Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[dogperson]

I think people who know Burke would be talking if they didn't also know they would probably be sued. If the murder of JBR had happened in a less affluent neighborhood I bet all the Ramsey's acquaintances would love to tell everything they know about the family. But when you are dealing with wealthy people and a lawyer like Lin Wood, it probably seems best to stay quiet.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I think people who know Burke would be talking if they didn't also know they would probably be sued. If the murder of JBR had happened in a less affluent neighborhood I bet all the Ramsey's acquaintances would love to tell everything they know about the family. But when you are dealing with wealthy people and a lawyer like Lin Wood, it probably seems best to stay quiet.

So agree!

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[debbiegarcia36]

I wonder how much truth there is to this?

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?10244-1998-NE-Articles-on-Burke


Poster is KoldKase


National Enquirer -


Burke Today: A trouble schoolkid living with his anger


Band practice at the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta came to a sudden halt recently when an 11-year-old trombone player threw a fit

The youngster was Burke Ramsey.


Sadly the murder of his sister, JonBenét seems to have turned him into an angry and sometimes strange boy.


"Burke tossed his instrument to the floor with a thud and screamed that he hated the trombone and didn't want to play it anymore," said a source.


"All the kids in the band got real quiet and some of them were frightened.


"Burke kept screaming an practice was canceled while teachers quieted him down. Burke is now playing saxophone."


On another occasion, Burke was on an amusement park outing when he got freaked out by a girl who looked like JonBenét, said the source.


"He went white and turned away from her. He kept yelling he didn't want to go on a ride with HER!"


One of Burke's homeroom classmates told the source: "He talks to himself in the corner a lot. Everybody thinks he's talking to his sister."


Don Gentile

Wow! Good find. Sounds believable to me.

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[kanzz]

I have to say that the Dr. Phil interview made me very sad. I worked for Patsy. I knew her well. She quit working when she had Burke. I went to Jon Benet's funeral. I last talked to her in 1995 after they moved to Boulder. There is no way she did this. She did not have a temper. She felt grateful to be alive after being diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She loved her children. Burke and Jon Benet both looked like her. It was so sad seeing the pictures and interviews with her. They had everything and lost everything. I can't believe what it must have been like being Burke growing up. Just sad all around.

We never really "know" people until we live with them. And even then, sometimes it takes a long time.
Nearly everyone who learns of someone they know who has killed says, "There is no way X did this."... until X is proven guilty. Take, for example, BTK.
Having said that, I don't think PR killed JBR. I believe BR did it and then PR did the staging, undoing, and wrote the RN. PR did say that she "would have nothing left to live for" if she lost BR. A spontaneous utterance. She might have thought he would have been taken away from her. She probably didn't know he was too young to be prosecuted.
There was no intruder in that house that night. Everything the R's did points to someone in the family. And yes, it is truly sad.

 

[BoldBear]

People don't want to get involved. And there are tons of murderers who only have one victim - once that person is eliminated, no one else draws their ire quite in the same way. There are a lot of socially withdrawn people in Burke's generation and below him. They use the internet for their social contact and keep to themselves. They are not seen as creepy.

But you do understand that this is in direct opposition to what is being said here. On one hand, he wasn't creepy enough to get attention. On the other, people are saying how creepy he was. There's a disconnect. There's also a gang mentality. He appeared creepy on TV so he must have done it.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely see the possibility; although, the evidence doesn't support the event as the CBS special describes. The timeline doesn't work. It cringe every time everyone assumes that there could have not been a 2nd bowl of pineapple. We only see the evidence that was left to find.

My opinion about Dr Phil has completely changed. Knowing how bad the interview went off, I can't see how Dr Phil didn't realize how bad it looked. I admittedly don't know much about Dr Phil, but this was a tabloid on TV. It was done for ratings. It's nothing more than Morton Downey Jr. or Jerry Springer with a pretence that it has a sympathetic heart. I had the misunderstanding that this was self-help TV. Boy was I wrong. Dr Phil is scum who pretends to help people but only cares about ratings.

Burke's an adult. He signed-up to do the interview. It made him look really bad. Now he's paying the price for it.

I am having trouble stomaching the direct attacks. I'd rather focus on the evidence and argue the details. I still have an alternate theory. I thought Burke and Dr Phil might blow it out of the water. They didn't. I kind of wish they did. I'm really going to go out on a limb when I finally get it done and share it.

 

[BoldBear]

Okay, just saw the tabloid post. I had read that a long time ago. It is the Enquirer though.

 

[BoldBear]

Wasn't BR only 3 when JBR was born? Most first born get a lot of attention until the next child is born. Think about families with 5 children one right after the other. My point is that although BR might have been jealous I believe it was part of his psychopathy to kill his sister and her death was not attributed to Patsy giving her more attention or involving her in pageants. MOO

He was 3. His mother wasn't a great housekeeper so they hired help. Then the mother got cancer. They got a nanny because the mother was sick. She would come back to Boulder and spend a week in a hospital bed. When the mother was home, the kids would play in her room with face masks because of the weakened condition of their mother. Then then nanny was fired supposedly for hitting Burke (the reason for her dismissal isn't one I believe). The father was fairly absent working.

He was 9 when his sister was murdered. Was there any question that before his sister's murder, his life hadn't gone through some really messed-up stuff. There's no reason to create a rivalry issues. Oh, and Burke was in that "eew girls" age when she was murdered. He had also smeared feces all over a wall when he was younger.

Look, there were some really complicated dynamics going-on in this house. The father's constantly striving for all the gold stars: fast car, pageant wife, pilot, business executive, yachtsman. Patsy's always looking for bigger, better, best. She has some serious issues to prove to the world that she's made it--can't understand why the Boulderites don't worship her success. She surrounds herself with people who believe what she believes. And her family promotes the tierra winning moment, but tells her she needs to hide when the makeup comes off. There's nothing about this family's dynamic that was simple. Burke could have been screwed-up for reasons other than jealousy.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

Someone should try to get an interview with his former girlfriend. She might be reluctant to speak though fearing a lawsuit or other retribution.

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Maybe she signed a NDA

 

[wannagonorth]

But you do understand that this is in direct opposition to what is being said here. On one hand, he wasn't creepy enough to get attention. On the other, people are saying how creepy he was. There's a disconnect. There's also a gang mentality. He appeared creepy on TV so he must have done it.

I don't really see a disconnect. We're searching among a myriad of unlikely or impossible alternatives for the one that seems the least unlikely, or at least the most possible. I personally suspected Burke before I saw any videos of him, either child or adult. But Patsy and John both seems like such unlikely suspects, even though I was convinced they did the cover-up. When Burke's video appeared, and his childhood interviews were tacked on, I saw someone who not only would have had motive but whose behavior and expressions seemed so creepy, so disconnected from a normal set of feelings for someone whose sibling had been murdered, that I had to think "Wow, he's a good possibility!"

We're looking at a situation where none of this should have happened and little of it makes any sense. If it all made sense, JonBenet would be a beautiful 26-year old today, a college graduate, perhaps a young wife and mother. Something very unlikely to happen did actually happen in that house though. So what's the least unlikely scenario? Who's the least unlikely suspect? I don't think it takes a gang mentality to draw the conclusion that it's Burke.

 

[otg]

AHHHH watching the Dr. Phil show is so FRUSTRATING. He says that the GJ only heard "the police's side of the story". We all know that's not true!!! Lou Smit showed his presentation (where he stole evidence from the BPD without permission). And Candice DeLong makes me wanna slap her.

A GJ is typically a one-sided, non-adversarial, prosecution-only, ham-sandwich-indicting procedure. That wasn’t the case for the Ramsey GJ.

In late 1998, Smit had resigned from his position working for the DAs office. When informed that he wouldn’t be called to testify before the RGJ, he responded by writing a letter pleading to present his PowerPoint on the intruder theory to the RGJ. Hunter denied his request and went even further by seeking a court order to bar his testimony -- even if the GJ requested it, and further demanded that Smit turn over any evidence he had absconded and destroy any copies he may have made (This is where the claim comes from some that Hunter tried to get Smit to destroy evidence.).

For whatever reasons we might speculate, the judge allowed Smit to keep the evidence he had and ordered that he be allowed to testify to the RGJ and present his intruder theory. His testimony (like all other proceedings of the GJ) remains under seal. But according to one source, he wasn’t simply allowed to present his testimony without questioning by Kane. So when he was excused, Smit petitioned the court for a second opportunity to testify (essentially revealing that Kane had vigorously cross-examined him during his testimony).

So the RGJ was not presented with the typical GJ structure of simply going along with the DA’s theory of the case. The RGJ was presented with a thorough presentation on the intruder theory.

 

[PositiveLight]

A GJ is typically a one-sided, non-adversarial, prosecution-only, ham-sandwich-indicting procedure. That wasn’t the case for the Ramsey GJ.

In late 1998, Smit had resigned from his position working for the DAs office. When informed that he wouldn’t be called to testify before the RGJ, he responded by writing a letter pleading to present his PowerPoint on the intruder theory to the RGJ. Hunter denied his request and went even further by seeking a court order to bar his testimony -- even if the GJ requested it, and further demanded that Smit turn over any evidence he had absconded and destroy any copies he may have made (This is where the claim comes from some that Hunter tried to get Smit to destroy evidence.).

For whatever reasons we might speculate, the judge allowed Smit to keep the evidence he had and ordered that he be allowed to testify to the RGJ and present his intruder theory. His testimony (like all other proceedings of the GJ) remains under seal. But according to one source, he wasn’t simply allowed to present his testimony without questioning by Kane. So when he was excused, Smit petitioned the court for a second opportunity to testify (essentially revealing that Kane had vigorously cross-examined him during his testimony).

So the RGJ was not presented with the typical GJ structure of simply going along with the DA’s theory of the case. The RGJ was presented with a thorough presentation on the intruder theory.

Thank you for this post! See even the grand jury wasn't buying the intruder theory. That speaks volumes. They listened to what..13 months of evidence and witness testimony? And still chose to formally request charges against them? We haven't been privy to what the GJ heard but I would hope they made the right decision after hearing the evidence. I personally think they did.

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[Annapurna]

A GJ is typically a one-sided, non-adversarial, prosecution-only, ham-sandwich-indicting procedure. That wasn’t the case for the Ramsey GJ.

In late 1998, Smit had resigned from his position working for the DAs office. When informed that he wouldn’t be called to testify before the RGJ, he responded by writing a letter pleading to present his PowerPoint on the intruder theory to the RGJ. Hunter denied his request and went even further by seeking a court order to bar his testimony -- even if the GJ requested it, and further demanded that Smit turn over any evidence he had absconded and destroy any copies he may have made (This is where the claim comes from some that Hunter tried to get Smit to destroy evidence.).

For whatever reasons we might speculate, the judge allowed Smit to keep the evidence he had and ordered that he be allowed to testify to the RGJ and present his intruder theory. His testimony (like all other proceedings of the GJ) remains under seal. But according to one source, he wasn’t simply allowed to present his testimony without questioning by Kane. So when he was excused, Smit petitioned the court for a second opportunity to testify (essentially revealing that Kane had vigorously cross-examined him during his testimony).

So the RGJ was not presented with the typical GJ structure of simply going along with the DA’s theory of the case. The RGJ was presented with a thorough presentation on the intruder theory.

So what you're saying is the GJ got a more balanced presentation than usual, interesting. That makes it even more aggravating that Dr. Phil presented the information that way. It seems like every R supporter is a conspiracy theorist, they imagine that everyone was against the R's every step of the way. However if that was even remotely true then they would have seen jail time....or at least a frickin' court room...

I have honestly learned so much about the law and law enforcement here (and everything else, especially from you otg!). Thank you to all the wonderful posters here who spend time educating themselves and everyone here! :loveyou:

 

[zencompass]

I have honestly learned so much about the law and law enforcement here (and everything else, especially from you otg!). Thank you to all the wonderful posters here who spend time educating themselves and everyone here! :loveyou:

Beautifully said, Annapurna ! All I can add is that I learn from your insightful and compassionate posts as well!

It is a pleasure to be part of this thread - so many wonderful and respectful (and very intelligent!) posters here. I appreciate all of the posters here as well !
You are all marvelous!

 

[kanzz]

A GJ is typically a one-sided, non-adversarial, prosecution-only, ham-sandwich-indicting procedure. That wasn’t the case for the Ramsey GJ.

In late 1998, Smit had resigned from his position working for the DAs office. When informed that he wouldn’t be called to testify before the RGJ, he responded by writing a letter pleading to present his PowerPoint on the intruder theory to the RGJ. Hunter denied his request and went even further by seeking a court order to bar his testimony -- even if the GJ requested it, and further demanded that Smit turn over any evidence he had absconded and destroy any copies he may have made (This is where the claim comes from some that Hunter tried to get Smit to destroy evidence.).

For whatever reasons we might speculate, the judge allowed Smit to keep the evidence he had and ordered that he be allowed to testify to the RGJ and present his intruder theory. His testimony (like all other proceedings of the GJ) remains under seal. But according to one source, he wasn’t simply allowed to present his testimony without questioning by Kane. So when he was excused, Smit petitioned the court for a second opportunity to testify (essentially revealing that Kane had vigorously cross-examined him during his testimony).

So the RGJ was not presented with the typical GJ structure of simply going along with the DA’s theory of the case. The RGJ was presented with a thorough presentation on the intruder theory.

You're so right. Smit did everything he could from after his first few days on the case to make sure the R's were never held responsible for anything in this case. He would have stood in front of a fast-moving train if he had to. The R's weren't just afforded every decent opportunity, and provided with insulation; they were (disturbingly) fed defense tactics by the prosecution whose duty it was to stand by JBR and the people of the State of Colorado.

It's one thing that this case has never been brought to fruition. It's another thing altogether that the primary reason is because that is due, in no small part, because of what the DA's office did &/or failed to do.

 

[Heymom]

You're so right. Smit did everything he could from after his first few days on the case to make sure the R's were never held responsible for anything in this case. He would have stood in front of a fast-moving train if he had to. The R's weren't just afforded every decent opportunity, and provided with insulation; they were (disturbingly) fed defense tactics by the prosecution whose duty it was to stand by JBR and the people of the State of Colorado.

It's one thing that this case has never been brought to fruition. It's another thing altogether that the primary reason is because that is due, in no small part, because of what the DA's office did &/or failed to do.

It's why we're all still here, praying and desperately hoping for justice for JonBenet, even 20 years after she was killed. She deserved better.

 

[PositiveLight]

Ok starting to transcribe Dr. Phil interviews.
Episode one
(1)
Dr. Phil Episode 1
Opening sequence and teasers-
Narration- "On Dr. Phil today- It's one of the biggest unsolved murders of the century."
News snippet "Six year old JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in her home."
News snippet- "She'd been bound, strangled and sexually abused."
News Snippet- "Immediately suspicion fell on the family. That the parents and son Burke always proclaimed their
innocence"
Dr. Phil teases - "The night your sister JonBenet was killed there were only three people in that house that we
know the identity of. You're the one that has never spoken."
Narration- "JonBenet's brother, Burke Ramsey finally breaks his silence."
Dr. Phil- "This Christmas is the 20 year anniversary."
News snippet- "The killer has never been found."
Dr. Phil- "Some people have have speculated that you have been hiding out for this last 20 years. What do you
say to that?"
Dr. Phil- "Do you remember the last time you saw JonBenet alive?"
News snippet- "JonBenet Ramsey's skull was fractured on the right side of her head."
Dr. Phil- "Did you hit your sister over the head with a baseball bat or a flashlight? Had you ever violently
attacked her before? Did you murder your sister JonBenet?"
Narration- "The exclusive interview 20 years in the making. Now from Boulder Colorado, it's the season
premiere of Dr. Phil."




Dr. Phil is standing on the sidewalk outside of the original Ramsey home where JonBenet was murdered.
DP- "For two decades, the unsolved murder of six year old JonBenet Ramsey has remained one of the most mysterious
cold cases in history. The child beauty queen's body was found the day after Christmas in 1996 here in the
basement of the family's 15 room mansion in Boulder, Colorado. Today the home is surrounded by an iron fence
and hidden by trees. It even has a new address. But nothing can erase the haunting image of the path decorated
with candy canes for Christmas, dusted with snow, surrounded by police tape."

 

[PositiveLight]

(2)
Dispatcher- "911 Emergency"
PR- "(unintelligible) Police"
Dispatcher- "What's going.."
PR- "755 15th street."


Interview snippet- John Ramsey- "To those of you who may want to ask, let me address you very directly. I
did not kill my daughter JonBenet."


911 call
PR - "We have a kidnapping. Hurry please."
Dispatcher- Explain to me what's going on, ok?"


Snippet from TV interview
PR- Let me assure you. That I did not kill JonBenet."


911 call
Dispatcher- Ok, what's your name? Are you Pat.."
PR- "Patsy Ramsey, I'm the mother.Oh My God! Please!"


Snippet from TV interview-
PR-" I did not have anything to do with it. I loved that child with my whole of my heart and soul."


Female Narrator- "It's the mysterious murder case of an American Sweetheart. Who's responsible for the death of
little JonBenet?"
Candice Delong- FBI profiler- "In the thirty years I've been doing this, I've never seen a case like the
unsolved murder of JonBenet Ramsey."


Lawrence Schiller, Journalist, Author "Perfect Town, Perfect Murder"- "If you look at the Ramsey case, this went
far beyond what you would expect. There were more mistakes made in this case than any other case I've ever
seen."


Lou Smit, Ramsey Homicide Investigator- "I believe that when the case first started, that it didn't look
like the Ramsey's did this."


Lin Wood, Ramsey Family Attorney- "Within a week it was clear the the Boulder Police Department had made up it's
mind. It was someone in the household. Game. Set. Match."


News snippet- "John Ramsey and his wife have been under this cloud of suspicion ever since then."


DP walking along the sidewalk in front of the Ramsey home, "When a child is murdered, the police have learned
to look first at family members. Bizarre circumstances and unexplained evidence caused police to immediately
focus their investigation on the Ramsey Family. In the 20 years since this innocent child was so tragically
murdered, every angle every shred of evidence has been evaluated and reevaluated... except one. There has
been one critically important missing link. JonBenet's older brother, Burke Ramsey. Burke Ramsey was the
only other person known to be in the house the night his sister was murdered and he has never spoken
publicly. He has never answered questions about what happened in this house the night his sister was murdered.
Until today."


Narrator- "Christmas day 1996, the Ramsey family had spent the evening at a holiday party. Patsy helped
tuck six year old JonBenet into bed and that may have been the last time they saw their daughter alive.
5:30am the next morning, Patsy woke up early because the family was planning to leave town on vacation.
She walked down the backstairs from her third floor bedroom in their 15 room tudor style home in Boulder,
Colorado."


Lawrence Schiller- "And she went down the spiral staircase and three quarters of the way through
the spiral staircase she saw papers on the floor and started to read them."


Narrator- "The ransom note. Patsy skimmed the words. 'We've kidnapped your daughter. Don't call
the police or we will kill her. Get $118,000.00."


John Ramsey- "Patsy was by the phone so I said CALL THE POLICE."


911 call
Dispatcher- "What's going on there ma'am?"
Patsy- "We have a kidnapping. Hurry please."

 

[PositiveLight]

(3)
Narrator- "About 20 minutes later police arrived followed by the FBI. For the next six hours the
Ramsey's waited for the kidnappers promised call. Two different searches of the house turned up nothing."


Lin Wood- "It was a Boulder Police Officer, Linda Arndt, who told John to go with his friend Fleet White
and search the house one more time."


Lawrence Schiller- "They get to the basement. They go down the hallway towards the wine cellar and
he hits the light switch and he immediately sees his daughter wrapped in the blanket laying on the
floor. He notices her hands are tied. There was a piece of duct tape across JonBenet's mouth. He sees
a garrote around the neck. This was not a kidnapping. This was a murder."


Steve Kardian, Former Police Detective- "You have a two and a half page ransom note. A strangulation.
Sexual abuse. It just doesn't happen this way."


News snippets-
"A strange story in Colorado where a six year old girl thought to be a kidnap victim,
Has been found dead. The child beauty queen was found in the basement of her family's home the
day after Christmas."
"It was also reported that the girl was strangled with a noose like cord and her mouth taped.
There were no signs of a break-in."
"JonBenet's skull was fractured on the right side of her head."
"She'd been battered, strangled and sexually abused."
"There's no sign of forced entry. No footprints in the snow. The rope used to choke JonBenet
was tightened with a paintbrush from her mother's hobby kit. An alleged ransom note was written
on a pad of paper from inside the house."
"The brutal killing of a pageant princess is raising troubling questions in many minds about
child beauty contests."


Lawrence Schiller- " I think the JonBenet Ramsey case would have stayed a local story if it
wasn't for one element... and that was those pageant videos that were released within a few days
after the tragedy. Those videos showed a certain amount of sexuality from the young child..."


PR- (while holding up one of JonBenet's dresses) "People try to make it seem ugly and something
that it wasn't and I just know how much fun it was. You. What a good time we had together doing it."

 

[PositiveLight]

(4)
Lawrence Schiller- "There were some negative conotations to this images you know. Whether the
child had been pushed too far and whether this was symptomatic of some end result that caused
the death of this child."


News snippet- "For two weeks now in Boulder, Colorado, an American tragedy has been unfolding.
Tonight no new clues in the search for answers."


Candice DeLong- "The setting for this murder was not typical. Very Affluent exclusive neighborhood.
Beautiful multi-million dollar home. All of these things led many people to believe well.. 'there
can't be a bad guy walking around a place like that. It must be the parents or her brother."


Trip DeMuth, Boulder County Prosecutor- "The evidence that points to the Ramsey's I think is the
fact that they were in the house at the time of the murder."


News snippet
"Immediately suspicion fell on the family. But the parents and their son Burke always proclaimed
their innocence."


Alex Hunter news snippet, "The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list
but you."


"John Benet's parents hired an attorney shortly after their child was murdered and have
communicated with police only through legal representitives."


Dr. Phil speaking to John Ramsey. Both sitting across from each other (not in front of an audience)
in chairs. John Ramsey is wearing a light blue button up shirt with top button open, Greyish
sports coat, Khaki dress pants, tan socks and brown leather shoes.


DP- It has been said that you and Patsy did not cooperate with the police. That you in fact
obstructed this investigation."
JR- "Well that's totally false. Police came to our home and we talked to them seemed like
hours andddd they started this 'well we need you to come down to the police station' and by
now we had the media trucks out in front and Patsy was in no condition to be moved. She
was in bad shape."

 

[PositiveLight]

(5)
News snippet- "As we've been reporting, police in Boulder, Colorado finally have begun full
length interrogations of the little girls parents."


Cuts to PR interrogation-
Tom Haney- I'm talking about scientific evidence"
PR- "I don't give a flying flip how scientific it is. Go back to the damn drawing board.
I didn't do it!"


News snippet- "They were still suspects in the eyes of the public and the police who
continued to focus almost exclusively on them. Particularly Patsy."


Lou Smit- "The theory was that JonBenet was killed by Patsy over bedwetting and the
garrote was constructed for some reason to make it look like it was a kidnap killing
gone bad. That was all part of the staging."


Candice DeLong- "The garrote had intricate complex even unusual knotting. Someone
knew what they were doing. "


News snippet- "There are several key people investigators would like to question.
Tops on the list, John and Patsy Ramsey as well as their son Burke."


Narrator- "Coming up ... the interview two decades in the making. JonBenet's
brother Burke breaks his silence.
Dr. Phil ' You answer all the questions. You said I could ask you anything. Nothing
is off limits. You speak about this one time..."


Commercial (3 minutes long)


Narrator- "We now return to a Dr. Phil exclusive."

Today Show News Snippet- "It's been nearly 20 years since JonBenet Ramsey was
found dead in her parents home. Her killer never brought to justice."
More news snippets-
"In the enduring mystery of JonBenet's murder, Burke Ramsey was the 9 year old
brother who by all accounts slept soundly in his room that Christmas of 1996
while his sister's skull was fractured and she was strangled nearby."


"Her parent's John and Patsy and 9 yr old brother Burke were investigated
but never charged."


Charlie Brennan, Boulder Daily Camera- "So the question becomes, who, and the
only other person in the house that night that we know of was Burke Ramsey."


"So does JonBenet's brother Burke have some memory locked away that could unlock the
case?"