Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Why did Elisa die?

  • Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    Votes: 162 47.4%
  • Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    Votes: 46 13.5%
  • Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    Votes: 86 25.1%
  • Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • Unsure/Do not know

    Votes: 36 10.5%

  • Total voters
    342
Status
Not open for further replies.

Nickfalzone

New Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
114
Reaction score
3
They found it was accidental drowning. Not sure what psychic you're referring to.

The only reason they "found it" to be accidental drowning is due to lack of evidence that proved any other manner of death. If there's specific evidence that points to accidental drowning, beyond circumstance, I'd like to hear it.
 

LittleWing

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
146
Reaction score
1
The only reason they "found it" to be accidental drowning is due to lack of evidence that proved any other manner of death. If there's specific evidence that points to accidental drowning, beyond circumstance, I'd like to hear it.

Yes.

If we're to believe that no foul play was involved and this was indeed an accident....

...for her to even get onto that roof she'd have to know to go out one of the windows to the fire escape...which is certainly possible considering the skyline photos on her Instagram. She could be familiar with gaining roof access. Or someone could have told her/shown her. Fine. So she takes the next step to reach the tallest spot on the roof, possibly climbs up the ladder on the service room and steps onto the tank for a picture.....if the lid is off and she fell in, ok maybe...but there were no reported signs of significant outer trauma to her body. You'd think she'd have scraped herself or banged an elbow or SOMETHING on her way down.

The only other option....she climbed into that tank purposefully for some other reason and didn't have the intention of dying. Either caused by a psychotic break or she did it with her full capacities (god only knows why). She couldn't stand in the tank and eventually lost her strength/passed out from malnourishment and drowned, or the tank filled with water, submerging her.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

neo

New Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
They found it was accidental drowning. Not sure what psychic you're referring to.

I had posted earlier links you will have to find otherwise i will repost again tomorrow. Basically it was haunted ghost theory and psychic had predicted police wont find any foul play
 

findinganatta

New Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
200
Reaction score
10
I had posted earlier links you will have to find otherwise i will repost again tomorrow. Basically it was haunted ghost theory and psychic had predicted police wont find any foul play
Well half of us on this message board predicted the same thing. She's not much of a psychic :)
 

danzn16

For the missing
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
3,667
Reaction score
1,365
Yes.

If we're to believe that no foul play was involved and this was indeed an accident....

...for her to even get onto that roof she'd have to know to go out one of the windows to the fire escape...which is certainly possible considering the skyline photos on her Instagram. She could be familiar with gaining roof access. Or someone could have told her/shown her. Fine. So she takes the next step to reach the tallest spot on the roof, possibly climbs up the ladder on the service room and steps onto the tank for a picture.....if the lid is off and she fell in, ok maybe...but there were no reported signs of significant outer trauma to her body. You'd think she'd have scraped herself or banged an elbow or SOMETHING on her way down.

The only other option....she climbed into that tank purposefully for some other reason and didn't have the intention of dying. Either caused by a psychotic break or she did it with her full capacities (god only knows why). She couldn't stand in the tank and eventually lost her strength/passed out from malnourishment and drowned, or the tank filled with water, submerging her.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Do we know she didn't have bruising? Was that on the autopsy report? Sorry it's been a while


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

LittleWing

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
146
Reaction score
1
Do we know she didn't have bruising? Was that on the autopsy report? Sorry it's been a while


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm so very sorry, I'm wrong - there was no mention of bruises but more a lack of obvious outside trauma...

“They didn’t find any bullet holes, they didn’t find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you’ve got to go to the next step,” Los Angeles County Coroner’s spokesman Ed Winter said.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....s-nothing-in-la-death-of-vancouvers-elisa-lam

We are in the process of obtaining the autopsy and tox reports. Conductor71 is in charge of it :)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

Conductor71

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
582
Reaction score
12
I'm so very sorry, I'm wrong - there was no mention of bruises but more a lack of obvious outside trauma...

“They didn’t find any bullet holes, they didn’t find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you’ve got to go to the next step,” Los Angeles County Coroner’s spokesman Ed Winter said.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer....s-nothing-in-la-death-of-vancouvers-elisa-lam


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Not saying this is the case with this case but something of interest to most of us here. Could explain why it took 4 months to say it was an accident.


In detective novels and television crime dramas like CSI, the nation's morgues are staffed by highly trained medical professionals equipped with the most sophisticated tools of 21st-century science. Operating at the nexus of medicine and criminal justice, these death detectives thoroughly investigate each and every suspicious fatality.

The reality, though, is far different. In a joint reporting effort, ProPublica, PBS "FRONTLINE" and NPR spent a year looking at the nation's 2,300 coroner and medical examiner offices and found a deeply dysfunctional system that quite literally buries its mistakes.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/post-mortem/real-csi/
 

Newton

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
128
Reaction score
184
I am relieved to read that she wasn't murdered. I feel really sorry for her family. The posts Elisa made about her parents worrying too much about her are especially heart wrenching. I would have liked to know more details, especially regarding how she got on the roof. If it was via an unlocked door with faulty alarm then the hotel should be held accountable to some extent. It should have been apparent to maintenance that unauthorized individuals were making their way to the roof (litter and spray paint). A better effort to secure both rooftop and cistern access should have been in place.
 

dotr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
42,801
Reaction score
102,621
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/06/20/20915806.html


"L.A. police spokesman Richard French said the force has accepted the findings and while he “can’t speak for detectives,” usually the coroner’s results are fully accepted by police.

Authorities wouldn’t release any further information, including how Lam got into the eight-foot-tall water tank"
 

hannah1988

New Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
315
Reaction score
17
I'm really confused by this story. Do you think that this truly was an accident, or do you think that it was a homicide without any evidence to prove it?

It just seems bizarre to me that a women (regardless of her mental state or if she was bipolar) would find her way to the top of a building and *accidentally* climb into a water tank without anyone noticing.
 

LittleWing

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
146
Reaction score
1
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/06/20/20915806.html


"L.A. police spokesman Richard French said the force has accepted the findings and while he “can’t speak for detectives,” usually the coroner’s results are fully accepted by police.

Authorities wouldn’t release any further information, including how Lam got into the eight-foot-tall water tank"

And why won't they release such information? If the case is closed does it matter to keep it confidential?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

noodled1

Active Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
584
Reaction score
57
Yes.

If we're to believe that no foul play was involved and this was indeed an accident....

...for her to even get onto that roof she'd have to know to go out one of the windows to the fire escape...which is certainly possible considering the skyline photos on her Instagram. She could be familiar with gaining roof access. Or someone could have told her/shown her. Fine. So she takes the next step to reach the tallest spot on the roof, possibly climbs up the ladder on the service room and steps onto the tank for a picture.....if the lid is off and she fell in, ok maybe...but there were no reported signs of significant outer trauma to her body. You'd think she'd have scraped herself or banged an elbow or SOMETHING on her way down.

The only other option....she climbed into that tank purposefully for some other reason and didn't have the intention of dying. Either caused by a psychotic break or she did it with her full capacities (god only knows why). She couldn't stand in the tank and eventually lost her strength/passed out from malnourishment and drowned, or the tank filled with water, submerging her.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

She could easily have gone up the stairs to the roof. It's been discussed and investigated by many here that the alarm to the rooftop did not work and the door was unlocked as per CA law. Getting to the roof was not a problem. We also have plenty of pics of beer bottles and graffiti on the roof that shows it was a regularly visited place.
 

LittleWing

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
146
Reaction score
1
She could easily have gone up the stairs to the roof. It's been discussed and investigated by many here that the alarm to the rooftop did not work and the door was unlocked as per CA law. Getting to the roof was not a problem. We also have plenty of pics of beer bottles and graffiti on the roof that shows it was a regularly visited place.

Yes, I'm not saying it was difficult for her to get on the roof. We don't know if the alarm was disabled on the night she disappeared or was afterwards when the investigation was done. Access to the roof was easy to gain wether through the door or fire escape. I'm not debating that. I was just laying out the scenarios that explain accidental death. Doesn't matter how she accessed the roof cause she obviously did.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

gitana1

Verified Attorney
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
216,713
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/06/20/20915806.html


"L.A. police spokesman Richard French said the force has accepted the findings and while he “can’t speak for detectives,” usually the coroner’s results are fully accepted by police.

Authorities wouldn’t release any further information, including how Lam got into the eight-foot-tall water tank"

Maybe they are trying to preserve her dignity for her family's sake. But releasing everything they know that led to the conclusion this was an accidental death would help quiet the conspiracy theorists and people who think demons were involved. Wait! What am I thinking? Never mind. I guess I can see no good reason to release this information.


The only reason they "found it" to be accidental drowning is due to lack of evidence that proved any other manner of death. If there's specific evidence that points to accidental drowning, beyond circumstance, I'd like to hear it.

Many cases where death is not instantly apparent, are determined via circumstance.

But hon, it works both ways. There was NO evidence of foul play. No signs of trauma, of Elisa having been tied up, of surveillance showing her with anyone (apparently), of any DNA or other evidence indicating someone had been in her room or in her body, etc. You want specific evidence pointing to an accidental drowning but many don't seem to need specific evidence of foul play.

I'm really confused by this story. Do you think that this truly was an accident, or do you think that it was a homicide without any evidence to prove it?

It just seems bizarre to me that a women (regardless of her mental state or if she was bipolar) would find her way to the top of a building and *accidentally* climb into a water tank without anyone noticing.

"Accident" is called such when a person who does not know what they are doing, does something bizarre or dangerous that causes their death, unintentionally. I think it's clear Elisa went purposefully up to the roof in a psychotic state. She probably was trying to hide from whoever her voices were telling her were after her. So she purposefully went into the cistern. Where she died.
 

Nickfalzone

New Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
114
Reaction score
3
Still, we are not dealing with a conclusive cause of death, just a speculative cause of death. Evidence that this was an accidental death would be something like Elisa having a conversation earlier that night with another guest or hotel employee and told them she was going to have fun on the roof late at night and take some cool photos. Or an email or phone call to a friend that indicated a psychosis/paranoia. But those conversations never happened, as far as we know. In fact, there is no evidence that proves accidental death. It is simply a conclusion that LE reached due to lack of evidence. It should be called an "unsolved death", as opposed to a more definitive "accidental" one, since as far as we know, there is no specific evidence to the latter.
 

gitana1

Verified Attorney
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
28,480
Reaction score
216,713
Still, we are not dealing with a conclusive cause of death, just a speculative cause of death. Evidence that this was an accidental death would be something like Elisa having a conversation earlier that night with another guest or hotel employee and told them she was going to have fun on the roof late at night and take some cool photos. Or an email or phone call to a friend that indicated a psychosis/paranoia. But those conversations never happened, as far as we know. In fact, there is no evidence that proves accidental death. It is simply a conclusion that LE reached due to lack of evidence. It should be called an "unsolved death", as opposed to a more definitive "accidental" one, since as far as we know, there is no specific evidence to the latter.

No, it's not speculative. It is the coroner's conclusion. When I go to medical school and pass coroner's boards, then I can argue with the coroner's medical decision. (Or when another medical examiner issues a different opinion).

Lack of evidence is evidence, by the way. And you have no idea whether there were crazy conversations in emails or phone calls or whatever, or any other evidence to suggest that Elisa went in there voluntarily.

But let's say there is nothing but what was released. There is plenty of evidence in this case:

1. A girl with a history of bi-polar disorder and other mental health-related issues is seen on video, alone, in what pretty much every mental health professional has determined is a clearly psychotic state.
2. The same girl goes missing shortly after the tape was made.
3. By deduction, we can surmise that no other surveillance shows her with another individual in the time before she went missing.
4. Her body is found in a cistern several days later. It appears, according to officials, that the body had been in that cistern, basically the entire time she was missing.
5. The roof and the cistern are accessible by hotel patrons and others as can be seen by videotapes and photos of the roof people made before Elisa went missing, by graffiti and empty beer bottles left on the roof and by people who went to the location after Elisa was discovered.
6. No signs of foul play were found. That means no DNA, no finger prints, no obvious injury, no sign of a struggle on her body, or on or in the cistern or roof, no date rape drugs or other drugs in her system, no ligature marks, no tape or rope or other items tying her, no skin under her finger nails, no one hearing yelling, cries for help, no one seeing a struggle or anything suspicious, no one on videotape caught dragging a body or with Elisa or anything else that would cause suspicion, her clothes were not found in another location unrelated to her or her room or the roof, none of her personal items were found in the rooms or on the person of someone else or in another location unrelated to her or her room or the roof, no one confessing or implicating themselves - nothing.
7. No other cause of death was determined.
8. By the laws of physics, it would be virtually impossible to drag dead weight up a tiny ladder and shove it into the cistern. So if someone killed her, they likely had to get her up on the cistern before she was drugged or killed.
9. The cause of death was found to be drowning.

What I find illogical is that some are demanding what they deem "conclusive evidence" (which is what is found when the cause of death is immediately apparent like when people hear gun shots and then find a dead body with a gun shot wound, outside their home, or what is found in fictional t.v. programs like CSI), that Elisa died accidentally.

Yet these same people have no problems with the fact that no conclusive evidence exists suggesting foul play. In fact, not only is there no conclusive evidence suggesting foul play, there is no evidence at all suggesting foul play.

Also, I see posts stating things like, "How could she have gotten into that cistern without anyone seeing?" Totally illogical. How could she have been dragged up onto the roof and into a tank without anyone seeing?

In the absence of what the coroner knows, this is about deductive reasoning, guys. I think it's pretty clear.

I'm glad the case is closed. I'm glad that Elisa's family do not have to suffer the indignities of having the details of her lie and death splashed all over the news to whet the appetites of the morbidly curious. I'm glad Elisa did not have to suffer at the hands of a murderer.

I hope this sweet girl can rest in peace now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top