Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[sloane7777]

What about the stun gun, the garrot, the unknown DNA? Wrapping her in a blanket? A lot of planning. The crime in my opinion speaks of someone (a stranger)who was obsessed with JS. The Ramsey's hosted an open house Christmas party days before the murder. Perfect opportunity for a child predator to scope out the house and plan a break in when the Ramsey's were gone. The stranger probably was in the house hiding when they got home that night lying in wait.

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parents!!!!!!

 

[sloane7777]

you know they have gone thru all visitors with a fine tooth comb , I think it would have come out by now

 

[asyousay]

For me it's not even just the smiling and the manic grin , he shows no empathy when talking about Jon and the crime. I would expect some anger that 20 years on there has been no justice for his younger sister. That he has no questions about why her and not him. If I had snuck out of bed and gone downstairs and was playing with toys for awhile and woke up to the news my sister had been killed in the night by a stranger when I had been wondering about even if that at time he didn't want to think about it , surely as he grew up he would ask himself questions about that night?!

 

[minazoe]

Burke admitting that he was downstairs with his toy, after everyone was asleep.
At a time the intruder should have been in the house...proves the Ramsey's have been lying for near 20 years.
It can't be denied. Burke just flipped the script.

This.

 

[Madeleine74]

Nah... the Ramsey's will just move the time forward. Burke may have been up at midnight or so, but he was probably back to bed before 2am, so if one is intent on saying an "intruder" did it, and some are intent on just that, then they'll just say the intruder hid somewhere until after Burke went back to bed. PR claims she got up around 5:30am.

This was a very patient intruder we had here. He/they were willing to hide out in the Ramsey home for umteen hours waiting for their prey, which of course was only JBR, not anyone else.

 

[minazoe]

Also, let's say, you snuck out of your room and witnessed something awful happening as a child...I imagine one way of coping is completely internalizing it and making it go away, therefore you just repeat what you hear the adults saying happened.

Interesting...

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I agree. Nine year olds are not dumb and do understand death. I recall my grandfather dying and still feel sad about losing him. There's no smile, grinning or inappropriate laughter.
We need to stop saying nine year olds are not capable of emotions or killing because they are. Something is extremely wrong with Burke, his demeanor is chilling. This isn't typical for spectrum autism either. I'd love to see a psychologists eval of him. Not paid for by his dear old dad either.

A natural death is extremely different from a sudden, violent death. Natural deaths aren't traumatic in the same way. (My apologies if your grandfather was violently murdered in your home.)

Deaths which are sudden or the result of a traumatic event pose special problems for the survivor. In addition to the typical signs of grief such as anger, denial, sadness and guilt, survivors may feel:

Shock
Increased vulnerability
Physical or emotional fear and anxiety

Very often the grief response is intensified because there is little or no opportunity to prepare for the death.

https://www.seton.net/medical-servi.../grief-following-a-sudden-or-traumatic-death/

A Sudden Loss is one that occurs without any forewarning. A Traumatic Death is one that is sudden, unanticipated, violent, mutilating or destructive, random and/or preventable, involves multiple deaths or one in which the mourner has a personal encounter with death

<snip>

Death due to a sudden or traumatic accident or disaster can raise a number of complex issues for the survivors. The grief process is often very different from an expected or anticipated death. Homicide, suicide, or exceptionally tragic events can cause reactions such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder on the part of survivors and family members. Sudden loss or death creates special problems for the survivors. Many of these problems compound the grief response.

http://www.journeyofhearts.org/grief/accident2.html



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[oceanblueeyes]

If PR was up all night with the situation...the head injury happened and then 3 hours later the garrote...then maybe she was going on fumes and out of her mind (as one would expect) so she may not have been thinking very clearly when writing the faux ransom note (also did she have wine at the White's party?). Also, they couldn't remove evidence or JBR from the home because they could have been seen by neighbors driving off and would need to explain that to the police. I think JBR was hidden to be removed at a later time. I don't know why they wouldn't have hid the notepad and pen too except maybe they worried those things would be discovered by LE and then need an explanation on why they were hidden.

I highly respect your opinion on this case like I do everyone whether they are in agreement with me or not. I rarely post about JB because I know the majority are onboard with one/two or all Ramseys being involved in her murder. However; even though I don't post often I have kept up with the case closely since it happened, both here, and elsewhere. My opinion hasn't changed just like others haven't changed in 20 years either.

Respectfully, that makes it even more incomprehensible to me to believe if she was up all night, exhausted, tired, and foggy headed from wine that she would have the clear cognitive ability to then be able to write and then rewrite a long ransom note that pointed suspicion at them instead of the unknown killer on top of knowing the light of her life lay murdered and was left for all to see in the most inhumane way imaginable. While I know many didn't like Patsy's demeanor throughout I never saw a guilty mother who would ever harmed the daughter who meant everything to her. There is no evidence that either parent was ever abusive to any of their children. There is no way I can ever see Patsy Ramsey sitting there calmly thinking of what to write and rewrite while her daughter lay dead.

It doesn't make any sense that they did it and planned to take her out of the home at a later time. When they called 911 they expected the police would search the entire home as is always done. There was no way for either one of them to know her body would be overlooked. So respectfully, I just don't agree with that.

There is no assurances whatsoever, imo, that any of the neighbors would have seen them in the middle of the night. Murderers who were total strangers have taken young children right out of their own homes and no one who lived around them was the wiser nor saw or heard a thing. The parents inside of the home didn't even hear anything yet the child was gone when they got up and later on found murdered. Even parents who have murdered their children have taken their children's bodies out of their home and then pretended they were missing. In several unsolved cases no one saw the parents leaving either. So saying someone would have seen them or heard them just isn't a fact. Murderers are always high risk takers when they are trying to distance themselves from the murder/s they commit.

The ransom note if written by Patsy was to affirm JB had been kidnapped so if something happened where she couldn't be transported from her home all they had to do is tear up the ransom note. The ransom note written by the true killer of JB did as it was designed to do and that is to make the Ramseys look like fools and he achieved his goal. The killer knew she would be found eventually in her own home. It was the cruel joke he gleefully played on the Ramseys knowing how it all was going to end. He wanted them to have hope she was alive and then when they found out she wasn't it would be an even harder blow to take especially knowing she lay horrifically murdered in their very own home. He mocked them, twisting them inside and out with his cruel game he played with their emotions. He wanted them to know he could take their beautiful little daughter right from her own bed and do horrific things to her right under their nose as they all slept. The ransom note was written for the sole purpose to cast immediate suspicions on the Ramseys and it worked like a charm and has for 20 years for most who believe in their involvement. The ransom note made them all look like suspicious bumbling fools and that is exactly the revenge he sought and did. He took their brightest star, he invaded their safe space, he sadistically toyed with their emotions and he wrote the ransom note in such a way he knew they would look like fools which would direct the suspicion on them instead of him.

I wish the very best for Burke even though I wish he had never done this interview. However; he does have to have inner strength for even being able to do the interview knowing how most have vilified him and his parents and found them guilty in the court of public opinion instead of in a court of law which actually requires evidence to prove each allegation/claim. Imo, Burke knows he did not harm his sister and he knows his mom and dad had no part in it either and no one can take that away from him.

I just read this morning about a 43 year old cold case being solved concerning two young girls. They finally got a DNA match that tied the suspects to their murders. I hope one day the same will happen for JBs murder.

 

[asyousay]

If the ransom note was real then no loving parent wound call the cops straight away when somebody was holding your daughter hostage and could kill her at any moment which the note implied. They completely ignored the note because they knew nobody was watching them and Jon Benet was already dead.

IMO

 

[UKGuy]

I just watched Dr Phil, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Watching Burke answer all those questions and his reaction was priceless. Is there anyone who knows what LHP said about BR and JonBenet regularly playing doctors, and BR denying at the end of the show that he ever touched JonBenet, all with a smile too?

The big takeaway for me is BR admitting being downstairs, after everyone else was in bed, and that his baseball bat was found outdoors. I think the smiling and fidgeting with his hands is just him exhibiting nerves, he is probably thinking if I smile lots people will like me. His verbal replies contrast with his smiley demeanor, e.g. absolutely not. Once when answering no to a direct question I noticed him look down to the right with his eyes, away from Dr-Phil, made him look real suspicious.

I think there must be forensic evidence linking BR down to the basement, for him to admit sneaking down after going to bed, since that's why he will have replied maybe to the pineapple question. His prints are on the glass, his touch-dna is on the pink barbie nightgown, so he knows he cannot deny it outright?

Apart from those crazy ads and JR popping up, I guess so they could edit out out any negative BR sequences, it was better than I expected. I hope Dr-Phil questions BR about those Partially Opened Christmas Gifts next Monday?

.

 

[merribe]

A natural death is extremely different from a sudden, violent death. Natural deaths aren't traumatic in the same way. (My apologies if your grandfather was violently murdered in your home.)

Deaths which are sudden or the result of a traumatic event pose special problems for the survivor. In addition to the typical signs of grief such as anger, denial, sadness and guilt, survivors may feel:

Shock
Increased vulnerability
Physical or emotional fear and anxiety

Very often the grief response is intensified because there is little or no opportunity to prepare for the death.

https://www.seton.net/medical-servi.../grief-following-a-sudden-or-traumatic-death/

A Sudden Loss is one that occurs without any forewarning. A Traumatic Death is one that is sudden, unanticipated, violent, mutilating or destructive, random and/or preventable, involves multiple deaths or one in which the mourner has a personal encounter with death

<snip>

Death due to a sudden or traumatic accident or disaster can raise a number of complex issues for the survivors. The grief process is often very different from an expected or anticipated death. Homicide, suicide, or exceptionally tragic events can cause reactions such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder on the part of survivors and family members. Sudden loss or death creates special problems for the survivors. Many of these problems compound the grief response.

http://www.journeyofhearts.org/grief/accident2.html



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Thank you for this. I think that is a really important point. I tried to add this before in response to your response to my other comment (thanks for clarification re: longer comment equaling "book"!) but I was logged out. I have had my own experience and I think when there is more attention brought to it (perhaps when it is an "unusual" sudden event), you have people asking you questions often, at least early on. Presumably even if he was not publicly talking about this, someone was talking to him, whether therapist, other family, schoolmates, etc. and he was aware at least of all the attention.

Then, as time goes by (this is also based on the individual), it can be hard to talk about and part of that is the way people respond to talking about it, which I found at times could be jarring, insensitive, whether they meant it to be or not (and likely they did not mean it to be). People will often say the "wrong" thing and feel uncomfortable so you may start anticipating that and it can be even harder to talk about. What Burke R. went through is a huge, complex, horrible life event no matter what. I would imagine preparing for a television show, like this, after not having talked about it, at least publicly, that would be hard, and then, if, perhaps, the person is avoiding certain aspects of what transpired (not sure if he was), that would be even harder.

It is intense watching parts of these interviews with him. I am not sure what to make of the smiling aspect and the way he responds but, when I thought of it in light of the above, it shifted a little. And maybe he is not articulating everything in the most "sensitive" way but so much of how it later unfolded was so peculiar, just the fact that he was separated from his parents right away is so intense in itself, even if the idea of sending him away was "protecting" him. If they didn't talk to him about her murder much at all, I think that would interfere with the grieving process in itself. just some thoughts ...

 

[BBB167893]

Through the years while most are convinced the ransom note was written by Pasty its the ransom note that has made me feel they weren't involved and other things found at the scene. The Ramseys aren't uneducated bumbling fools by any means. So why would Patsy write a ransom note that pointed more toward them being involved than an unknown killer.

Patsy was not an experienced criminal and knew very little about them. I'm sure she figured the note was just the thing, then.

From what I have read John's bonus check wasn't for $118K in even money. Anytime bonuses are given there are many who will know about the transaction beforehand and when it is written. People in offices talk and it isn't uncommon to comment on who got a bonus and the amount given.

So why would Patsy putdown $118K knowing that would look suspicious for them?

Maybe she figured it wouldn't; that it would lead to someone in the AG company or one of her employees.

Why would Patsy use her own notepad to write and rewrite the ransom note if she was trying to blame some unknown?

Whose notepad was she supposed to use?! They didn't have unlimited time. And her thinking was probably not the clearest at that point.

Why would she leave the notepad in their home to easily be found? Even elementary children know how to pencil shadow over a piece of paper to make the writing become visible?

Same reason she had the same clothes on: wasn't thinking that far ahead.

Why would she use her own paintbrush and leave it at the scene?

Like I said, whose paintbrush could she have used? And it had to be left at the scene because it was tied up.

If she was pretending that JB had been kidnapped then why hide the body in their own home? If they were going with the ransom claim then they would have removed JBs body from her home.

Maybe they thought about that and figured the risk of being spotted was too high. They can explain their own stuff in their own house a lot better. Besides, the note said if they called anyone, JB would die.

They had no set time to call 911 and plenty of time to remove anything that pointed to them. They did not. Why would Patsy write a ransom note making her family look suspicious if they were trying to get away with this?

Like I said, I'm sure she didn't see it that way.

The ransom note is the very thing that has convinced me that none of the Ramseys are involved. No killer writes a ransom note bring suspicion on themselves. IMO

No, but all of them make mistakes. If they didn't, they'd never get caught.

And Patsy is supposedly is calmly writing and rewriting all of this when the child she loved more than anything on earth is lying dead brutally murdered? Nope, I don't believe it for one second.

I don't think she was all that "calm," as you put it. I think it was all she could do to keep it together.

There is no way that Patsy Ramsey would have left JB looking like she did when discovered either. She was obsessed with JB and her beauty and when found JB would have been looking like a little sleeping Princess. IMO.

That's my point, OCB: that's how she WAS found. Except for the cord, she did look like that. John himself said she looked very peaceful. Most people who die violent deaths LOOK like people who die violent deaths. JB was clean, her hair in ponytails, a sequinned-star shirt on. And I can't be the first person to point out that JB's injuries were nothing an undertaker couldn't fix.

I have researched other cases through the years to see if any other parents who murdered their children did it this way or even similar and have found none.

Which proves what, exactly?

 

[asyousay]

I honestly don't see how sending Burke away that morning was protecting him. He must of been deeply distressed and he should of remained with his parents who would of given him the emotional support him he would of needed and also there was murderer on the loose so why would you let him out of your sight when one child had just been killed ?!

He was sent away so he could not be questioned as that's the only logical explanation imo

 

[BBB167893]

Respectfully, that makes it even more incomprehensible to me to believe if she was up all night, exhausted, tired, and foggy headed from wine that she would have the clear cognitive ability to then be able to write and then rewrite a long ransom note that pointed suspicion at them instead of the unknown killer on top of knowing the light of her life lay murdered and was left for all to see in the most inhumane way imaginable.

Well, number one, adrenaline has an amazing ability to clear one's head of things like that; two, I doubt she did it alone; three, I have to STRONGLY disagree with your characterization of JB being left in "the most inhumane way imaginable." Frankly, that's just it: it WASN'T the most inhumane way imaginable. Just off the top of my head, I can think of far more degrading and debasing ways. No, this girl was laid out in a blanket, protected from the elements as though she were sleeping. It's a giveaway.

While I know many didn't like Patsy's demeanor throughout I never saw a guilty mother who would ever harmed the daughter who meant everything to her. There is no evidence that either parent was ever abusive to any of their children.

That's what they were counting on people seeing, OCB.

There is no way I can ever see Patsy Ramsey sitting there calmly thinking of what to write and rewrite while her daughter lay dead.

I don't think it was all that calmly.

It doesn't make any sense that they did it and planned to take her out of the home at a later time. When they called 911 they expected the police would search the entire home as is always done. There was no way for either one of them to know her body would be overlooked. So respectfully, I just don't agree with that.

No, I agree with that.

There is no assurances whatsoever, imo, that any of the neighbors would have seen them in the middle of the night.

How would they know that? Their garage door made a racket you could hear all over the neighborhood.

Murderers who were total strangers have taken young children right out of their own homes and no one who lived around them was the wiser nor saw or heard a thing. The parents inside of the home didn't even hear anything yet the child was gone when they got up and later on found murdered.

Yes, and if you look at those murders, they weren't even remotely like this.

Even parents who have murdered their children have taken their children's bodies out of their home and then pretended they were missing.

But, as you say, JB was the world to them. They couldn't let her be gnawed on by every scavenger to come along.

In several unsolved cases no one saw the parents leaving either. So saying someone would have seen them or heard them just isn't a fact. Murderers are always high risk takers when they are trying to distance themselves from the murder/s they commit.

True, but even then, it's a question of which risk is the lesser

The ransom note if written by Patsy was to affirm JB had been kidnapped so if something happened where she couldn't be transported from her home all they had to do is tear up the ransom note. The ransom note written by the true killer of JB did as it was designed to do and that is to make the Ramseys look like fools and he achieved his goal. The killer knew she would be found eventually in her own home. It was the cruel joke he gleefully played on the Ramseys knowing how it all was going to end. He wanted them to have hope she was alive and then when they found out she wasn't it would be an even harder blow to take especially knowing she lay horrifically murdered in their very own home. He mocked them, twisting them inside and out with his cruel game he played with their emotions. He wanted them to know he could take their beautiful little daughter right from her own bed and do horrific things to her right under their nose as they all slept. The ransom note was written for the sole purpose to cast immediate suspicions on the Ramseys and it worked like a charm and has for 20 years for most who believe in their involvement. The ransom note made them all look like suspicious bumbling fools and that is exactly the revenge he sought and did. He took their brightest star, he invaded their safe space, he sadistically toyed with their emotions and he wrote the ransom note in such a way he knew they would look like fools which would direct the suspicion on them instead of him.

I've heard that argument a lot of times, OCB, and it always comes back to the same thing: if it was an intruder, it wouldn't have been staged to LOOK like an intruder.

 

[Madeleine74]

A 'belief' that a parent could never do something like this is not valid. As we know, some parents do kill their own children. Some by accident, some intentionally. I don't think JBR was hit on the head as an intentional/premeditated act, but hit she was and that injury was enough to kill her within 90 min to a few hours.

There has never been any evidence of an intruder. Cobwebs undisturbed on the outside of the very grate that was said must have been the entry point. No forced entry anywhere. Burke admits he was downstairs after everyone else was in bed. An 'intruder' did not hang out at the Ramsey's and practice writing a ransom note (yet LE found there was a practice note before the final one). And why would an intruder try to make their writing look like Patsy's? That makes no sense whatsoever. "A small foreign faction?" Really?

 

[UKGuy]

A 'belief' that a parent could never do something like this is not valid. As we know, some parents do kill their own children. Some by accident, some intentionally. I don't think JBR was hit on the head as an intentional/premeditated act, but hit she was and that injury was enough to kill her within 90 min to a few hours.

There has never been any evidence of an intruder. Cobwebs undisturbed on the outside of the very grate that was said must have been the entry point. No forced entry anywhere. Burke admits he was downstairs after everyone else was in bed. An 'intruder' did not hang out at the Ramsey's and practice writing a ransom note (yet LE found there was a practice note before the final one). And why would an intruder try to make their writing look like Patsy's? That makes no sense whatsoever. "A small foreign faction?" Really?

Madeleine74,
IDI is just nonsense. Also why would the intruder redress JonBenet in size-12's and leave the baseball bat outdoors, why not just leave it in the basement?

.

 

[THE BUNK]

While I know many didn't like Patsy's demeanor throughout I never saw a guilty mother who would ever harmed the daughter who meant everything to her. There is no evidence that either parent was ever abusive to any of their children. There is no way I can ever see Patsy Ramsey sitting there calmly thinking of what to write and rewrite while her daughter lay dead.

1. What is a murderer supposed to look like? Ted Bundy looked like the person you wanted your daughter to marry, John List looked like your college professor.

2. People kill people they love all the time. And often they kill out of love. Murder is not necessarily a crime done out of hate. Patsy may have killed her daughter to preserve her and save her from the dangers of adult hood. In her mind she may have been doing this murder to help her.

3. Yet you can think that a nervous killer can write the same note calmly. The "killer" has the same pressure if not more. Yet there are no sweat marks on the ransom note as there are no sweat marks as there are no tear marks. If a nervous killer could write the note carefully, I'm sure Patsy could as well.

4. There is evidence to suggest prior sexual assault. Especially when you consider the sealing of the children's medical records and the numerous physician visits.

It doesn't make any sense that they did it and planned to take her out of the home at a later time. When they called 911 they expected the police would search the entire home as is always done. There was no way for either one of them to know her body would be overlooked. So respectfully, I just don't agree with that. ---

Criminal plans get botched all the time. Especially when they are improvised. Plan A was to remove JB's body and have here be missing forever. But as in most crimes something happens that results in a Plan B or C. What occurred here was Plan C. Let the lawyers handle this and hope you can sell the "psycho killer" angle to the cops.

There is no assurances whatsoever, imo, that any of the neighbors would have seen them in the middle of the night. Murderers who were total strangers have taken young children right out of their own homes and no one who lived around them was the wiser nor saw or heard a thing. The parents inside of the home didn't even hear anything yet the child was gone when they got up and later on found murdered. Even parents who have murdered their children have taken their children's bodies out of their home and then pretended they were missing. In several unsolved cases no one saw the parents leaving either. So saying someone would have seen them or heard them just isn't a fact. Murderers are always high risk takers when they are trying to distance themselves from the murder/s they commit.

I believe the ultimate reason that the Ramsey's did not remove the body was because Patsy became sentimental. The line of "proper burial" in the ransom note gives it away. The killer did indeed leave JB for a proper burial....even though he said he wouldn't. Patsy wanted a casket funeral for JB. She couldn't do that with her body missing.

The ransom note written by the true killer of JB did as it was designed to do and that is to make the Ramseys look like fools and he achieved his goal.

Actually it makes him look like an idiot since he didn't get his $180,000. Something he could still try to do with JB dead. He didn't even have the guts to behead her. The ransom note does not make the killer look competent.

 

[InstantProof]

In regards to the ransom note in addition to the body, Patsy may have hoped John would go to the bank and contact police away from the home. Patsy could move JB to the back door and say she found her there as if the kidnappers returned her. The only question would be, why she doesn't protest when John tells her to call 911.

 

[THE BUNK]

In regards to the ransom note in addition to the body, Patsy may have hoped John would go to the bank and contact police away from the home. Patsy could move JB to the back door and say she found her there as if the kidnappers returned her. The only question would be, why she doesn't protest when John tells her to call 911.

Yes. The ransom delivery was supposed to be the opportunity to remove the body. In fact the original plan may have been to not call the police and have John to carry her body in the attache case under the pretense of going to get the money. John could then call from a pay phone and that pay phone call would be the ransom call mentioned in the ransom note. The delivery instructions could be imagined to be to leave the money in a secure location and then Jon would go to another location to bury JB in a secure location. It would then be that the Ramsey's screwed up, the killer took their money and they welshed and never returned her. The Ramseys could then tell the police that they were afraid to call them and took matters into their own hand. That would gain them sympathy and create a plausible scenario. It even gives them time to clean the crime scene.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I have only watched Part 1 so far as I have to watch on line somewhere.

It bugs me to no end that when JR found Jonbenet ' s body he had an overwhelming sense of joy. Synonyms of the word joy are: happiness, delight, pleasure, enjoyment, bliss, ectasy, elation.

Really JR that is what you felt? Very telling, MOO.

Was that a slip?

Also think about this, I have never been IDI, but can someone help me understand the thinking an intruder would choose Christmas. Many families have extra people overnight ... out of towners, those who drink too much etc. Also many families stay up late, celebrating, partying, playing with presents, visiting with family you might rarely see. Riskier night to commit murder if you ask me.

Burke appears programmed to the max. Going through a script whether spoon fed by parents all these years or just avoiding what he knows actually happened. I 100 percent believe he knows what happened!

Also it is odd the family doesn't talk about any good times, memories or experiences with JonBenet. Like ... oh remember the time she did this or that, or remember when she made us laugh, ... no endearment stories whatsoever. Very strange and suspicious to me.

They did it.