Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[noodled1]

Also coming from LA like Nerdy above me I can say he's spot on. There's been more murders and things since Elisa and as I commented before the only reason this ever became as newsy as it did is because she was a Canadian tourist to start, then she was seen in a funky video and finally she was found in a water tank in a hotel that's creepy in it's own history.

You change things up and say she's from Fresno, give us an old high school pic and find her body in a parking lot and it's one day in the news at the most.

 

[findinganatta]

Nerdy, your comments actually make a lot of sense. I suppose what makes me feel that her story is compelling in a typical media sense is the intrigue of it. It is a very unique circumstance, even if death/murder are common in such areas. But that intrigue is a pretty abstract thing that's hard to translate in terms of gauging public interest. Obviously, though, the public isn't outcrying. Of course her family doesn't live in the US and seems like a very quiet, humble bunch who aren't going to be running to the news.

Elisa was a very pretty girl with many life prospects, and non-white/hispanic murders/disappearances increasingly make big news. But perhaps the way she died is so nebulous and her personality has mostly been expressed to the public through a video in which she is acting very strangely has a lot of effect on the story. I definitely understand the LA context of it, and that probably plays more of a role than I'm giving it credit for. Maybe if this had happened in more of an 'innocent' town, there would be a somewhat different perception and reaction.

But despite all of that, the lack of information just seems beyond compare in my memory. Even in places like LA and NYC, mysterious deaths tend to have some kind of ongoing reporting for a while, even if it's a relative trickle. The whole case is just so weird.

You change things up and say she's from Fresno, give us an old high school pic and find her body in a parking lot and it's one day in the news at the most.

Oh, absolutely. Even in the Midwestern city where I'm from, that would be true. It's really all of the strangeness that I thought would carry EL's story and light a fire under the investigation. Although, they very well may have done all they can do.

 

[nerdy]

Of course her family doesn't live in the US and seems like a very quiet, humble bunch who aren't going to be running to the news.

Yes. And please let me add I don't think her family is uncaring, I just think it's a cultural difference.

Elisa was a very pretty girl with many life prospects, and non-white/hispanic murders/disappearances increasingly make big news. But perhaps the way she died is so nebulous and her personality has mostly been expressed to the public through a video in which she is acting very strangely has a lot of effect on the story. I definitely understand the LA context of it, and that probably plays more of a role than I'm giving it credit for. Maybe if this had happened in more of an 'innocent' town, there would be a somewhat different perception and reaction.

Agreed, she was very pretty. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I'm just very jaded about over-representation of certain demographics (and I'm ex-media to boot).

 

[Newton]

In 2012 there were close to 300 homicides in the city of Los Angeles. Sadly, it is probably not feasible for the media to give them all the coverage that we think they deserve.
I think the reason LAPD is silent on this is because they don't have anything else to say until the toxicology reports come back. *IF* it was determined to be homicide from the preliminary autopsy findings or *IF* there were definite indications of foul play, I feel that they would have alerted the public unless they felt it would jeopardize their case (ex: if POI is a flight risk). Either way, I think it is unreasonable to jump to conclusions that LE is trying to hide anything. Many murders in this world go unsolved. To think that there is some grand cover-up for fear of a PR backlash is silly, imo.

 

[Sillybilly]

In 2012 there were close to 300 homicides in the city of Los Angeles. Sadly, it is probably not feasible for the media to give them all the coverage that we think they deserve.
I think the reason LAPD is silent on this is because they don't have anything else to say until the toxicology reports come back. *IF* it was determined to be homicide from the preliminary autopsy findings or *IF* there were definite indications of foul play, I feel that they would have alerted the public unless they felt it would jeopardize their case (ex: if POI is a flight risk). Either way, I think it is unreasonable to jump to conclusions that LE is trying to hide anything. Many murders in this world go unsolved. To think that there is some grand cover-up for fear of a PR backlash is silly, imo.

I'll tell you what's weird though Newton ... because Elisa was Canadian, it is highly unusual here in Canada that our MSM wouldn't be pushing LAPD for info, if only to report to Canadians that LAPD says there is nothing further at this time, waiting toxicology, etc.

 

[Newton]

I'll tell you what's weird though Newton ... because Elisa was Canadian, it is highly unusual here in Canada that our MSM wouldn't be pushing LAPD for info, if only to report to Canadians that LAPD says there is nothing further at this time, waiting toxicology, etc.

After a quick Google search, I found the media coverage in Canada to be on par with Los Angeles. Often when cases appear over and over in the media it is because the deceased's loved ones are urging the media and the public for more help. A good example of this is the Lauren Spierer case. Her parents have been diligent about keeping her story alive through interviews, fundraisers, events, rewards for info, and heartfelt letters to the public. Elisa's parents, on the other hand, have made it clear that they do not want to be interviewed or quoted. This in and of itself is rather telling. If LE won't have any new details to report until the tox results come back, and if Elisa's family wants privacy, I don't understand what people are expecting from the media.

British Columbia has less than half the population size of Los Angeles County. I would be curious to know how much coverage the media there gave BC's 118 homicides in 2009.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/21/hotel-body-water.html

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/search-results/ctv-bc-search-7.105?q=elisa+lam

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7992016

 

[findinganatta]

In 2012 there were close to 300 homicides in the city of Los Angeles. Sadly, it is probably not feasible for the media to give them all the coverage that we think they deserve.
I think the reason LAPD is silent on this is because they don't have anything else to say until the toxicology reports come back. *IF* it was determined to be homicide from the preliminary autopsy findings or *IF* there were definite indications of foul play, I feel that they would have alerted the public unless they felt it would jeopardize their case (ex: if POI is a flight risk). Either way, I think it is unreasonable to jump to conclusions that LE is trying to hide anything. Many murders in this world go unsolved. To think that there is some grand cover-up for fear of a PR backlash is silly, imo.

I absolutely agree with you about the cover up and jumping to conclusions stuff.

I also agree that they probably have nothing else to say until the toxicology results are in. Where I disagree is with the idea that it's normal for the media has given zero attention to this particular case for about about a month. Even if it was just a very minimal level, like one or two articles discussing the lack of information and ongoing mystery (mostly padded with previously released info--a common media technique), that would seem much more normal to me. I say this because, despite the fact that there are obviously many other murder/suspicious death cases out there, this one already made headline as a pretty big national story when the elevator video was released, and certainly when the body was found in the tank. You'd think that, if nothing else, they'd throw the story back into the papers/websites on a slow news day sometime in the last few weeks. It certainly would fit the normal pattern of how stories with similar intrigue/mystery have been covered.

So yeah, I definitely wasn't thinking about cover ups or anything when I asked the questions previously. I was just genuinely trying to rationalize what seems somewhat irrational to me.

I think the idea that her parents/family have not fed into the media probably plays a role, as you suggested, and of course the fact that there isn't any new info from the investigation. But, like I said, to me the utter lack of coverage seems a little strange within the overall context. But maybe I'm just not seeing beyond the view of we who are particularly interested in it.

 

[Newton]

But, like I said, to me the utter lack of coverage seems a little strange within the overall context. But maybe I'm just not seeing beyond the view of we who are particularly interested in it.

I guess to me when there is nothing new to report, it makes sense that the media focuses on other stories. For every person that wants to read the same story with no new info, there would likely be many more angered that they wasted time reading a report that just rehashes what has already been reported.

 

[Conductor71]

conclusions stuff.

I also agree that they probably have nothing else to say until the toxicology results are in. Where I disagree is with the idea that it's normal for the media has given zero attention to this particular case for about about a month. Even if it was just a very minimal level, like one or two articles discussing the lack of information and ongoing mystery (mostly padded with previously released info--a common media technique), that would seem much more normal to me. I say this because, despite the fact that there are obviously many other murder/suspicious death cases out there, this one already made headline as a pretty big national story when the elevator video was released, and certainly when the body was found in the tank. You'd think that, if nothing else, they'd throw the story back into the papers/websites on a slow news day sometime in the last few weeks. It certainly would fit the normal pattern of how stories with similar intrigue/mystery have been covered.

So yeah, I definitely wasn't thinking about cover ups or anything when I asked the questions previously. I was just genuinely trying to rationalize what seems somewhat irrational to me.

My thoughts too. More below.

If LE won't have any new details to report until the tox results come back, and if Elisa's family wants privacy, I don't understand what people are expecting from the media.

I don't really expect much from the media; they are more a reflection of LE's decision to withhold any further info and perhaps her family's wish for privacy. In fact, they resorted to reporting on the "corpse water" because they were intentionally shut out very early on though not due to any sort of conspiracy. I thought it was fairly common for LE to have media strategies for more sensitive cases and for whatever reason this must be a bit different. I am wondering why LE is (and RCMP) are being so quiet. Again, no conspiracies; just trying to figure out their motivation.

I think there are more than a few friends and family who have openly expressed how upsetting it is to read all the speculation that has gone on. The absence of any official statement by the LAPD plus all the early conflicting reports, topped off with the video, just made that worse.

Plus as Findinginatta pointed out, there was alot of coverage early on and a very sincere appeal to the public for clues both from her loved ones and two LE departments in different countries. Hold a press conference when a young woman goes missing when she is one of thousands (doubt she is the first Canadian to vanish here) and then just cut off all communication? Having officers cancel media interviews? That in and of itself is weird. Really all that was required was a simple statement issued by the LAPD that the case will not be discussed until the toxicology report is complete.

Even an update now is warranted. Just a simple reminder they are still awaiting toxicology results they are expected in a couple weeks would do. In the meantime, they could simply clarify all the conflicting reports from the media. They don't have to reveal anything beyond a simple summary of what basic things have transpired like they are aware of her social network accounts, that the elevator behavior was out of character for her, etc. It is almost like they want people to forget or to buy time or something. Maybe this is a standard police-media relationship for equivocal death investigations? I don't think this is a cover up but think it might be a clue as to what LE thinks the manner of death might be.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't think intrigue is that big of a factor when it comes to media coverage. Not by itself, at least. I think the whole "How could that happen here/How could that happen to her?" is a much bigger one. And no, I don't think they go hand-in-hand.

For example, there are many relatively unknown cases that have a book about them (see most of Ann Rice's books) and many cases that were relatively high profile and have never been written about.

 

[kunibob]

British Columbia has less than half the population size of Los Angeles County. I would be curious to know how much coverage the media there gave BC's 118 homicides in 2009.

(snipped by me to save space)

There tends to be at least one article for each homicide here, though the victim is not always named. Homicides are still low enough per capita that they are considered newsworthy. I've also seen several local homicides get much longer-lasting media coverage here than Elisa. I would provide some names for comparison, but not sure if that's okay to do or not.

Honestly, given the way the media was disrespecting Elisa, I'm kind of glad they've stopped. :\

 

[findinganatta]

snipped
Even an update now is warranted. Just a simple reminder they are still awaiting toxicology results they are expected in a couple weeks would do. In the meantime, they could simply clarify all the conflicting reports from the media. They don't have to reveal anything beyond a simple summary of what basic things have transpired like they are aware of her social network accounts, that the elevator behavior was out of character for her, etc.

Yes, this is exactly the kind of article I would expect. You did a better job of describing a potential example, just a "Hotel Water Tank Death Remains a Mystery" kind of thing--like we see all the time. In my opinion, the fact that no foul play information has been released is cause for an update, regardless of the tox results... that's certainly standard kind of coverage.

And for those who think it's not abnormal for there to have been no news stories in the last several weeks, I just want to clarify something about my original post regarding this subject. I definitely didn't expect the story to maintain a big presence in the media without significant publicly-known developments, or even for it to be written about at all in the bigger news sources. BUT, the reason I am puzzled is that literally no one in the entire professional media has written anything in this period of time, at least if Google News and various other searches are any indication (it's possible I missed something in the American media, but only if it was very far under any radar).

And while intrigue itself may not be a primary factor in a story's media coverage, it certainly plays a role. And again, the fact that the story was in the big headlines in the first place would seem to predict some degree of coverage at some level of the American media in the last month, even if it was only a little AP/Reuters story along the lines of what Conductor71 described.

I'm not suggesting that Elisa's death is more important or deserves more coverage than thousands of other suspicious deaths or murders out there. My confusion is with what I perceive to be an inconsistency in the way that such a story would usually be covered.

Ultimately, the most logical explanation I can think of is that it has basically been accepted by the media (and presumably most readers/viewers) that the big big question is already answered by default... in other words, that foul play was not involved, and therefore all that's left to report is the tox results, especially if they test positive for something illegal or unusual.

Anyway, like with most things in this case, there is no way to determine the answers to this media question. Unless anyone has any new ideas about it, personally I will move away from the topic before I get too overbearing

 

[Newton]

(snipped by me to save space)

There tends to be at least one article for each homicide here, though the victim is not always named. Homicides are still low enough per capita that they are considered newsworthy. I've also seen several local homicides get much longer-lasting media coverage here than Elisa. I would provide some names for comparison, but not sure if that's okay to do or not.

Honestly, given the way the media was disrespecting Elisa, I'm kind of glad they've stopped. :\

Maybe I am cynical but i would have to see to believe that an article is written or media report done for every homicide in BC. So in 2009 you recall there being over 100 individual homicides being covered by the media? That is rather extraordinary if they did cover them all.

Was there something specific you were referring to about the media disrespecting Elisa? I am sure I have missed some of the coverage so please provide links if possible. Thanks.

 

[Newton]

My thoughts too. More below.


I think there are more than a few friends and family who have openly expressed how upsetting it is to read all the speculation that has gone on. The absence of any official statement by the LAPD plus all the early conflicting reports, topped off with the video, just made that worse.

Plus as Findinginatta pointed out, there was alot of coverage early on and a very sincere appeal to the public for clues both from her loved ones and two LE departments in different countries. Hold a press conference when a young woman goes missing when she is one of thousands (doubt she is the first Canadian to vanish here) and then just cut off all communication? Having officers cancel media interviews? That in and of itself is weird. Really all that was required was a simple statement issued by the LAPD that the case will not be discussed until the toxicology report is complete.

Even an update now is warranted. Just a simple reminder they are still awaiting toxicology results they are expected in a couple weeks would do. In the meantime, they could simply clarify all the conflicting reports from the media. They don't have to reveal anything beyond a simple summary of what basic things have transpired like they are aware of her social network accounts, that the elevator behavior was out of character for her, etc. It is almost like they want people to forget or to buy time or something. Maybe this is a standard police-media relationship for equivocal death investigations? I don't think th
is is a cover up but think it might be a clue as to what LE thinks the manner of death might be.

I may be ignorant on some of what you said. What conflicting media reports?
What interviews with media were cancelled, by whom, when, and do you know if it was at the family's request? Links, please.

I posted a while back as to why some missing persons cases receive urgent and immediate attention in Los Angeles and provided links. Elisa met at least two of the criteria so it is not hard to understand why there was an active, public response.

If you have ever visited a news site and read the comments on a story with no new info, you may understand why they prefer to wait until new info is available. They get multiple comments accusing the publication of being opportunistic, or trying to profit off of something when there is nothing new to report or being told that they are being disrespectful, etc, etc.

LE said 6-8 weeks-not sure what a public countdown would accomplish.

 

[Conductor71]

I may be ignorant on some of what you said. What conflicting media reports?

how the body was found
roof access

What interviews with media were cancelled, by whom, when, and do you know if it was at the family's request? Links, please.

I posted this link a few times as did another member but it has been since taken off Youtube. Here is the original. The canceled interview part is at 1:47

Reshmi Nair of CBC on Elisa Lam.

I posted a while back as to why some missing persons cases receive urgent and immediate attention in Los Angeles and provided links. Elisa met at least two of the criteria so it is not hard to understand why there was an active, public response.

I looked but could not find your original post. Was one of the criterion that there was evidence EL was hurt or in danger? LAPD reported this to Canadian TV, but I didn't catch that here.


News Summary of CBC report from 2/7 (linked below)

The LAPD had evidence on February 6th that LE could be hurt or in danger. Note: this doesn't necessarily default to homicide.

The press conference with release of photo was strategic, as the police were treating her disappearance as more than a typical missing persons case.


Los Angeles police say they have evidence that Elisa Lam may be hurt or in danger

I think that not speaking on the case at this point is also strategic. I am simply wondering how this works with our theories on accidental vs homicide as manner of death. Nothing more.

 

[kunibob]

Maybe I am cynical but i would have to see to believe that an article is written or media report done for every homicide in BC. So in 2009 you recall there being over 100 individual homicides being covered by the media? That is rather extraordinary if they did cover them all.

Was there something specific you were referring to about the media disrespecting Elisa? I am sure I have missed some of the coverage so please provide links if possible. Thanks.

Yes, I recall there being over 100 individual homicides covered by the media. I'll do a more in-depth search to catch all the BC ones, if you like, but I think this is enough to illustrate my point -- here is a map of the 72 homicides that occurred just in Metro Vancouver & the Fraser Valley in 2009, with link to at least one article for each of them (though most end up with, on average, 2-3 -- "we've found a body," "it's gang-related/not", "suspect charged/police are looking for suspects.") If you click a name, it'll show you the links to at least one article.

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/features/homicide/2009.html

Homicides are considered very big news here.

The disrespect is more of a subjective thing than objective -- all the media reports talking about how disgusting the water was and how unsanitary it is for a dead girl to be in the water, when IMHO the focus should be on the passing of a young and promising girl. It was an emotional reaction on my part, so I'm not going to bother posting links -- what I find disrespectful, others probably just find factual. I'm too close to this case.

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe I am cynical but i would have to see to believe that an article is written or media report done for every homicide in BC. So in 2009 you recall there being over 100 individual homicides being covered by the media? That is rather extraordinary if they did cover them all.

I'm in BC and would agree with kunibob that every known homicide in BC is covered by the media to some extent.

 

[Newton]

Yes, I recall there being over 100 individual homicides covered by the media. I'll do a more in-depth search to catch all the BC ones, if you like, but I think this is enough to illustrate my point -- here is a map of the 72 homicides that occurred just in Metro Vancouver & the Fraser Valley in 2009, with link to at least one article for each of them (though most end up with, on average, 2-3 -- "we've found a body," "it's gang-related/not", "suspect charged/police are looking for suspects.") If you click a name, it'll show you the links to at least one article.

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/features/homicide/2009.html

Homicides are considered very big news here.

Thank you kindly for researching and posting the info and link! It is commendable that media reports on each one. That is a bit of a culture shock for me

The disrespect is more of a subjective thing than objective -- all the media reports talking about how disgusting the water was and how unsanitary it is for a dead girl to be in the water, when IMHO the focus should be on the passing of a young and promising girl. It was an emotional reaction on my part, so I'm not going to bother posting links -- what I find disrespectful, others probably just find factual. I'm too close to this case.

Thankfully I missed a lot of those reports.

 

[Sillybilly]

Was snooping around through old posts about the ladder when I came upon this pic again:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1....e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

Is that Elisa's hooded black coat lying on the rooftop (to the left of the man in the white shirt with the umbrella)??

 

[Nickfalzone]

Was snooping around through old posts about the ladder when I came upon this pic again:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1....e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

Is that Elisa's hooded black coat lying on the rooftop (to the left of the man in the white shirt with the umbrella)??

wow, u may be onto something there: