Elisa Lam possible victim of Serial murderer?

[2Hip2BSquare]

Since the unfortunate discovery of Elisa's body in February, I noticed that there have been two other cases involving females around the same age as Elisa and water.

First Tina was found in the first week of March in Newport Beach ( equidustance between San Diego and LA)
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Now an unidentified victim in the first week of April in Goleta
http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_22970312/body-found-water-near-popular-calif-surf-spot

All victims are college aged females. All have pending investigations and police stating they can't determine foul play or not. All at the beginning of the month (elisa was thiught to have been kidnapped and assaulted Jan 31-Feb.1) All involving water.

What do you guys think? Could the suspect/s who murdered Elisa be on a murder spree up and down the coast of southern CA?

Opinions and theories greatly appreciated!

 

[findinganatta]

It's certainly possible, although the M.O. in EL's case is quite different (not that some serial killers don't change up their M.O.'s sometimes). Regardless, it's still pretty obvious that if EL was murdered, the killer was very familiar with the Cecil. I would hope that if there are any good suspects living at the Cecil, the cops would already be watching them pretty closely.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I almost feel as if Elisa was on the roof and encountered the suspect and began to feel "off", so she took the access stairs to exit the roof and then became frightened of the isolation of the stairwell do she exited to the hallway to attempt to reach her room/lobby via elevator. The elevator during this time was known and act up and was out of order many times in the past. I think the suspect caught up with her in the hallway via the stairwell and was searching the hallway - only to suspect she was in elevator and KNOWING there was a surveillance camera, they would not walk past or enter the elevator so as to not be seen on CCTV.

I believe you are right that the suspect knew the building, down to where the security camera was in the elevator. Unfortunately the Cecil intentionally has little video surveillance bc it helps cater to the seedier clientele who frequent it for prostitution.

Tina was an escort. Maybe there's a connection between the sex trafficking hotel and the fact that the victim Tina was involved in sex trafficking.

 

[Conductor71]

Since the unfortunate discovery of Elisa's body in February, I noticed that there have been two other cases involving females around the same age as Elisa and water.

First Tina was found in the first week of March in Newport Beach ( equidustance between San Diego and LA)
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Interestingly, lit memorial type candles were found very near the body by the police; that's creepy. They were taken in as evidence.

All victims are college aged females. All have pending investigations and police stating they can't determine foul play or not. All at the beginning of the month (elisa was thiught to have been kidnapped and assaulted Jan 31-Feb.1) All involving water.

What do you guys think? Could the suspect/s who murdered Elisa be on a murder spree up and down the coast of southern CA?

Opinions and theories greatly appreciated!

This has been my hunch. I just ran across a news report on the CBC dated February 7th relating to the LAPD' press report announcing her as missing. I am quoting the US liaison reporter "The police have evidence that she may have been harmed or be in danger." I didn't make too much of it because that could have been a referral to her mental health. I suspect because they really didn't get going on this until almost a week after her disappearance, the final call will be accidental death.

I still cannot see it as a freak accident; everything just perfectly falls into place. I think the whole thing from the video; to a "clean" site on the roof with dogs not being able to detect her at all up there; it all seems too staged. I have even wondered if EL's video was intentional as a way to further push death by accident bit. There is a strong case for mental health, but it stops at the video. I just don't see how she would have gotten into that tank on her own. The video even seems contrived, to me. She had a psychotic break, and it just happened to be caught on video just before she died? That is remarkably convenient, as it really is the only "clue" in this case. I think this is why out of 100 of hour of tape the police chose the bizarre one. They were perhaps hoping witnesses might recall her acting oddly or entirely normal that evening because there was not enough evidence to determine either.

As for serial murders...there is a parallel. Many young men are vanishing from colleges; usually the kid is high or inebriated or otherwise drugged, and they leave a group to walk home, sober up, etc. They then disappear with no trace. Clothes, cell, everything. When they are found, there is no trauma to the body and the coroners end up settling on accident as manner of death. There are former LE investigators who connected the dots and found there are around 40 "accidental" drownings they believe is the work of the Smiley Face killer (s). The kids involved usually appear to have been on Ecstasy or given GHB, and some are on surveillance video as last time seen alive. Not exactly same thing as EL's case but some interesting parallels.


Here is link to info on the water related vanishings

 

[Nickfalzone]

Interesting comment I cut and pasted from a youtube thread on the elevator video. I removed the name to comply with board standards.

"I believe that it has alot to do with staff who were befriended by that guy [name redacted], he stayed enough at the hotel to be friends with staff and he really has a 'morbid' way of thinking about Oriental people and loves and is infatuated about young Oriental girls.. He has been known to party up on top of hotel roof top.. He could have lured this young women up there.. I know these are assumptions but he was staying at the hotel at the same time Elisa was staying there.."

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Interestingly, lit memorial type candles were found very near the body by the police; that's creepy. They were taken in as evidence.



This has been my hunch. I just ran across a news report on the CBC dated February 7th relating to the LAPD' press report announcing her as missing. I am quoting the US liaison reporter "The police have evidence that she may have been harmed or be in danger." I didn't make too much of it because that could have been a referral to her mental health. I suspect because they really didn't get going on this until almost a week after her disappearance, the final call will be accidental death.

I still cannot see it as a freak accident; everything just perfectly falls into place. I think the whole thing from the video; to a "clean" site on the roof with dogs not being able to detect her at all up there; it all seems too staged. I have even wondered if EL's video was intentional as a way to further push death by accident bit. There is a strong case for mental health, but it stops at the video. I just don't see how she would have gotten into that tank on her own. The video even seems contrived, to me. She had a psychotic break, and it just happened to be caught on video just before she died? That is remarkably convenient, as it really is the only "clue" in this case. I think this is why out of 100 of hour of tape the police chose the bizarre one. They were perhaps hoping witnesses might recall her acting oddly or entirely normal that evening because there was not enough evidence to determine either.

As for serial murders...there is a parallel. Many young men are vanishing from colleges; usually the kid is high or inebriated or otherwise drugged, and they leave a group to walk home, sober up, etc. They then disappear with no trace. Clothes, cell, everything. When they are found, there is no trauma to the body and the coroners end up settling on accident as manner of death. There are former LE investigators who connected the dots and found there are around 40 "accidental" drownings they believe is the work of the Smiley Face killer (s). The kids involved usually appear to have been on Ecstasy or given GHB, and some are on surveillance video as last time seen alive. Not exactly same thing as EL's case but some interesting parallels.


Here is link to info on the water related vanishings

The smiley face killer is the perfect example of what I believe is going on here as well! Thank you for that reference! I believe Elisa could have been drugged and then drowned. Also, I lived at the beach where Tina was found and can say there are plenty of bars on the newport peninsula there where men will meet with escorts. Entirely possible Tina was drugged with GHB and drowned in the ocean. Possible Elisa was on the roof to take a skyline photo (her favorite to do while traveling) and was with someone to share the view and maybe a beer or two??? A beer laced with a drug that she began to feel and left the rooftop to make it to the hallway and hopefully reach the lobby faster and easier in her drugged state via elevator? he found her, forced her back up to the roof where she passed out and was assaulted in the maintenance room and was dropped into the water tank... For some reason the tank and it's location made it difficult for cadaver SAR dogs to pick up the scent cone (water and wind affect a positive scent read from dogs).

Thank u for the smiley face killer reference again. I think something eerily similar is going on here.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Interesting comment I cut and pasted from a youtube comments thread on the elevator video. I removed the name to comply with board standards.

"I believe that it has alot to do with staff who were befriended by that guy [name redacted], he stayed enough at the hotel to be friends with staff and he really has a 'morbid' way of thinking about Oriental people and loves and is infatuated about young Oriental girls.. He has been known to party up on top of hotel roof top.. He could have lured this young women up there.. I know these are assumptions but he was staying at the hotel at the same time Elisa was staying there.."

Thank you for the Morbid reference. I have done extensive research on him and actually believe him to be innocent and actually framed as he was supporting a female friend in a case against a group of men who drugged her and kidnapped her. My theory had been that maybe these men framed morbid with Elisa's death bc Morbid has said in publication he lives in attics and top floors of hostels. If they could ruin Morbid's credibility, it would make this rape gangs claims of innocence seem more valid. This is the only real theory I have as to morbid.

Although I don't think this is the case with Elisa. I think it probably has no connection with Morbid or his aid as a witness in his friends drug and rape case. I think it is all pure coincidence.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Interesting comment I cut and pasted from a youtube thread on the elevator video. I removed the name to comply with board standards.

"I believe that it has alot to do with staff who were befriended by that guy [name redacted], he stayed enough at the hotel to be friends with staff and he really has a 'morbid' way of thinking about Oriental people and loves and is infatuated about young Oriental girls.. He has been known to party up on top of hotel roof top.. He could have lured this young women up there.. I know these are assumptions but he was staying at the hotel at the same time Elisa was staying there.."

Heres info and my theory as to why morbid might have been framed if he does have any connection to Elisa...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9078840&postcount=213"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion[/ame]

 

[Conductor71]

... For some reason the tank and it's location made it difficult for cadaver SAR dogs to pick up the scent cone (water and wind affect a positive scent read from dogs).

Thank u for the smiley face killer reference again. I think something eerily similar is going on here.

RSBM

I have been thinking along the lines of a similar scenario suspecting it was someone who knew her itinerary and her vulnerability. Everything was there on Tumblr to see. Though most disagree with me here, I also think Interpol was involved in this right at the start because something about EL's disappearance set off the RCMP's radar. Interpol houses info on sexual predators, serial murders, and cyber crime 24/7 from around the globe. I could be reading too much into it.

Another interesting commonality is that in some cases of the young men; dogs cannot pick up a trail and one started in the water going the opposite direction across a road. Weird!

Someone added this comment on the Smiley Face site which really makes a lot of sense to me:

If dogs don’t track the victims scent to the water and if no one watched the victim walk to the water or fall in the water, how can a medical examiner or detective determine the young man is the victim of an accidental drowning?

 

[findinganatta]

If she was indeed drugged for whatever purposes and then put in the tank, they will presumably find the drug in her system, given that those drugs show up on tests. If they do find something like GHB or rohypnol, I would think they would result in both the police and the public immediately suspecting foul play because those drugs aren't very popular recreationally. Ecstasy generally isn't associated with making people unconscious, although it certainly can disorient people, like any drug can... and the physical signs of drowning struggle would still be present, I believe (and there are a surprising amount of physical indications of drowning struggle based on the FBI website, including clues within her body that would hold up to weeks of decomposition).

Based on previous cases, I think any kind of sexual assault would be evident to some degree, particularly if she was conscious and wasn't on a 'date rape' drug. But this would obviously be contingent on variables regarding how the crime was carried out and the damage it might have caused.

As for the video being set up or acted out, besides that theory just being generally hard to believe for various reasons (just my opinion ), I really think they would have had her acting significantly crazier. Her behavior in that video, while it appears to clearly contain psychosis to my eyes, is apparently so ambiguous to other people that there are massive disagreements all over the internet about whether she's acting sane or crazy. So if it was a setup, they did a pretty terrible job. They even included behavior than many (probably most) people have interpreted to be fear of a stalker/killer, which would be the opposite of what they would want to do if they were trying to focus attention on her behavior, mental state, and likelihood of her having been responsible for her own death.

And given the complexities and premeditation involved in faking any of this stuff, it just seems to be that a perp or perps would find it far, far more appealing to just go find a girl someone, commit their crime, and leave the body elsewhere, just like those other news stories.

All of this is just my opinion, of course.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

If she was indeed drugged for whatever purposes and then put in the tank, they will presumably find the drug in her system, given that those drugs show up on tests. If they do find something like GHB or rohypnol, I would think they would result in both the police and the public immediately suspecting foul play because those drugs aren't very popular recreationally. Ecstasy generally isn't associated with making people unconscious, although it certainly can disorient people, like any drug can... and the physical signs of drowning struggle would still be present, I believe (and there are a surprising amount of physical indications of drowning struggle based on the FBI website, including clues within her body that would hold up to weeks of decomposition).

Based on previous cases, I think any kind of sexual assault would be evident to some degree, particularly if she was conscious and wasn't on a 'date rape' drug. But this would obviously be contingent on variables regarding how the crime was carried out and the damage it might have caused.

As for the video being set up or acted out, besides that theory just being generally hard to believe for various reasons (just my opinion ), I really think they would have had her acting significantly crazier. Her behavior in that video, while it appears to clearly contain psychosis to my eyes, is apparently so ambiguous to other people that there are massive disagreements all over the internet about whether she's acting sane or crazy. So if it was a setup, they did a pretty terrible job. They even included behavior than many (probably most) people have interpreted to be fear of a stalker/killer, which would be the opposite of what they would want to do if they were trying to focus attention on her behavior, mental state, and likelihood of her having been responsible for her own death.

And given the complexities and premeditation involved in faking any of this stuff, it just seems to be that a perp or perps would find it far, far more appealing to just go find a girl someone, commit their crime, and leave the body elsewhere, just like those other news stories.

All of this is just my opinion, of course.

Thanks for your reply! The daunting thing is, when a body is exposed to water (especially water that is refiltering with chlorine) this could completely eraddicate any remains of drugs or DNA in or on her body.

I do agree on your theory that it is not a set up. She was all over the news here when she went missing, but unfortunately the reports of her missing were overshadowed by Chris Dorner as well as the OC shootings. The LAPD seemed more concerned about their safety and reputation than civilians at this point in time. I think the LAPD just didn't want any bad media and did not want to make it do obvious that they did not get a scent with the dogs (which happens often, but again lapd didn't need any scrutiny at this time).

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

RSBM

I have been thinking along the lines of a similar scenario suspecting it was someone who knew her itinerary and her vulnerability. Everything was there on Tumblr to see. Though most disagree with me here, I also think Interpol was involved in this right at the start because something about EL's disappearance set off the RCMP's radar. Interpol houses info on sexual predators, serial murders, and cyber crime 24/7 from around the globe. I could be reading too much into it.

Another interesting commonality is that in some cases of the young men; dogs cannot pick up a trail and one started in the water going the opposite direction across a road. Weird!

Someone added this comment on the Smiley Face site which really makes a lot of sense to me:

If dogs don’t track the victims scent to the water and if no one watched the victim walk to the water or fall in the water, how can a medical examiner or detective determine the young man is the victim of an accidental drowning?

This was a thought of mone exactly! If Elisa walked on the roof, took off her clothes, and jumped in to the tank, the dogs would have followed the scent of her route to and in the tank. If someone carried her however and her body did not touch anywhere on the roof except the tank, the dogs would get a negative read.

Scent for SAR works in cones. Scent eminates up from the body in a cone shape. Wind can blow this scent cone and confuse the dogs as to location or give a negative read. Water can also deaden the read the dogs have. It was so cold during the weeks she was missing. I couldn't imagine smells being able to permeat without heat. Plus the rooftop probably had a nasty wind gust considering the Santa ana winds were realing during that time.

 

[nerdy]

Interesting connections you all have put out in this thread. I see it very plausible her case is at least being investigated as though it could have connections to serial murder. I don't believe for a second that it was an accident or psychotic break. As to whether or not it's connected to the midwest drowning deaths, my hunch says no. (Just a hunch though.)

I also agree that the video being a setup/reenactment is extraordinarily unlikely.

JMO.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

The victim from Goleta has been identified. She is a college student from Santa Rosa who was visiting the beach for a spring break festival. Police refuse to give any info on the investigation and once again are saying "foul play or accident couldnt be determined".


She could have partied and died of poisoning/overdose considering the atmosphere. Then again it's also the perfect place for someone to drug a victim and drown them. Hm. So sad.
Rest in peace
http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/04/07/36721/woman-s-body-found-in-water-near-popular-uc-santa/

Read on to see if you make any connections please.

 

[Conductor71]

As for the video being set up or acted out, besides that theory just being generally hard to believe for various reasons (just my opinion ), I really think they would have had her acting significantly crazier. Her behavior in that video, while it appears to clearly contain psychosis to my eyes, is apparently so ambiguous to other people that there are massive disagreements all over the internet about whether she's acting sane or crazy.

And given the complexities and premeditation involved in faking any of this stuff, it just seems to be that a perp or perps would find it far, far more appealing to just go find a girl someone, commit their crime, and leave the body elsewhere, just like those other news stories.

All of this is just my opinion, of course.

I didn't express myself clearly enough on the video. In no way do I think it was scripted or directed in advance or by someone in the hall; she was not acting for anyone. I was saying "intentional" in that someone knew that in all likelihood she would be caught on surveillance after she was drugged and this might confuse LE if the death was equivocal, not that he in any way planned this and had EL act up on camera.

In my opinion, the video is just as ambiguous as the circumstances surrounding her death . If we look at just the video alone, the mental health issue is the obvious conclusion for most people. It also the easiest conclusion for the LAPD and coroner to draw. What makes the death equivocal at this point is where the body was found.

As for complexities and planning involved in getting EL on the roof and into a tank; the tank takes a lot of effort by anyone, including EL herself. In my mind, I think it just as unlikely EL shut herself inside for the very same reasons, plus it would have been very difficult for her to do so from a physiological standpoint. IMO, it would have been much easier for her to seek a water source in a nearby shower and/or hide in a closet. While it looks ridiculous to us for a potential killer to go through all the trouble involved in EL's case, how can we say that to him this was not abnormal? Anyone who feels pleasure and little remorse in taking another's life plays fast and loose with our idea of logic in the first place.

 

[noodled1]

Certainly something to keep our eyes on as more information comes forward.

For myself I don't feel the connection between the three events.

One was a prostitute found naked, one was a student out for a party weekend found clothed and then Elisa found in a hotel water tank. 3 very different social scenarios creating different hunting grounds so to speak.

 

[findinganatta]

Thanks for your reply! The daunting thing is, when a body is exposed to water (especially water that is refiltering with chlorine) this could completely eraddicate any remains of drugs or DNA in or on her body.

snipped

Interesting... I figured that DNA might be an issue given the circumstances, but is it really true about the chlorine/refiltering aspect affecting their ability to pick up drug toxicity in her system? I was not familiar with that information, and the news/police certainly didn't indicate that in their stories (not that they necessarily would, I guess). Did you read that somewhere? Thanks!

Also, in terms of signs of assault (sexual or otherwise), there would likely be other indicators, which was what I was actually referring to in my reply. I was taking the DNA part out of the equation altogether. However, whether those signs of intercourse/assault would be visible after the weeks in the cistern are another question. From what I read online regarding info about other cases, they can last in water--especially if it is relatively cold like that of the cistern apparently was.

Ugh, this is getting into some pretty unpleasant detail : / I can't imagine doing this kind of forensic or autopsy work for a living.

 

[findinganatta]

I didn't express myself clearly enough on the video. In no way do I think it was scripted or directed in advance or by someone in the hall; she was not acting for anyone. I was saying "intentional" in that someone knew that in all likelihood she would be caught on surveillance after she was drugged and this might confuse LE if the death was equivocal, not that he in any way planned this and had EL act up on camera.

In my opinion, the video is just as ambiguous as the circumstances surrounding her death . If we look at just the video alone, the mental health issue is the obvious conclusion for most people. It also the easiest conclusion for the LAPD and coroner to draw. What makes the death equivocal at this point is where the body was found.

As for complexities and planning involved in getting EL on the roof and into a tank; the tank takes a lot of effort by anyone, including EL herself. In my mind, I think it just as unlikely EL shut herself inside for the very same reasons, plus it would have been very difficult for her to do so from a physiological standpoint. IMO, it would have been much easier for her to seek a water source in a nearby shower and/or hide in a closet. While it looks ridiculous to us for a potential killer to go through all the trouble involved in EL's case, how can we say that to him this was not abnormal? Anyone who feels pleasure and little remorse in taking another's life plays fast and loose with our idea of logic in the first place.

Ok, that makes much more sense me. If she acted that way of her own accord (drugged or for whatever reason) and a killer was aware of it, there would certainly be a motivation to run with the 'crazy' narrative that he might perceive the world/LE taking away from the video. And definitely it can be very hard to necessarily follow logic when it comes to psychopathic motivations in strange murders. I'm still very much on the fence about it even being murder, but that line of reasoning makes more sense to me than any kind of intentional setup for the camera that has been suggested by some people online.

 

[noodled1]

Thanks for your reply! The daunting thing is, when a body is exposed to water (especially water that is refiltering with chlorine) this could completely eraddicate any remains of drugs or DNA in or on her body.

How would chlorine effect her blood system? I could see being in the water would wash DNA or trace elements off the body on the outside but I doubt it would wash the insides quite like you think it would. Plus this is drinking water levels of chlorine, not swimming pool

 

[Sillybilly]

The victim from Goleta has been identified. She is a college student from Santa Rosa who was visiting the beach for a spring break festival. Police refuse to give any info on the investigation and once again are saying "foul play or accident couldnt be determined".

<bbm>

They did not say what you have in quotes (unless you were quoting from another unlinked article). The article you linked to actually says:

It wasn't immediately known whether foul play was involved or if the death was accidental.

In considering a possible SK, FWIW, the Newport Beach victim, Tina had a 1 month old baby (which the media has not addressed beyond that). We do not know where that baby is, but it is certainly something that sets her apart from both Elisa and the more recent death in Goleta of Giselle Esme Ayala.