Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

[ButForFortune]

There is so much hatred toward this nurse who has no symptoms.

And she did have a symptom - she had a 101 degree temperature.

 

[Inthedetails]

And she did have a symptom - she had a 101 degree temperature.

Does she still have that?

 

[nrdsb4]

Just watched the interview. IMO the nurse and her attorney are gearing up for a lawsuit and a big payout. "I am the one who is suffering", "my freedom", "my civil rights". And threatening such if the quarantine is lifted by today?? All with a smile on her face. Really?? What is so tough about staying in your home for the balance of the 21 days. I have no hatred for her, but I do question her true agenda here. (The tent was a bit of a mess, I will admit!)

I am very very fortunate to live in a beautiful home which has just about any modern convenience I could want. I have the means to have food and other necessities delivered. I'm such a homebody, it wouldn't bother me much to "have to" stay home for 3 weeks. However, I would NOT have been okay with being forced to stay in that tent with a porta potty and no bathing facilities for 3 weeks. I find it amazing that not only were people defending it, they were insisting it's no big deal to not be able to shower for 3 weeks or have functional plumbing.

The tent was completely unacceptable.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

What I don't understand is how the authorities think they'll be able to enforce a quarantine of any hc worker coming into NJ or NY from an Ebola stricken area. All the hc worker would have to do is fly into another state. Philly Intl Air isn't on that list that banned flights from stricken areas, they said its not much of a concern bc they don't have direct flights between those nations anyway. Well I personally think that raises eyebrows bc all a person would have to do is fly through Brussels - which is actually quite common. So something to think about is the distance between Philly & Newark...it's it that far lol. Any nonsymptomatic or even asymptomatic person could directly fly from Liberia or elsewhere to Brussels, then into Philly, and then cab it to NJ lol. So how would anyone be able to control that?

 

[winnnancy]

Do all scientists agree that you must have symptoms to be contagious?

No. Nobel prize winning Dr. Beutler is quoted in this publication as an article attached to the poll. (Poll: How do you rate Chris Christies performance in dealing with concerns over Ebola?)

www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Do all scientists agree that you must have symptoms to be contagious?

A person with Ebola can be asymptomatic but still transfer the disease through blood and other various bodily excretions, but its very uncommon.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am very very fortunate to live in a beautiful home which has just about any modern convenience I could want. I have the means to have food and other necessities delivered. I'm such a homebody, it wouldn't bother me much to "have to" stay home for 3 weeks. However, I would NOT have been okay with being forced to stay in that tent with a porta potty and no bathing facilities for 3 weeks. I find it amazing that not only were people defending it, they were insisting it's no big deal to not be able to shower for 3 weeks or have functional plumbing.

The tent was completely unacceptable.

And...it the decision to hold her was made out of fear. Decisions made out of fear aren't always wise. They MIGHT be the best thing to do, but maybe not. It's okay to un-do what is later determined as overkill.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I believe the key to a cure or control is education, then trial/error, then statistics, then re-educate. I believe truth related to this disease should always be told in full, not in half-truths to satisfy agenda wielding experts trying squash public hysteria, bc once somebody proves them wrong panic sets in. The experts in the field know how deadly serious Ebola is. I think the protocol should come from them.

 

[SteveS]

Do all scientists agree that you must have symptoms to be contagious?

No. Nobel prize winning Dr. Beutler is quoted in this publication as an article attached to the poll. (Poll: How do you rate Chris Christies performance in dealing with concerns over Ebola?)

www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf

Your response does not accurately reflect what the doctor said. Truth be told, he stopped short of actually making any such claim.

Yes, he questioned the WHO/CDC working belief that someone who is asymptomatic cannot transmit the disease. But in so doing, the manner in which he did so did NOT claim he had any evidence they were wrong, instead he was quoted saying "It may not be absolutely true that ____ ..." and "It could be __ ..." and "I'm not sure about ___ ..." and "I don't completely trust ___ ...". While the article was written as if he was poking holes in the claim that one who is asymptomatic cannot transmit the disease, he was actually more of an agnostic on the idea (it MIGHT be wrong) rather than at any point saying it has been proven false.

And that's a huge difference. "I wonder if it's really true" is not the same thing as saying that it's false. It's easy to look at the credentials, and ignore the fact that he doesn't actually claim to know and is instead merely expressing his unverified thoughts on the matter.

 

[SteveS]

A person with Ebola can be asymptomatic but still transfer the disease through blood and other various bodily excretions, but its very uncommon.

Can they? Have they? I don't know the answer, but I've yet to see anyone claim they have verifiable proof that the CDC/WHO has it wrong, when it comes to the transmission of the disease.

 

[lonetraveler]

My doctor and his wife are both doctors. They are extremely good people in my view. I had to go in to see him a few days ago because it was time to renew my prescriptions. He and his wife actually go overseas every summer on their vacation with other doctors. They have been doing this for almost 20 years.

I actually asked him if he and his wife went this year. He said no, they did not go the end of August because he felt that his first loyalty was to his patients here in the United States. They would not risk bringing any contagious disease back here. There were several doctors from a
tri-state area that did not go because of this. These doctors felt a greater responsibility to their patients here. I admire and respect the work they have all done in underprivileged countries, but even more respect their decisions concerning this year.

I think my doctor was rather candid with me because I have known he and his wife for 28 years and we go to the same church. He actually delivered my first grandchild 26 years ago.

I believe this nurse, Kaci, has done a great thing by volunteering her nursing capabilities in that country, but at least be proactive in protecting her family, friends, and the general public now that she is back here. By not agreeing to a 21 day quarantine now that she is back is a very selfish and careless thing in my opinion. I honestly do not understand what her thought process is. Maybe she is not carrying the disease and will not get it, but WHY take the chance? She DID have a temperature upon arrival back to the United States.

My own mother was a registered nurse since the age of 25. She feels the same way I do and doesn't mind saying it.

This is my opinion and throw tomatoes if you want to. I make a mean spaghetti sauce with fresh tomatoes!

MOO

There will be no tomatoes thrown by me. My daughter is an RN and is totally shocked and disgusted at this HCW's arrogance and self-centered attitude. With an attitude like she has shown I can only imagine how she treated the HCW's who were overseeing her described "imprisonment".................:gaah:

 

[winnnancy]

Your response does not accurately reflect what the doctor said. Truth be told, he stopped short of actually making any such claim.

Yes, he questioned the WHO/CDC working belief that someone who is asymptomatic cannot transmit the disease. But in so doing, the manner in which he did so did NOT claim he had any evidence they were wrong, instead he was quoted saying "It may not be absolutely true that ____ ..." and "It could be __ ..." and "I'm not sure about ___ ..." and "I don't completely trust ___ ...". While the article was written as if he was poking holes in the claim that one who is asymptomatic cannot transmit the disease, he was actually more of an agnostic on the idea (it MIGHT be wrong) rather than at any point saying it has been proven false.

And that's a huge difference. "I wonder if it's really true" is not the same thing as saying that it's false. It's easy to look at the credentials, and ignore the fact that he doesn't actually claim to know and is instead merely expressing his unverified thoughts on the matter.

He is an authority in the field and my interpretation is that he "can't say with certainty"... IMO, he is a responsible professional in that he is saying that it is an unknown.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Can they? Have they? I don't know the answer, but I've yet to see anyone claim they have verifiable proof that the CDC/WHO has it wrong, when it comes to the transmission of the disease.

As far as I know, it hasn't been proven that they've actually transmitted the disease while being asymptomatic...it's only been scientifically noted that there's a possibility. A possibility is not proof of transmission, only that it could happen.

 

[lonetraveler]

Can they? Have they? I don't know the answer, but I've yet to see anyone claim they have verifiable proof that the CDC/WHO has it wrong, when it comes to the transmission of the disease.

Well that's just it, no one really seems to know 100% how the disease can be transmitted. Some experts are saying that the virus can survive hours on a flat, dry surface and semen infected with the virus can survive for days. There have been so many contradictions between infectious disease experts it is like a multiple choice quiz. I really don't see how anyone can thump their chest and shout that their view is the "one" to believe.

 

[faw720]

Just watched the interview. IMO the nurse and her attorney are gearing up for a lawsuit and a big payout. "I am the one who is suffering", "my freedom", "my civil rights". And threatening such if the quarantine is lifted by today?? All with a smile on her face. Really?? What is so tough about staying in your home for the balance of the 21 days. I have no hatred for her, but I do question her true agenda here. (The tent was a bit of a mess, I will admit!)

I have no hatred for her either. I suspect that she is just a "control freak". I'm sure most of us have encountered people like that in our own lives. I know for certain that I have.

 

[oh_gal]

There is so much hatred toward this nurse who has no symptoms.

Hatred? Maybe....scorn or derision. Deserved, IMO.

 

[nrdsb4]

Well that's just it, no one really seems to know 100% how the disease can be transmitted. Some experts are saying that the virus can survive hours on a flat, dry surface and semen infected with the virus can survive for days. There have been so many contradictions between infectious disease experts it is like a multiple choice quiz. I really don't see how anyone can thump their chest and shout that their view is the "one" to believe.

Public health policies have to be based on something, however. A general consensus within the world medical community says that asymptomatic individuals, particularly those with no discernible virus in their blood as shown by a negative ebola test, are not a public health threat. By virtue of having a negative ebola test in her hand, that should have negated the need to forcibly quarantine her in a make shift isolation ward with no functional plumbing. The fact that you can find an "expert" here and there to question the general accepted medical consensus should not mean that public policy needs to cater to the objections of these individuals. There are board certified doctors who reject the notion of brain death. Does that mean we should suddenly cease all organ donations in order to satisfy the objections of these credentialed medical practitioners?

Note that I am not making an argument either for or against home isolation during a 21 day incubation period, simply that there was no need to keep this woman in that ridiculous tent with a normal temperature upon follow up, and most certainly not after her negative ebola test.

 

[oh_gal]

She doesn't have a problem with self monitoring. She has a problem with forced quarantine, which is a whole different thing.

I would not have handled this in the way she has. I think WichitaFalls had a much better idea.

But (I thought, anyway) she said in the Matt Lauer interview that she was no longer going to self-monitor. I'll have to go back and listen.


ETA: My mistake...they were talking about isolation measures and self monitoring....she is no longer going to self-isolate herself, but apparently will continue to self-monitor for symptoms.

 

[lonetraveler]

Public health policies have to be based on something, however. A general consensus within the world medical community says that asymptomatic individuals, particularly those with no discernible virus in their blood as shown by a negative ebola test, are not a public health threat. By virtue of having a negative ebola test in her hand, that should have negated the need to forcibly quarantine her in a make shift isolation ward with no functional plumbing. The fact that you can find an "expert" here and there to question the general accepted medical consensus should not mean that public policy needs to cater to the objections of these individuals. There are board certified doctors who reject the notion of brain death. Does that mean we should suddenly cease all organ donations in order to satisfy the objections of these credentialed medical practitioners?

Note that I am not making an argument either for or against home isolation during a 21 day incubation period, simply that there was no need to keep this woman in that ridiculous tent with a normal temperature upon follow up, and most certainly not after her negative ebola test.

I don't think that the tent isolation was the answer either but she is also stating that she does not intend to follow the 21 day quarantine in her own home. I hope to God that this woman does not develop Ebola because her attitude could cost her her life. Her stubborn determination to show that she is "right" might cause her to hesitate to admit she was "wrong" if she develops symptoms. JMO

 

[SteveS]

He is an authority in the field and my interpretation is that he "can't say with certainty"... IMO, he is a responsible professional in that he is saying that it is an unknown.

He is saying he doesn't know. No question about that. But from what he actually said, it doesn't look to me like he's even studied the disease at all, and is only working from a theoretical basis of questioning, without knowing. It would only take a single case of transmission, from an asymptomatic person, to contradict the CDC/WHO, and he does NOT claim that's ever happened.

What really happens, that is what matters.

So we may be talking about the difference between theory and reality here. In theory, he doesn't know if they can be certain. But in reality, they know it always happens the same way - symptoms first, then transmission.