Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Why did Elisa die?

  • Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    Votes: 162 47.4%
  • Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    Votes: 46 13.5%
  • Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    Votes: 86 25.1%
  • Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • Unsure/Do not know

    Votes: 36 10.5%

  • Total voters
    342
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2Hip2BSquare

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But there would have been no reason for a perp to think that LE would be immediately looking anywhere for anyone, as Elisa wasn't missing at the time, so there is no reason to justify such an elaborate, risky, and difficult place to hide her body. The effort and risk that would have been required to put her in the tank (and again, I think people are drastically underestimating this) would have been far greater than leaving her in an inconspicuous place on the roof.

Not if they are a resident on the 14th floor and had her body in their room... And especially not if they have an accomplice/look out Imo

Tenants have every right to deny LE to enter their home/hotel room as at that time Elisa was only presumed missing

and

also bc CA state laws protect you from unlawful search and seizure of your property without probable cause/warrant. Just because someone is missing, that does not give LE probable cause to issue a warrant for every single room. Even then its dicey.

At any rate, the dogs didn't indicate her body being in the cistern during the early phases of the investigation into her disappearance.

The standard hotel is right across the street. It houses countless numbers of sexual predators, not just offenders! It once was a housing specifically for sexual predators, but the city of LA decided, "why not allow the offenders to stay and fill the vacant rooms by turning it into a hotel?!"

And the standard hotel is born.

Someone from the standard long term residential could have been friends with another long term resident at the Cecil... Would allow them two locations to hide body/commit crime. IMO
 

Conductor71

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Why is LAPD still saying she got into LA on the 26th (or the reporters)?

It's driving me nuts.

Wow, you know this really sucks. EL was not even supposed to be at the Cecil!

<modsnip> she was not even supposed to be in LA. She was booked at a hostel in Santa Monica or so her family thought.

Yahoo Canada also reports this.


Lam's disappearance was considered suspicious, and neither police nor her family could explain why Lam had travelled to L.A., or why she chose to stay in a particularly dangerous part of the city.
 

Conductor71

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I am pretty convinced that mental illness is the culprit after reading she was supposed to be in Santa Monica and was instead in San Diego then LA. It is pretty impulsive to change plans like that plus it kinda goes against the ultra methodical planning she seemed to like (according to her Tumblr). If she went to LA to meet someone, I think that employees at the Cecil would have seen them together. It is crazy how everything in the cosmos had to align for this to happen; now that is creepy!

Here is a link to a poorly translated Chinese update saying they do not want the autopsy to be made public because it would be used as fodder for more conspiracy and murder theories so they wanted to have minimal media attention. Nice gesture for her family, but it is odd they would go this extent.

http://www.best-news.us/news-471172...an-be-drowning-child-died-in-an-accident.html

p.s. Bessie, sorry on the link/post gaffe but info was found via a television report in Canada so thought it was okay.
 

Nickfalzone

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Everyone wants to know the details of the roof access alarm and the tank's hatch. It seems to me based on other sleuthers visits to the hotel over the last few months that the door alarm is not turned on, and has not been on for quite awhile. Others here have been able to walk onto the roof with no issue, and not requiring the fire escape. As far as the cistern hatch - what I have read is that the hatch definitely was not locked prior to her death, but now has a padlock on it. My question about the hatch is how did she manage to open it, squeeze her body through the narrow opening, and then proceed to close the hatch from inside, all during the wee hours of the night? During the day it looks a bit tricky to get in there, but doing so in the dark seems like it would be quite a challenge. Keep in mind that bi-polar disorder does not mean a disconnection from reality. That would be psychosis, which she had not been diagnosed with. As I said earlier, there are probably millions or tens of millions that could be diagnosed as bi-polar and are still able to lead relatively normal lives. The complete disconnect from reality seems more likely to be drug-induced (or withdrawal induced) as opposed to simply a mental health episode. Since tox came back with nothing drug-related in her system, I have difficulty accepting LE's determination.

Additionally, I'd like to add she did all this legally blind (doubtful she made her way down to her room after the elevator situation). To say that the facts indicate a nearly blind, physically weak, young asian female in new surroundings made her way all the way up to the roof (knowing the alarm was not on?) walked over to the water tanks, pick out the one farthest back towards the street, crawl up a ladder, open a relatively difficult-to-open hatch, then pull herself up and in? It just seems preposterous to me, mental illness or not. Almost every decision she made would seem to be made by someone that intricately KNEW the workings of the building, when all appearances are that she barely knew anything about it. Additionally, the lack of K9 alert on any part of the roof is pretty telling imo.
 

LittleWing

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Wow, you know this really sucks. EL was not even supposed to be at the Cecil!

<modsnip> she was not even supposed to be in LA. She was booked at a hostel in Santa Monica or so her family thought.

Yahoo Canada also reports this.


Lam's disappearance was considered suspicious, and neither police nor her family could explain why Lam had travelled to L.A., or why she chose to stay in a particularly dangerous part of the city.

MOO, but I got the impression that Elisa's family worried about her quite a lot. My parents are both rather overbearing at times and my mother especially is a huge worrier, so I found growing up it was easier to not tell them everything.

What I'm trying to say is that it's possible and actually quite probable that Elisa did not necessarily tell her family or friends everything, including a change of plans during her trip, possibly because she did not want them to worry excessively.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

2Hip2BSquare

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Additionally, I'd like to add she did all this legally blind (doubtful she made her way down to her room after the elevator situation).
To say that the facts indicate a nearly blind, physically weak, young asian female in new surroundings made her way all the way up to the roof (knowing the alarm was not on?) walked over to the water tanks, pick out the one farthest back towards the street, crawl up a ladder, open a relatively difficult-to-open hatch, then pull herself up and in? It just seems preposterous to me, mental illness or not. Almost every decision she made would seem to be made by someone that intricately KNEW the workings of the building, when all appearances are that she barely knew anything about it. Additionally, the lack of K9 alert on any part of the roof is pretty telling imo.

"Additionally, I'd like to add she did all this legally blind (doubtful she made her way down to her room after the elevator situation)."

-especially if she were visually impaired AND her sobriety was impaired

(yes, I also still think she was on a substance in that video contrary to the coroner ruling clear toxicology samples.

Reason being that a body in water naturally produces ethanol (alcohol) and GHB. So why tox results didn't indicate this is confusing to me.)
*************************************
"To say that the facts indicate a nearly blind, physically weak, young asian female in new surroundings made her way all the way up to the roof (knowing the alarm was not on?) walked over to the water tanks, pick out the one farthest back towards the street, crawl up a ladder, open a relatively difficult-to-open hatch, then pull herself up and in? It just seems preposterous to me, mental illness or not."

- yes, why would she even attempt to go through a security door if she assumed it were armed?

-LE didn't say they identified her by clothes she was wearing when body was found. So I'm assuming she did not have her clothes on when they found her bc clothing would have been a more ethical way for LE to address how they identified the body, rather than by having to say they had to identify her by bodily features/marks.
*****************************

"Almost every decision she made would seem to be made by someone that intricately KNEW the workings of the building, when all appearances are that she barely knew anything about it."

- Yes, IMHO and theory it is someone who frequently visits a long term resident of the Cecil and knows all the routes to sneak in and out ti visit said friend without being caught by security/cameras and also sneaks in order to avoid the front desk and their nazi visitor $35 fee/rules.

The person visiting the Cecil resident could live close to the Cecil (the standard is across the street) and could have taken Elisa to His place (probably Cecil resident tagged along!) so I will refer to him as the "standard suspect".

Who knows whether she was assaulted in the Cecil residents room upon being lured by both of the suspects or assaulted after being brought to the standard suspect's dwelling.

I can only assume if she were incapacitated/drugged and not conscious it would make her easy to transport in a bag from the Cecil residents dwelling to the standards suspects dwelling.

They could have panicked when The buzz of Elisa being missing began (here in CA it was very early February) and decided to keep her body at the secondary crime scene of the standard suspect (that lives outside of the Cecil) and put her back at the scene of the disappearance (cecil) after the searches for her body were complete and things cooled off surveillance/investigation wise.

of course bringing her back up to the roof by way of inside the hotel is impossible without being noticed.

So this standard sicko gets his buddy and accomplice (the Cecil resident) to lower down the fire escape ladder for him so he can access it up to the roof and drop Elisa's body in the tanks (there is a fire escape that leads directly to the back alley of the Cecil)

The water would destroy most evidence although I'm sure she was cleaned off even prior to being put in the tank...

They dropped her In the tank after the hotel was searched by canines in my theory, which explains why canines did not indicate she was on the roof during the first days of disappearance. She was kidnapped at the cecil, but killed/kept at a secondary scene until being put into the tanks around feb. 6-feb. 8.

*Again all IMHO and my theory/thought only.*


- She barely even knew how to work the elevator, let alone have the calculating mental capabilities to go through all of that logic in a disjointed illogical state - under the influence of a substance or having a psychotic break from reality.
*******************************************

"Additionally, the lack of K9 alert on any part of the roof is pretty telling IMO."

-YES. VERY.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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MOO, but I got the impression that Elisa's family worried about her quite a lot. My parents are both rather overbearing at times and my mother especially is a huge worrier, so I found growing up it was easier to not tell them everything.

What I'm trying to say is that it's possible and actually quite probable that Elisa did not necessarily tell her family or friends everything, including a change of plans during her trip, possibly because she did not want them to worry excessively.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I completely agree. You get tired of people worrying about you all the time or assuming you are up to no good even if you're being innocent,

so it's far better to just keep quiet and not engage them (parents) in details that you know they would think are questionable and will cause them worry...

"Instead of telling mom I'm staying in LA because she thinks the area I wanted to stay was too run down and creepy, I told her I was staying in another area and hotel instead to spare both she and I the headache. But really, I'm going to stay in the heart of the city at the Cecil anyhow. I'm sure mom is overreacting as usual and thinks I'm just having another manic phase."

That kind of mental reasoning.
 

Willow57

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The fact that she was in L. A. close to Skid Row instead of in Santa Monica which was where she had originally planned to go/or told her family she was going....also adds more evidence to the fact that she was suffering a mental break...at least to me....and as I had thought...her family only wanted what needed to be released....released...and everything else kept private. I don't blame them..because there are quite a few conspiracy theorists out there salivating to use this poor woman's death in their delusions. If her family is satisfied and accepts the M.E./L.E. results-then for those who don't....that's their problem. Case Closed!JMO
 

Nickfalzone

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The fact that she was in L. A. close to Skid Row instead of in Santa Monica which was where she had originally planned to go/or told her family she was going....also adds more evidence to the fact that she was suffering a mental break...at least to me....and as I had thought...her family only wanted what needed to be released....released...and everything else kept private. I don't blame them..because there are quite a few conspiracy theorists out there salivating to use this poor woman's death in their delusions. If her family is satisfied and accepts the M.E./L.E. results-then for those who don't....that's their problem. Case Closed!JMO

Alternately, she kept this from her parents because she knew it would upset them. It's certainly possible that she planned to meet an internet buddy at The Cecil, kept it from friends/family, then that person took advantage of her. Lying to her parents says to me that she was afraid of their response to the truth, not that she simply had a mental breakdown.
 

gitana1

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WRONG. Please do your research.

It's incredible how misguided some can be about mental health issues. I see many basing their opinions not on experts but on their own, limited experiences.

But, I'll play. I have a few friends diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Only one (old friend, because it got to be too much), has psychosis. She sees animals everywhere. Little animals that are somewhat transparent.

SHE DID NOT START OUT THAT WAY. At first, she was diagnosed with regular bi-polar, no psychotic features. But it developed. She is in the hospital now.

In Elisa's case, there was some information to indicate that she had begun to have mania (as opposed to hypomania) and was exhibiting bizarre behavior in which she began to disappear on occasion. That would indicate possible psychosis.

But what some seem not to understand is that psychosis starts somewhere at some time. Just because a person was not diagnosed with it previously does not mean they will never have it. In fact, 60% of people with bi-polar disorder experience psychosis when suffering from mania OR depression: http://www.everydayhealth.com/bipolar/specialists/can-psychosis-be-part-of-bipolar.aspx

But now I think we are going around in circles as ALL of this has been discussed here before. So I suppose there is not much more to say.
 

Arkady

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Hi guys,
I just joined WebSleuths. I'm a little late to the party, I only heard about the EL case 3 days ago. However, it really took a hold of me. I think it started with the eerie elevator video, which I have watched at least 20 times so far (my wife refuses to watch it!). But after reading her blog and Tumblr entries, it really personalized this tragedy for me. That poor girl, and her struggles with depression, had a huge affect on me. The fact the LAPD ruled this a &#8220;bizarre accident&#8221; really bothers me.
One thing that I haven&#8217;t seen written about much is the fact that on her pre-Tumbler blog, she claims that she was raped when she was 17:
<modsnip>
You can read more here:
http://etherfields.blogspot.hk/search?updated-max=2011-11-21T21:53:00-08:00&max-results=7
I&#8217;m not saying that the alleged rape and her death are connected, but it could offer us another avenue of investigation. I don&#8217;t know much about Canadian public records, but if she was indeed raped and pressed charges, could there be a public record of it?
Additionally, I haven&#8217;t seen much posted about the post on her Tumblr which I think is a little creepy:
<modsnip>
That was posted on January 27th, about the same day she left for/arrived in LA.
Is it possible (and I know however unlikely it sounds, but we need to look at all possibilities) that the alleged rapist is also the fawning blogger and her killer?
 

2Hip2BSquare

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It's incredible how misguided some can be about mental health issues. I see many basing their opinions not on experts but on their own, limited experiences.

But, I'll play. I have a few friends diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Only one (old friend, because it got to be too much), has psychosis. She sees animals everywhere. Little animals that are somewhat transparent.

SHE DID NOT START OUT THAT WAY. At first, she was diagnosed with regular bi-polar, no psychotic features. But it developed. She is in the hospital now.

In Elisa's case, there was some information to indicate that she had begun to have mania (as opposed to hypomania) and was exhibiting bizarre behavior in which she began to disappear on occasion. That would indicate possible psychosis.

But what some seem not to understand is that psychosis starts somewhere at some time. Just because a person was not diagnosed with it previously does not mean they will never have it. In fact, 60% of people with bi-polar disorder experience psychosis when suffering from mania OR depression: http://www.everydayhealth.com/bipolar/specialists/can-psychosis-be-part-of-bipolar.aspx

But now I think we are going around in circles as ALL of this has been discussed here before. So I suppose there is not much more to say.

I'm confused.

Was she initially diagnosed Bipolar II (less severe psychotic manic episodes)

Or

Was she initially diagnosed Bipolar I
(less severe psychotic depressive episodes)

?

What does regular Bipolar mean, curious?

I think maybe you mean her Bipolar condition (whether 1 or 2) progressed to the point that she began exhibiting psychotic behaviors?

It is very sad how mental illness progresses, especially between the ages of 18-25 :(
 

2Hip2BSquare

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And if Elisa were Bipolar II (which actually I think she was rather than Bipolar I according to her blog)

Then that means psychotic behavior would happen during her depressive phase, NOT manic phase as Bipolar II are unable to experience psychosis from mania - only psychosis from depression.

So if she were having a depressive Bipolar II nervous breakdown, the likelihood of suicide actually increases

Where as if she were Bipolar I and psychosis due to Mania, the likelihood of accidental death increases.

IMO

So why coroner didn't specify Bipolar I from Bipolar II is beyond me.

Just saying "Bipolar" in a generalized way when attributing the disorder to a specific individual in the psych field is an all too vague diagnosis.

You would think coroner would be more specific as it is ever do significant.
 

simon6071

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I think Elisa Lam could have been kidnapped and then drowned by a murderer who forced her head into the water in a bathtub before carrying her naked and drowned body to the roof to be dumped into a water tank. That would be able to trick the incompetent coroner and police detectives that she was drowned in the tank on the roof.

If that is the case, a lot of water could have been splashed out of the bathtub as she struggled. That can explain why there was a report of flooding in a room on the 4th floor.

If Elisa Lam were alive in the tank before drowning, it would be a natural instinct to tread water before she drowned and her head should have been above her feet when her body was found. However, she was found naked and up side down in the 4 ft diameter tank, which indicates she was dumped head first into the tank when she was already dead.

Besides, the police fail to explain how the portable ladder needed to reach the top of the 10 ft tall tank which does not have its own ladder would disappear if Elisa Lam had climbed into the tank and drowned herself. The ladder would not simply disappeared. The murderer would have to remove it to avoid detection.

I also don’t understand why the police totally ignored the fact that the water tank in which Elisa Lam’s body was found was behind a locked door with an alarm and the key was accessible to staff members of the Cecil Hotel only in coming up with the “Accidental “ Drowning ruling.

Some fools tried to defend the absurd claim of “Accidental” Drowning made by the incompetent coroner and police detectives by saying that the door to the roof could have been left open accidentally and the alarm turned off accidentally thus allowing Elisa Lam to wander to the roof. What a bunch of B.S. from those fools!

First of all, the coroner was not supposed to rule the drowning “Accidental” by ASSUMING the door was accidentally left open and the alarm accidentally turned off. Second, even if the door was left open and the alarm turned off due to unknown reason, the coroner and police detectives still should not be so stupid as to assume that Elisa Lam would be the only one able to go through the door undetected.

A kidnapper having murdered Elisa Lam by drowning her in a bathtub in his hotel room could also go through the same door undetected to go to the roof and dump Elisa Lam’s naked body into the tank with the help of a portable ladder to reach the top of the tank which does not have its own ladder on the side.

The Coroner’s office and the LAPD are both incompetent in claiming Elisa Lam’s death “Accidental” Drowning . They are also foolish for failing to consider the possibility that Elisa Lam had been drowned by a murderer in a bathtub before her body was dumped into the water tank on the roof and failing to link the report of flooding on the 4th floor to the possibility of water splashing out of the bathtub due to struggling when someone was drowned by force.

The LAPD should reopen the case as a murder case to avoid being a laughing stock with their stupid claim of “Accidental” Drowning.
 

Arkady

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I think Elisa Lam could have been kidnapped and then drowned by a murderer who forced her head into the water in a bathtub before carrying her naked and drowned body to the roof to be dumped into a water tank. That would be able to trick the incompetent coroner and police detectives that she was drowned in the tank on the roof.

If that is the case, a lot of water could have been splashed out of the bathtub as she struggled. That can explain why there was a report of flooding in a room on the 4th floor.

If Elisa Lam were alive in the tank before drowning, it would be a natural instinct to tread water before she drowned and her head should have been above her feet when her body was found. However, she was found naked and up side down in the 4 ft diameter tank, which indicates she was dumped head first into the tank when she was already dead.

Besides, the police fail to explain how the portable ladder needed to reach the top of the 10 ft tall tank which does not have its own ladder would disappear if Elisa Lam had climbed into the tank and drowned herself. The ladder would not simply disappeared. The murderer would have to remove it to avoid detection.

I also don’t understand why the police totally ignored the fact that the water tank in which Elisa Lam’s body was found was behind a locked door with an alarm and the key was accessible to staff members of the Cecil Hotel only in coming up with the “Accidental “ Drowning ruling.

Some fools tried to defend the absurd claim of “Accidental” Drowning made by the incompetent coroner and police detectives by saying that the door to the roof could have been left open accidentally and the alarm turned off accidentally thus allowing Elisa Lam to wander to the roof. What a bunch of B.S. from those fools!

First of all, the coroner was not supposed to rule the drowning “Accidental” by ASSUMING the door was accidentally left open and the alarm accidentally turned off. Second, even if the door was left open and the alarm turned off due to unknown reason, the coroner and police detectives still should not be so stupid as to assume that Elisa Lam would be the only one able to go through the door undetected.

A kidnapper having murdered Elisa Lam by drowning her in a bathtub in his hotel room could also go through the same door undetected to go to the roof and dump Elisa Lam’s naked body into the tank with the help of a portable ladder to reach the top of the tank which does not have its own ladder on the side.

The Coroner’s office and the LAPD are both incompetent in claiming Elisa Lam’s death “Accidental” Drowning . They are also foolish for failing to consider the possibility that Elisa Lam had been drowned by a murderer in a bathtub before her body was dumped into the water tank on the roof and failing to link the report of flooding on the 4th floor to the possibility of water splashing out of the bathtub due to struggling when someone was drowned by force.

The LAPD should reopen the case as a murder case to avoid being a laughing stock with their stupid claim of “Accidental” Drowning.

I agree wholeheartedly with his scenario, the only detail I would change is that I think the murderer accessed the roof through one of the fire escapes afixed to the inner alleyway of the hotel, that way he would not be readily visible to the surrounding buildings.
 

LittleWing

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If Elisa Lam were alive in the tank before drowning, it would be a natural instinct to tread water before she drowned and her head should have been above her feet when her body was found. However, she was found naked and up side down in the 4 ft diameter tank, which indicates she was dumped head first into the tank when she was already dead.

BBM

Please stop spreading misinformation.
Elisa's position when found and whether or not she was clothed when found is information we have not had confirmed by LE.


Besides, the police fail to explain how the portable ladder needed to reach the top of the 10 ft tall tank which does not have its own ladder would disappear if Elisa Lam had climbed into the tank and drowned herself. The ladder would not simply disappeared. The murderer would have to remove it to avoid detection.
Moot point. She could have accessed the top of the cistern from the adjacent elevator maintenance room, which has a permanent set of stairs.


I also don&#8217;t understand why the police totally ignored the fact that the water tank in which Elisa Lam&#8217;s body was found was behind a locked door with an alarm and the key was accessible to staff members of the Cecil Hotel only in coming up with the &#8220;Accidental &#8220; Drowning ruling.

*sigh*
Has not been verified that the door was actually locked and that the alarm was actually on or working when Elisa disappeared. Please don't assume.


Some fools tried to defend the absurd claim of &#8220;Accidental&#8221; Drowning made by the incompetent coroner and police detectives by saying that the door to the roof could have been left open accidentally and the alarm turned off accidentally thus allowing Elisa Lam to wander to the roof. What a bunch of B.S. from those fools!

First of all, the coroner was not supposed to rule the drowning &#8220;Accidental&#8221; by ASSUMING the door was accidentally left open and the alarm accidentally turned off. Second, even if the door was left open and the alarm turned off due to unknown reason, the coroner and police detectives still should not be so stupid as to assume that Elisa Lam would be the only one able to go through the door undetected.

Sure...if you ASSUME that their entire ruling on COD was based just on the status of the door.........

The Coroner&#8217;s office and the LAPD are both incompetent in claiming Elisa Lam&#8217;s death &#8220;Accidental&#8221; Drowning . They are also foolish for failing to consider the possibility that Elisa Lam had been drowned by a murderer in a bathtub before her body was dumped into the water tank on the roof and failing to link the report of flooding on the 4th floor to the possibility of water splashing out of the bathtub due to struggling when someone was drowned by force.

The LAPD should reopen the case as a murder case to avoid being a laughing stock with their stupid claim of &#8220;Accidental&#8221; Drowning.

I'm sure they looked in to many different possibilities....just because we don't know what they investigated does NOT mean that they didn't investigate a variety of possibilities. Seems foolish to call them the fools when you don't know what they know .
Also..not saying that your theory is impossible....but I'm not sure how someone splashing water from inside a tub could flood an entire floor.........? I was under the impression that there were plumbing issues that caused the flooding.




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Nickfalzone

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With the lack of details in this case, it becomes very easy to blow small things out of proportion - for instance, Mr. Diaz's claim that there was a loud bang that night from the floor above him (he was on 3) and some flooding. This could very well simply be coincidence. That being said, I agree with Simon that there is a reasonable likelihood that the plumbing issues and Elisa's murder are connected, but not in the way that Simon suggested.

How did the murderer get her dead body up from 4 to the roof, likely without using the elevator? First of all, drowning her in a bathtub is not all that likely to cause the pipes to burst and flooding to occur. Secondly, you'd have to be superman to kill her on 4, then using either the stairs or fire escape to drag her up to the roof, with no one even noticing. I have a hard time believing that happened. Instead, I believe that the burst pipes and flooding CAUSED her to go to the 14th floor (where we saw her last), in which a crime of opportunity occurred. She wandered up there late at night because the plumbing in her room went bad and either wanted to use the facilities or knew someone there that she thought could help her out. My issue is that I believe this individual also had access to her room... which he utilized at some point in the process to eliminate evidence. So access to her room could either be her letting him in, he having an employee key, or him taking the card from her pocket before/after death. The latter seems most likely to me, and fits in with the theory that someone was picking through her pockets when she had her hands above her head.

So cliffs:

- Plumbing accident happens on 4th floor in middle of night
- This causes her to find either assistance or another washroom
- For some reason she decides 14 is the place to go
- She pisses someone off on 14 & in a crime of opportunity, they subdue her in some way
- The person drags the body from 14 to the roof and throws in the cistern
- Clothing has been removed d/t potential dna evidence
- Elisa's room was cleaned out/evidence destroyed post-mortem
- Perp probably still living in the building
 

2Hip2BSquare

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With the lack of details in this case, it becomes very easy to blow small things out of proportion - for instance, Mr. Diaz's claim that there was a loud bang that night from the floor above him (he was on 3) and some flooding. This could very well simply be coincidence. That being said, I agree with Simon that there is a reasonable likelihood that the plumbing issues and Elisa's murder are connected, but not in the way that Simon suggested.

How did the murderer get her dead body up from 4 to the roof, likely without using the elevator? First of all, drowning her in a bathtub is not all that likely to cause the pipes to burst and flooding to occur. Secondly, you'd have to be superman to kill her on 4, then using either the stairs or fire escape to drag her up to the roof, with no one even noticing. I have a hard time believing that happened. Instead, I believe that the burst pipes and flooding CAUSED her to go to the 14th floor (where we saw her last), in which a crime of opportunity occurred. She wandered up there late at night because the plumbing in her room went bad and either wanted to use the facilities or knew someone there that she thought could help her out. My issue is that I believe this individual also had access to her room... which he utilized at some point in the process to eliminate evidence. So access to her room could either be her letting him in, he having an employee key, or him taking the card from her pocket before/after death. The latter seems most likely to me, and fits in with the theory that someone was picking through her pockets when she had her hands above her head.

So cliffs:

- Plumbing accident happens on 4th floor in middle of night
- This causes her to find either assistance or another washroom
- For some reason she decides 14 is the place to go
- She pisses someone off on 14 & in a crime of opportunity, they subdue her in some way
- The person drags the body from 14 to the roof and throws in the cistern
- Clothing has been removed d/t potential dna evidence
- Elisa's room was cleaned out/evidence destroyed post-mortem
- Perp probably still living in the building

I agree with her trying to use the bathroom on the 14th floor bc 4th floor was having bathroom issues. The plumbing on the upper floors is considerably better and has better pressure than the first couple of floors.

In the video it seems like she is trying to see if someone is doing something in that corner bathroom. Who knows what. But she is dressed as if she threw on some leisure shorts, a sweatshirt, and flip flops to go to the bathroom and leaves her glasses behind as she didn't think she would be up for very long just walking to the bathroom. Unfortunately she would realize all too late she should have grabbed her glasses bc she would encounter plumbing problems on her floor and have to look to other floors for a working bathroom.

Good job with the cliffs notes btw!
 

platch

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i want to know how she got the idea to go up to the roof. she had to have been told how it's easily accessible, was probably thrilled at the idea - but who could have entertained the idea to her?
 

Nickfalzone

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I agree with her trying to use the bathroom on the 14th floor bc 4th floor was having bathroom issues. The plumbing on the upper floors is considerably better and has better pressure than the first couple of floors.

In the video it seems like she is trying to see if someone is doing something in that corner bathroom. Who knows what. But she is dressed as if she threw on some leisure shorts, a sweatshirt, and flip flops to go to the bathroom and leaves her glasses behind as she didn't think she would be up for very long just walking to the bathroom. Unfortunately she would realize all too late she should have grabbed her glasses bc she would encounter plumbing problems on her floor and have to look to other floors for a working bathroom.

Good job with the cliffs notes btw!

It is possible that she hit all those floors down the middle because the bathroom on 14 turned out to be in use & she figured she would stop on each of these floors and peek out towards the bathroom to see if it was available. Being nearsighted myself, the shapes at a distance are out of focus, but you can still make out general light/dark and things such as whether a door is open or closed. Without her glasses, she still may have been able to generally make out from the elevator to see if the bathroom 20 feet away was open. I have another theory on the elevator i'll throw out here. She initially pushed the buttons for the reason I gave above, then she did so again for the very same reason - EXCEPT she was out of the elevator this time. She was out of the elevator off to the side because she was paranoid that someone was watching her in the elevator on the camera and preventing the elevator from closing. She seemed genuinely disturbed when the elevator did not initially close, and then subsequently "tested" the elevator because she didn't understand why it stayed open, thinking that someone was playing games with her. This theory is of course based on the premise that she did not know she hit the elevator-open button at the buttom, but rather pressed that accidentally or in error (thought it was close).
 
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