Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by gitana1, Mar 2, 2013.

?

Why did Elisa die?

  1. Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    162 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    46 vote(s)
    13.5%
  3. Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    86 vote(s)
    25.1%
  4. Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    7 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    5 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Unsure/Do not know

    36 vote(s)
    10.5%
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  1. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    WS poster The Cheese also linked to a tweet by KFI Crime and Court Reporter, Leonard Files, that made reference to the body being nude. Don't know if that tweet was before Claudia's report or not:

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888790&postcount=350"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013[/ame]
     


  2. Jessica2012

    Jessica2012 Member

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    Hi, I actually thought of scopalamine as well. There were many incidents in New York years ago where robbers would use it in powder form on a paper and ask a victim for directions. When the victim got close they would blow the powder in their face, and the victim would get into a hypnotic state. I know a woman this happened to. She emptied out her bank account, introduced the robbers as her friends, and brought them to her house and made coffee for them. When I saw the video that is what I first thought of. Of course if voluntary/involuntary drugs were involved, there are many possibilities, and we are not sure yet if she was robbed. Regardlessof this, the intent was to render her defenseless (if it was foul play), so I don't discount scopalamine. My opinion only.
     
  3. Conductor71

    Conductor71 New Member

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    RE: Dogs etc.
    I never said the SAR dog had anything to do with the elevator or EL's maybe psychosis.

    The dog has everything to do with our recent expert assertion that 100% EL...

    <modsnip>
     
  4. bourne

    bourne "The truth shall set you free." ~JUSTICE FOR REBEC

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    When I worked in psychiatry, I used the SCID (Structured Clinical Interview DSM Disorders) to conduct clinical interviews of potential clients upon their first entry into the hospital. The interview took several hours, depending on the client and is called a “preliminary assessment”, NOT a diagnosis. Several practitioners and I would perform the SCID three to four times at different time periods in order to obtain accurate diagnoses of clients. So the poster who said you cannot make a diagnosis without personally interviewing the patient face-to-face is correct. And I would add that it takes several sessions to make a more precise diagnosis.

    The DSM-IVR is used as an industry standard “guideline”. Like a yardstick, some clients do not exactly measure to a specific yard, so there may be slight variations in the guidelines/set of criteria used in the diagnoses.

    Also, there appears to be confusion over what the mental health professionals are saying on WS when they say Elisa had a “psychotic break”.

    First of all, they are not making a diagnosis at all. Saying that the video of Elisa in the elevator showed evidence of her experiencing hallucinations and that she appeared to have suffer a psychotic break is not giving Elisa a diagnosis with a specific disorder. It is identifying a specific event that Elisa was experiencing.

    Second, psychosis is only ONE criteria for many different diagnoses including substance dependence (drug addiction), bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. So the poster who wrote that no professional can diagnosis Elisa with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia is, to a certain extent, correct albeit given the other variables we’ve been told about Elisa – that she was on drugs treating bipolar disorder and depression – taking the totality of everything we know thus far about Elisa, it is entirely plausible that the professional is accurate in her assessment of Elisa.

    For what it's worth, IMO, Elisa did suffer a psychotic break in the elevator. But that may be an entirely separate issue from how she got onto the roof and into the water tank. I'm inclined to believe that she did so on her own, but as I've said before, someone else could have taken advantage of her vulnerable state and did something awful to her.

    *Disclaimer: I have been in retirement ever since I married a wonderful man many moons ago, and I do not consider myself a mental health “expert”, only someone with psychiatric knowledge, training, and past experience. I'm not forcing anyone to believe anything. In fact, I encourage healthy skepticism as that's a sign of a true scientific mind.
     
  5. noodled1

    noodled1 Active Member

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    Snipped

    Thank you.
     
  6. Doruk

    Doruk New Member

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    In the videos, the people sleepwalking are yawning and their eyes are sleepy. Completely different from EL in the elevator. I see no semblance of sleepwalking in EL.
     
  7. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    Maybe this deserves another thread, but weird coincidences with Dark Water films (original and remake). I didn't think much of these originally, but after watching some footage from each of the films and reading the synopsis, there are several way too close-for-comfort connections:

    - young asian woman, alone in new apartment
    - rooftop water tank: daughter crawls up ladder, falls in and dies
    - many strange elevator occurrences
    - flooding in room (flooding between 3rd and 4th, poss Elisa's room)
    - daughter's name is Ceci
    - dark water coming out of faucets

    These types of connections suggest to me that there is some sort of ritualistic/copycat aspect to this homicide that has not been fully explored.

    Due to these ritualistic/copycat aspects, it suggests to me that this was the work of SK(s) who are into satanism/occult and carrying out evil acts in order to appease their false god.

    Based on all my accumulated circumstantials, I've come to the conclusion that 1 of 2 things happened to Elisa:

    1. She had a complete mental breakdown, possibly followed her memories of Dark Water, and proceeded to re-enact parts of the film, resulting in her demise.

    2. One or two perps took her out. I'm leaning towards 2 - a male and a female. Both "gothic", into the occult, and possibly made contact with Elisa prior to her arrival at hotel. She was a sacrificial "lamb" for them. Heavily tattooed metal singer and his female friend/groupie seem like interesting suspects to me.
     
  8. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Ooookay, oookay, I used the word diagnosis when I posted the rules for a diagnosis and why I think, it is impossible to say from a 2 minute video without sound, to estimate whether a patient is in a psychotic break.
    All I get is, it is not a diagnosis (which takes days, maybe weeks to make), but well, you could use SCID, which takes only some hours of interviewing and alone wouldn't be enough to say for sure. a patient is psychotic. So, even for a preliminary, you need hours ... or a two minute elevator video ...
    So, with all respect, but this is just a word game. Whether I say, it is impossible to make up from a 2 minute video a diagnosis or you say, hello, this is no diagnosis, you would need only some hours for a basically noncommittal preliminary interviews an formalized SCID, this is basically the same problem: It can't be done from a 2 minute video. Just that.
     
  9. KALI

    KALI On Time Out

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    Do we know if there was water in her lungs?
     
  10. noodled1

    noodled1 Active Member

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    There has been no real details released other than to say the preliminary autopsy didn't reveal a cause of death. Waiting for the results from the more in-depth look.
     
  11. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    Interesting to know that Feb 1/2 are high holy days for satanists. As far as the 'splices', i'm not so sure of that. Because of the Youtube video's compression, it's hard to extrapolate "real" splices and fake ones based on poor compression. There does seem to be a funky thing that happens with the timestamp between :12-:14, but I would really have to see the actual VHS/interlaced video on a normal television to determine that. Also, I see the door quickly starting to close, then opening. I believed this to be d/t the fact that she hit door hold accidently after hitting her floor. I believe she meant to hit "door close", and I believe she meant to do that because even as she walked into the elevator she was in a hurry to get down. Not extremely nervous, but in a definite rush to get downstairs, faster than just hitting the floor button would allow.
     
  12. MissedItByThatMuch

    MissedItByThatMuch Former Member

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    It's true Noodled. This is what got me interested in the case, but the reports are not fully accurate. When I looked into the timestamp for myself, I found that the first two minutes run without any breaks from 22:00 minutes to 23:59. Then, instead of rolling to 24:00, the timestamp shows 21:00, 21:01, 21:02, 21:03, 21:04, 25:00, 25:01, 25:02, 25:03, 25:04, 25:07, 25:10, 25:11, 25:14, at which time the door closes, almost two minutes to the second after Elisa pressed the door-hold button again at 23:12 and at 23:15. After 25:14, the timestamp no longer misses seconds, and it ends at 25:59.

    There are nearly three seconds missing betwen 25:04 and 25:07, another two seconds missing between 25:07 and 25:10, and another couple of seconds between 25:11 and 25:14. In all, there are those roughly eight seconds missing as well as 55 seconds of the 24th minute. In order to prove this to yourself, learn to decipher the shapes as their true digits. It's easy. Just watch the characters roll by a few times, and you'll clue in what digits each one represents. It might take about an hour, or two, to get really familiar.
     
  13. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    I had a comment on here a few minutes ago that was apparently deleted. Was this done because of a posting violation I wasn't aware of?
     
  14. bessie

    bessie Verified Insider

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    Social media pages of individuals not named as POI's are off limits.
     
  15. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    any chance I could copy/re-edit that post? pm?
     
  16. MissedItByThatMuch

    MissedItByThatMuch Former Member

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    The "holy" day of Feb 1/2 is called Imbolg by some.

    I made a lot of mistakes in my haste to explain this video. You need to reconsider your position. She never hits the door-close button once; there is logic for that claim. She hits the hold-door button several times in both her visits to the buttons. After she hits the row of buttons and they light up, but a split second before she hits the door-hold button, the door is (at the 12th second) gearing up to close for going down to the 10th floor. But the door "changes it's mind" and re-opens (at the 13th second) because she hit the door-hold button at the 13th second, over-riding the command to go to the 10th floor.

    The reason that she never hit the door-close button is that she didn't want to. She stands up straight like one waiting for the door to close, but when it doesn't close, she doesn't even attempt to press the door-close button. That's how we know there is something amiss. There's another explanation for this aside from her holding the elevator for a friend; she wanted the viewer to believe that she wanted to go down, when it wasn't true. With all due respect to those who take the position I once held, she wasn't playing with her lover; she was playing with us, the intended viewers.

    As someone else pointed out, she walks off out of the elevator, in her second bout with the buttons, without even waiting for the door to close...because she knew she didn't press the door-close button. On this second instance, she made sure to press the door-hold button every two seconds at least to make sure there would not be a repeat of the first act, where the door started to close three seconds after pressing the 10th-floor button. So, why was she acting for the camera?
     
  17. Newton

    Newton Active Member

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    Can you please let me know where in the video you see "the people sleepwalking are yawning" because that doesn't happen in the links I posted. As far the eyes being sleepy, I am guessing that varies on the person, the individual sleepwalking event, and the observed moment within the event. Thanks.
     
  18. MissedItByThatMuch

    MissedItByThatMuch Former Member

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    If you have never seen the evidence before, of the video tampering, and if you come to believe that the tampering is true due to the inconsistencies in the timestamp, then before assuming too much, consider that the timestamp may be completely foreign to the video, and wholly pasted in. It might even be misleading if it doesn't reflect the true time or even day of the video. I have a lot of difficult questions due to this timestamp, which is why I'm here, to get your help if possible.

    Who was the likely persons(s) to provide this butchered timestamp situation: the hotel, the killer(s), and/or the police? I would expect that the police provided the timestamp in the pixel form that it's in, but if so, did they perfectly convert the pixel numbers from the normal "English" timestamp of the original video? Can we trust the times in the timestamp, or are we to disregard it completely? Would the Los Angeles police answer someone's question if that question were put to them? What does this timestamp mean? Everything for solving the case, or nothing?
     
  19. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    I've always assumed that the timestamp was "blurred" for evidence purposes. This happens all the time to CCTV footage, in order to give the police/detective a leg up on the public/perp as far as evidence.

    As far as the door close button, I am still of the belief that due to her poor vision, she accidentally pressed this button thinking it was door open. She hit all the different levels because she desperately wanted the elevator to go down. She looks, at the least, very frustrated when the door doesn't close soon after she hits the buttons... Now later, when she goes through the row of buttons again, I believe she is doing it with other intentions, and/or someone else's intentions.

    Suspect-wise, I put out some ideas in a previous post but it was deleted due to the inclusion of links to these individuals social media accounts. In any case, I can still put out info that led me my profiling of said perps:

    Poss. Perp 1, lives in LA:

    1. Male heavily into occult, tattoos, metal music, etc. Lived in both San Diego and Los Angeles. Familiar with San Diego Zoo. Boyish charm masking a sociopath/sk.

    (Elisa mentioned a "fun tattoo'ed guy" at the Cecil. She went to check out music in SD, along with the Zoo. This possible perp is a musician, tatted, has lived in both LA/SD, and according to FB has been to the zoo. She poss had low self-esteem and was relatively easy to pick up/manipulate by other men.)

    Poss. Perp 2, lives in Canada, but family with Perp. 1:

    2. Female that is either friends or family with male perp. Heavily into occult, also a sociopath/sk. Has girlish charm that can be used to gain the trust of other women.

    (IMO, Elisa is talking to 2 people outside elevator. First the one on the left, that frisks her/tries to calm her down (Female Perp) and one on the right that arrives later and makes some threats to her (male perp) that she tries to wiggle out of conversationally).

    Is it possible that Elisa lost her phone in SD, then somehow tracked it to somewhere else in the building? Or even heard it going off? She attempted to retrieve it, did so, then things went downhill. This is re: the frisking.

    Another though regarding the elevator buttons. Lets say that she needed to use the bathroom late the night of the 31st, but d/t the flooding conditions in the bathroom on 4, she decided to go use a br on another floor. She started up high, 14, saw it was busy, got into the elevator planning to check every floor on the way down. Maybe br availability at the Cecil is tough and she had done something similar before?
     
  20. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    <rsbm>

    Do you know where in BC for possible perp 2?

    Yesterday I was on EL's tumblr ... clicked through a bit and next thing I knew had a "malicious" hit that was dealt with. Checked the IP and the server backlinks .. first thing up was a dark*****productions out of NY and another site in BC.

    WRT tracking the phone, if she had a gps tracker on it, it would have been possible to track it from any computer. She might have even phoned them and made arrangements to meet to get it back?
     
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