Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by gitana1, Mar 2, 2013.

?

Why did Elisa die?

  1. Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    162 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    46 vote(s)
    13.5%
  3. Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    86 vote(s)
    25.1%
  4. Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    7 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    5 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Unsure/Do not know

    36 vote(s)
    10.5%
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  1. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Trust me I don't use my intuition. Nor do I take the coroners rule that the medication was insufficient bc if you actually look at the report you can SEE that they did find sufficient enough amounts to test.

    This is the point - the coroner's thematic assertions don't match the data gathered by the techs. They don't correlate. To say you don't have sufficient blood samples in the report , but then have a tox test with only 1 variable noted as quantity not sufficient while all other levels were accounted for is contradictory. Obviously they did have enough blood to obtain the samples.

    I'm bipolar 2. Been to treatment with other Bipolar patience within the VASt spectrum. Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about, even in the face of ppl who have tirelessly told you they suffer from it and understand it more than yourself.
     


  2. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    The coroner was lazy and just chalked it all up to mental illness. He didn't get the Rape/nail kit completed.

    I'm aware they have plenty of cases going on, but I hope Interpol and the FBI rape the LASD for this.

    5 months worth of tests and waiting and this?!

    What a joke!
     
  3. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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  4. findinganatta

    findinganatta New Member

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    The primary reason for The Cecil's image as a 'murder hotel' is the fact that two serial killers happened to stay there (neither of which committed murders there, to my knowledge), a woman was murdered there, and someone committed suicide which inadvertently resulted in the death of a bystander. And while those events make The Cecil a historically spooky place, they all happened decades ago and don't have any practical implications for Elisa's death, in my opinion.

    If Elisa was murdered, it is unlikely that her murder would have any connection to the history of The Cecil. Instead, it would be happenstance, and related to the fact that it is a dumpy hotel with some skid row clientele. It's not impossible, but it requires a lot of speculation to draw a meaningful connection between these various events. Out of all the old, dumpy hotels out there, there are bound to be some with a history of murder. In NYC, for instance, there are a couple of old hotels with multiple murder histories that are worse that The Cecil's. So outside of selling tabloidy headlines, I don't see any practical meaning in focusing on the "murder hotel" mythos as being relevant to Elisa, just as there is no practical meaning in connecting the 'Pigeon Lady's death with Richard Ramirez. Murders in general are just more likely to happen in bad areas... that is the biggest connection I can make to The Cecil's history and Elisa's possible murder.
     
  5. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    I will say Virginia Woolf did drown herself and wasnt she bipolar? I'll research into this.
     
  6. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Ok my issue is, IF Elisa Drowned herself, how could do so?

    She would either faint/lose consciousness when in the water due to a sudden medical emergency like cardiac arrest, hypothermia, or due to inebriation. The report to me seemed to mention that one area of her heart had been "obliterated" - perhaps this could give us insight?

    She'd have to hold her breath until losing consciousness and subsequently drowning (which seems more like suicide IMO)

    I have discovered that after putrification the foam-froth in the airways becomes more reddish-brown in color and becomes more gaseous as decay advances, but this isn't necessarily indicative of ante or post mortem drowning :(

    I really wish her ears would have been looked at closer, but perhaps there wasn't a viable sample?

    I'm sure her fingernails were practically slipping off at the pint they got the nail kit in. Who knows if it was ever worth ordering if her nails were soft and masecated?
     
  7. findinganatta

    findinganatta New Member

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    If she died of accidental drowning, I suspect it was because she got into the tank (for reasons we cannot possibly attempt to guess) and then could not physically get out due to not being able to pull herself out of the hatch. Getting in might have seemed easy, but she may have underestimated the difficulty of pulling herself out. Then the height or temp of the water could have lead to her demise within hours or days, depending on her mental state and swimming abilities.

    And of course intentional suicide is a possibility, although it seems less likely to me.
     
  8. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    The common names for the meds she had prescribed were Effexor, Seroquel, Wellbutrin, and Lamactil.
     
  9. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Thing is the report said she died of "Rapid" Drowning. That's what gets me.
     
  10. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

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    The water in Southern California is very hard, and has all kinds of particulates in it. There is a reason people drink bottled water in CA. Having seen what settles out in a glass of water from the tap, sandy particulates in a water tank, even on a roof, doesn't seem odd to me.

    That being said, how could they NOT compare the sludge to the particulates in the clothing? I would think they would have to.
     
  11. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    I was prescribed Seroquel once (antipsychotic for bipolar) and wow did it sedate me out of mania. It was prescribed at nighttime to help me sleep as it usually is prescribed for bipolar people to reduce mania and induce sleep.

    My bipolar brother took Effexor and it made him a zombie. He said it made him feel like his brain was shaking in his head.

    Some of these are also anti convulsants. I wonder if she took a Dexedrine with all of these anti convulsants if it would trigger a panic attack or seizure of sorts? (problem is the one unprescribed med that was not detected in her system was Dexedrine! Traces of her other meds were found.

    (It happened to me once! Seizure caused by mixing anticonvulsants and Dexedrine/adderrall! But then again I'm assuming if she died of a seizure her hands would be clenched and she would be in the crouched position when they found her. Who knows.)
     
  12. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    I would think they would compare it too, but they didn't... :(
     
  13. Conductor71

    Conductor71 New Member

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    This is just the problem...in a case like this, a diagnosis of accidental is based on exclusion of evidence for suicide or homicide. It all depends on how much or little investigation LE conducted. The report contains the coroner's investigator report that recounts the death investigation evidence from police. EL's report is so brief it is nearly absurd. It consists of two short paragraphs each describing in 1-3 sentences how the body was found and the tank.

    This is what it appears the Coroner goes on other than evidence from autopsy in determining manner of death. EL's report is so brief it is nearly absurd. It consists of two short paragraphs each describing in 1-3 sentences how the body was found and the tank. This is where they mention the tank lid but make no observation on the presence of a ladder. How did she manage to get in the tank? The detective who responded to the scene said "I guess she climbed in"?!? No mention of the dog brain fart. BTW, our expert here on SAR dogs was just as adamant that something was very wrong with the search effort because the dog should have detected something as our mental health experts were on psychosis.


    I don't think we can blame the coroner here because they can only go with what LE shares. I think the report is telling. In the report, the coroner's liaison to LE states: Detective Tennelle gave me the following limited information.

    There was essentially no more info on that report. The only evidence shared was the video and the only witness LE's sister.

    Contrast this with the much more comprehensive autopsy of Whitney Houston with a 3 page investigative report an test results for same ones they opted not to order for EL plus a few. Really were all the extra tests warranted given the empty pill bottles found in her room? It is both sobering and appalling that a person's life is assigned varying values based on celebrity.

    Yes, the 5 month delay is both misleading and insulting to our intelligence. it gave the impression they were hard at work on investigating when little was done beyond one week of identifying body. Ugh. I would like to be wrong, but I highly doubt the LE's report has much more info in it than what what was shared with us or the coroner's investigator.
     
  14. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Good point! You're right it was stated that LE did give LIMITED information. WTH...?!

    Yeah the evidence collected seemed shoddy. Who was in charge of collecting the water/fingerprints/etc on scene?

    Argh. Oh well.
     
  15. BlueShoe

    BlueShoe Well-Known Member

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    Although the coroner's report does not help much with this, I still wonder what happened to her cell phone. I remember the police did not want to talk about it. Why? I think her cell phone is missing and that could be the reason. Usually, you carry your cell phone if you want to be aware of time. Cell phone missing? You carry your watch. Going to the bathroom, you usually don't wear a watch. You wear a watch when you want to meet someone or when you need to be somewhere at a specific time. So, why was Elisa wearing a watch but not carrying a cell phone?
     
  16. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Elisa mentioned on her Tumblr that during her trip she lost her phone. I believe it was before she got to the Cecil, but it is to be noted that LE said she got into LA on the 26th (although I believe her post stating she lost her phone in SanDiego was around January 27!)

    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/tagged/life

    This is her full RSS feed better organized for you to peruse and find any info about her phone. TY!

    (note that some info on her RSS is tagged to her by friends so make sure to check source if anything seems "off")
     
  17. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    I wanted to post this here as a human reminder of what an intelligent and vibrant young woman Elisa was and how she wanted so much to give her best to this world:

    " 84
    Thank you to the wonderful tumblrs I follow and that never fail to deliver an endless stream of inspiration and awesomeness. This is the longest letter so sorry in advance for taking up your dash.
    I can safely say and with absolute certitude that I found myself again. I lost myself at 17 and after 4 years of pain, loneliness, directionless wandering, I am me again. I feel my heart and brain working together again and for the last 4 years they were working against each other that drove me to insanity. But I’m not angry or bitter anymore. I am a manic depressive and I would not press the button to take it all away. At 21 years young, I understand things only a lifetime will teach you and I know that this is the most rarest thing of all. Possibly the most noblest pursuit next to love.
    I have a lot of thanks to give and nothing was possible without the internet. Everything I have come across, has happened to me, that I’ve learned read/seen/smelt/touched/felt and stood in the presence of in awestruck, I owe every second that you existed before me.
    Currently I follow about 700+ tumblrs which is insane trying to keep up.
    To my parents for buying me my OWN computer when I started high school. To having an older sister that came before me. To my grandpa for caring for me from my birth and making me his favourite and that I was with him the last 24 hours before he died. To my ancestors, I will live the rest of my conscious seconds in your honour to make the world a better place and make judgments more aware.
    To my best friend who I’ve known since kindergarten, who has been my anchor that isn’t blood related, who has never deserted me, whose death I will mourn as both a brother and a sister. *by default I need to include Byron + Gavin
    To every person I had a connection with via school (especially my teachers ughhhh even the **** ones looking at you piano teacher) and outside of school IRL, you all exposed me to something that I didn’t understand, letting it sit in my brain knowing that one day it will all come together and make sense.
    To technology and the internet. To p2p, blogs, social media. To FAD and fashion file which opened the world of fashion and, in turn, the rest of the society to me. To my love of reading and colours that made me the giant fangirl I am of comics, satire and Harry Potter, which in turn led me to tumblr.
    And to think I once thought tumblr was silly. Oh me from the past.
    Enough mushy cheesy stuff. Let’s get to some promo-4-promo WHICH I HAVE DONE ONLY ONCE BEFORE SO IF YOU ASK ME YOU WILL BE MET WITH REJECTION IN THE FORM OF SILENCE OR A SNARKY REMARK. Also don’t ask me to ‘check out your blog’ because if I haven’t encountered it before, I most certainly will not click on your link now.
    talkingtokafka I hope you return soon! You were the reason I started a tumblr =) You may never know how much I owe you. You are the only one in my books who is allowed to use the word ‘curate’ (well also vineetkaur and nevver)
    The kickass Hilary of hilside and Ferry of lifeonsundays. The first two people who taught me the power of anonymity and human connection.
    To Mandy of rememo for some of my favourite quotes and knowing what true wisdom is and talking about life/books/movies/fashion/feminism anything and everything with me.
    canadian problems for the lulz and making you all wish you were Canadian
    To Sophie & Jialin you saved my life without evening having to give a real hug. Robert.
    To Joy ofstrangersensibilities for that one email and two cups of coffee. To Isabel of hipstersmusings & Danielle of final fashion. Darling OliverTo the 4 boys of The Buried Life. To the girls and quotes of larmoyante
    To the Harry Potter, Doctor Who & Sherlock fandom. I would include Supernatural but I just…I can’t. I can’t inhuman/whale/velociraptor/pterodacty noises j;kakjsdl;ajsl; djlwjhenwoiuelajsh;d;ljm;m
    To oppobre and woluf, you two should actually be much closer to the top but I’m sorry my psychosis and patriotism got in the way. Blame America.
    atphotographystudio Buddha says if you don’t make a choice one will be made for you.
    alec shao of likeafieldmouse and ughhh can’t remember right now but you the lonely boy from Saudi Arabia I will put your tumblr here once I recover from this brainfart for your hearts. Together you are the Doctor.
    lylaandblu thank you for those 3 red envelopes. I am a fighter.
    To all the anonymous greyfaces for your bravery and the reminder you are never alone. Thank you for listening, thank you so much for writing, thank you so much for reminding me of hope with your words. To all of my followers, I suppose you are all greyfaces so by default, the same goes for all 2k+ of you.Ava you are the epitome of this description.
    Celine of ellephanta (behind Letters to Dead People) Yeewon of girlsack, thank you for answering so candidly.
    my best to 680mL, iamyourlung, 0000 + theotherway who runs the kid’s a looker and heart in a cage for your honesty
    vineetkaur for all things beautifully designed.
    To Ji of luxirare for food/fashion/design and for never sacrificing quality for quantity
    To Auntie M, s wolf and Alex for their expert wielding of wit and criticism
    To Susie Bubble for being the greatest fashion blogger OF ALL TIME
    dead fleurette, gensdumonde, halcyon, lapindelune/dansedelune (also behind la mariniere), theepitomeofquiet + saudade for stylish inspiration and the lovely ladies in pantalons at wearing the pants
    moldavia, cotonblanc, isoe, foudre, musingsinfemininity + bienenkiste you know why
    interwar for reminding me how fascinated I was about WWII when I was younger and your tags. margutska please pleeeeaaaase post more
    thehungryarchitect, chasingsilhouettes, ruineshumaines, takeovertime, rcruzniemiec, lionskeleton, ephemeralasting for your vision
    infographics, photoshop, charts, RSS feeds, pi, pythagoras’ theorem, sine curve, the derivative, the limit, e = mc squared, y = mx + b, f= ma, equilibrium, evolution (Darwin’s beard), if you were not just vague inanimate ideas I would totally marry the f*ck out of you (and maybe all the 10K notes)
    and finally the greatest tumblr of ALL TIME nevver. Peteski you will and are doing great things.
    And of course there is more and I’m sorry that my memory is fuzzy. I have tried to put you in the order of your influence, the bigger impact your existence has had on me, the closer to the top (key word I TRIED I mean there a lot is debatable). As a general rule, whatever I end up posting and who I reblog from is definitely worth a look.
    If any of you deactivate or NOT leave your new URL I might lose my ****.
    My greatest wish is that one day I will meet you, even for the briefest of moments IRL.
    So merci to everyone who continue to prove how awesome the world is on tumblr. Nouvelle-nouveau wouldn’t be possible without you guys. I wouldn’t have been able to conquer depression without you. I would be able to live without you.
    I dedicate this to all of you, humanity and the universe and to anyone who has ever felt lonely so that means every.single.one.of.you.
    Following is a list of insane asks. I’m holding an AMA for ONE DAY ONLY SO CALL NOW IN THE NEXT 20 MINUTES AND RECEIVE A BONUS ANSWER ABSOLUTELY FREE. I also have a formspring.
    Best of luck and may the odds be ever in your favour,
    Me
    PS// Let the wild rumpus begin
    Take chances, make mistakes, get messy - Ms. Frizzle (aka the best teacher OF ALL TIME)"

    RIP Elisa. We will keep you in our thoughts/prayers as well as your family. What a tragedy to lose a precious soul like you.
     
  18. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    I think this is her post in her feed (sometime between Christmas and right after New Years) referring to when she lost HER phone (not to be confused with her Canadian FRIENDS phone she borrowed and lost in SD!):

    "Unfortunately my cellphone is ‘misplaced’

    Life tip #1820

    Never EVER work in a shoe store and especially if it’s ladies shoes.

    Run far far far away and hope you never need to stoop so low you have to sell shoes.

    Men’s shoes are OK. "

    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/tagged/life

    -----------------------------------------------------

    (The *'s are my indication. -2hip)

    "I have a jumble of emotions and it’s hard to calm myself down

    most likely it’s due to

    sleep is absolutely crap; only 5-6 hours at most and then I wake up and catch maybe another 2-3 so interrupted at best
    working retail and the hell of having to put up with people’s crap
    ****losing things****
    ****communication and technology fallacies****
    Above all,

    is feeling really alone and lonely

    Not an uncommon feeling but I’m not taking it very well

    perhaps the breakup is finally manifesting itself and it’s settled into reality that I am alone once again

    I wish I had the patience to settle down and just read a book. I mean I bought so many from Toronto….."
     
  19. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    Could someone she worked with at the shoe/retail store or a patron have stolen her phone? (side note: Is there a foot fetish involved here on part of potential suspect?)
     
  20. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

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    So after he gets access to her phone and info, he could have created a false persona based on all her interests he found out (the elusive internet boy with the wrist tattoo):

    http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40825008672/more-so-the-boy-i-am-interested-in-he

    Details about a possible romantic interest and a wrist tattoo:

    "So the boy I am interested in, *he recently got a tattoo*

    *and it was on his left wrist*

    WHICH coincidentally was the one place I contemplated for a tattoo of my own (that and the back of my neck but then how am I going to be able to sleep?)

    COINCIDENTALLY I had written HUBRIS the day earlier and traces were still there

    Naturally *I have no idea the full significance of the tattoo but I kinda have the idea behind it I think*?

    Just….sigh damnit you boy thing of a person

    Why does learning more about you make me like you more….."

    -------------------------

    I think she was catfished to meet her murderers alias in CA:

    I believe once he got access to Elisa's phone/info, he created a fake persona to manipulate her. This persona could have been the "boy with the tattoo on his left wrist" that she was interested in.

    She showed up to CA to meet this boy to no avail. The suspect watched everywhere she went to meet the boy - and watched and stalked as she repeatedly couldn't find the boy.

    All the way up to the Cecil where he decidedly stayed in a room near her.

    The night of her disappearance I think she had realized that the suspect had been in other locations during her trip. I believe she had an idea he was watching her on the 4th floor, so she went up the stairs to the 14th floor to see if he would follow her up there.

    Sure enough, he used the alternate stairwell and Elisa realized he had also followed her up to the 14th floor. Now she knew she was being stalked. She peered out of the elevator and sure enough it was the guy that was seemingly following her the whole trip.

    She jumps out of the elevator and jumps back in and cowers in the corner in a paranoid state. She then gets out of the elevator again and seems to be telling the suspect that she is aware he has been (she makes a circular traveling motion with her hand) "all around the place" and she counted the 4 places she swore she saw him.

    I fear at this point, with he being confronted and called out, he told her to get away from the elevator forceably by gun point. She put her hands behind her head and walked out of the cameras view. Then She decided to hold down the elevator button from the hallway to keep the door open even When out of the range of the camera.

    I believe suspect was arguing with her to let go of the button. When she digressed and let go of the button (from out of camera view), the door closed and suspect was able to walk past the door and apprehend her.

    She KNEW if she got out of that elevator he would apprehend her. She was doing everything possible to stay in there.

    IMO.
     
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