are right about 'garotte5' being a photo of only the wrist ligature and the double loop knot. The photo does not contain the image of the neck ligature. 'garotte4' is a photo of the neck ligature.

    However, you are wrong about the double loop knot (shown in the lower right part of the photo) being the wrist ligatures. There was only one wrist ligature holding the two wrists together. That's why, after she was "cut down" by John Ramsey, the loop relaxed and was loosely hanging on the right wrist and had fallen completely off the left wrist. The wrist ligature is the single large loop toward the left side of the picture.

    That leaves the double loop knot. What was its purpose? IMO it held the two ankles together, in effect hogtying JonBenet (with the same length of cord tying both wrists and both ankles) with legs indecently straight up in the air for maximum shock power. There is evidence of other indignities inflicted on JonBenet's body, and that is likely one of the reasons she was cleaned up and fresh panties put on her after death.

    BlueCrab
     
  18. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    A message to all WS posters,

    The double loop knot exists. It's a fact. If you don't agree with my hypothesis that the double loop knot was employed to bind JonBenet's legs at the ankles, thus indecently posing her, then please give me YOUR opinion on how the double loop knot was used in this crime and we'll discuss it. Thanks.

    BlueCrab
     
  19. capps

    capps New Member

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    Quote by BlueCrab,
    "That leaves the double loop knot. What was its purpose? IMO it held the two ankles together,..."

    BlueCrab,

    I'm not disputing,just questioning ...
    I can understand the one loop maybe holding both her wrists,but the double loop knot,one is significantly smaller than the other.So small that it seems even to small for an ankle,without it be extemely tight.In fact if the smaller loop was around her ankle,I can't imagine how Dr.Meyers was able to get it off past her foot without cutting it.

    Any thoughts?
     
  20. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    capps,

    Depending on how it was tied, the double loop knot on the ankles could have loosened up immediately when the weight of the body was removed from it.

    Also, the foot size of six-year-old 45-pound females isn't very big.

    BlurCrab
     
  21. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    The double-loop knot wasn't necessarily used on JBR's ankles. The wrists were not necessarily bound by the single loop. JR didn't necessarily 'cut down' JBR, so no loop necessarily 'relaxed' and 'fell off the left wrist. These are all assumptions.

    The only fact is that the larger loop was loosely hanging on the right wrist. All else is conjecture.
     

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