Elisa Lam - What Happened?

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by gitana1, Mar 2, 2013.

?

Why did Elisa die?

  1. Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    162 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    46 vote(s)
    13.5%
  3. Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    86 vote(s)
    25.1%
  4. Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    7 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    5 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Unsure/Do not know

    36 vote(s)
    10.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Conductor71

    Conductor71 New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The biggest mistake that police departments make according to researchers is assuming that a dead body in water is just an accidental drowning.

    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=9028337

    Not that I am saying that EL's case is homicide, but given the bizarre circumstances; I am appalled at how very little investigation seems to have gone on.

    Up to 20% of drownings ruled as accidental are actually homicides because LE do not even bother to see it as a potential crime scene because they assume water deaths, in absence of obvious trauma, are accidents. That is 7,000 people a year!

    They note how bodies are immediately removed from water. In EL's case, they took photos, but I would think that they could have taken water and sediment samples to check for trace evidence. I cannot believe they did not test the particulate in her clothes even just to make the case for their ruling stronger. No fingerprints taken, no search for a ladder, I don't think it was ever treated as a crime scene. In all the video footage and photos of LAFD on the roof, I did not see any sort of tape demarking the scene.

    This article points out that most LE agencies have fire/arson specialists, and people trained in traffic fatalities, but no specialty for water deaths, and it really does seem to require extra training. Sad that this is not a priority. It also skews stats, so it looks like there are very few homicides involving water and that just reinforces LE's dismissal of drownings as accident.
     


  2. LittleWing

    LittleWing New Member

    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Goodness me.

    I'm also on the fence about the circumstances of Elisa's passing...I can see validity to most possibilities...

    But then.....

    I find it interesting that suicide was ruled out. Her sister claimed Elsa had no suicidal ideations, but people serious about suicide know not to reveal their intentions to the closest to them who might stop them. Other than it being a pretty awful and unusual way to kill oneself (by drowning), I wonder was there any other evidence or non evidence (lol) to prove without a doubt that it wasn't suicide....?

    Even if no note was found, that's not unheard of. In addition, as I've mentioned before...maybe she wanted to do it in a way that would make it appear an accident to cause less suffering to her family? I know it's a long shot but there you are.

    As suspected the autopsy report has left even more questions than answers.

    I read a comment on YouTube someone made about having the police report, and that anyone can obtain it citing the freedom of information act. So maybe this is our next step.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  3. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hm good idea! We should Defo look into getting the police report.
     
  4. findinganatta

    findinganatta New Member

    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This has been discussed... I don't remember who with, but I think I talked about it with Conductor. I believe someone already may have established how to go about ordering it. If not, I might be able to later this week when my schedule lightens up.

    As fascinating and informative as the autopsy report is (and it definitely answered a few long-pondered questions), I think the police report would have a lot more of the details we've discussed in these threads. It should be detailed enough to serve as a future reference in case the investigation were ever reopened... at least in theory.
     
  5. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48,725
    Likes Received:
    187,851
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh yeah! That's right.
     
  6. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Speaking of strange COD rulings, Rebecca Zahau's family in San Diego is launching a wrongful death lawsuit today to look into her death not being a suicide, but a homicide. hm. (fake german accent) "Intervesting". Another autopsy is now being ordered.

    I feel honestly like Elisa's family should do the same thing... The accidental death ruling has no direct and obvious evidence to back it.
     
  7. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

    Messages:
    5,230
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I do want to apologize for using the term 'garbage' upthread; I think it's neither a civil nor a charitable way of expressing what I wanted to say. I do stand by the gist of what I wrote, though. I think part of the problem is that there are inherent difficulties in proving a death like Elisa's as an accident.

    In such a case it would be much easier to prove homicide, given that one would expect some trauma or trace, were they to exist. Likewise with suicide, were it not that she died of drowning and left no note. (I do not think it significant that those who know her say that it would have been unexpected.) But how does one 'prove' an accident without witnesses or some telltale sign on the body or scene? In this case, LE and the coroner likely called it an accident because there was nothing to suggest a murder or a suicide. Moreover, there are many reasons why a murder would be incredibly implausible and virtually impracticable. There was no note, so it is hard to justify calling her death a suicide (though it is more plausible than homicide) -- just as with someone driving off of a cliff: was it intentional or accidental? Who could tell?

    So, 'proving' an accident is like proving a negative: it can't really be done without some sort of direct evidence. Because of this difficulty, the standard for the determination becomes what is most plausible and least contradicted or disputed by the collected evidence. As there was no evidence of murder or suicide, it is the best possible explanation. With all of the evidence of her mental state (not just that night, but as has been discussed before, the odd changes in her trip itinerary), it becomes the most plausible explanation that can be supported by the evidence.

    I agree, this is neither a clean or satisfying explanation for most people, but this is how the experts come to their conclusions, and I haven't seen anything to suggest a better, more plausible explanation that is consistent with the facts in evidence. I don't think there is anything else that I can add to this discussion other than to send my prayers to those who love her, as I'm sure we can all agree this case is totally tragic.
     
  8. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,200
    Likes Received:
    27,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think many of us knew that it was unlikely the outcome of the final report would satisfy some people. But I do not believe there is any cover-up or attempt to write her death off as an accident in order to avoid investigating further. To me, the actions on the elevator video appeared to be a woman in the midst of some sort of a mental crisis. JMO
     
  9. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Uh huh. Read the report then come back and talk please.
     
  10. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

    Messages:
    4,289
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Sadly, I do think that this was just an attempt to slap a COD on this case, so they could close it, only because I have seen it so many times. Unless there is family presence right from the start, pushing to get information, asking the public for help, offering rewards for anything anyone may have seen, so many of these cases get "closed" or cold cased as quickly as possible. I watched it happen when a friend was murdered. As soon as we gave up, so did LE-they decided that a cousin who had died in a car accident shortly after the murder had done it, so cased closed. It didn't matter that he was nowhere in the vicinity at the time.

    I think the coroner probably did the best they could with the information given. I also don't think the case was investigated properly from the start.
     
  11. Ghostwheel

    Ghostwheel Pyrrhonist

    Messages:
    4,289
    Likes Received:
    173
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Funny you should mention that. I was thinking about the same thing.
     
  12. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You might be interested in Tina Haong's case from Newport Beach CA. She was found less than a month after Elisa disappeared. 3 burning white candles were reported found at the scene of her murder. Sounds like Occult as well. The death of Tina was not common for the neighborhood and it was staged. (I think Elisa and Tina were killed by the same person/people moo)
     
  13. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Reading the clothing/misc inventory list, it strikes me as strange that all of this was found off her person. Is it common to clothing to peel away from a dead body like this? According to the autopsy, the body was mostly intact and just suffered from some several bloating and marbling. So the fact that all her clothes were off doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's not like she was in the ocean and there was force from the waves. Plus, hooded sweatshirts just due to their design typically require some work to take off. It just seems more likely to me that the clothes/watch/keycard were taken off Elisa elsewhere. That specifically she was undressed, her clothes and personal items were thrown into a bag somewhere, and the perp was planning to ditch her body in a place different from the cistern - but due to the relatively short-notice police investigation, the perp changed plans, threw her body and all her personal items into a bag, then dumped it into the cistern. On a side note, I'd like to know if the hotel logs keycard access, and what the times were that she last entered/exited her room.
     
  14. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: the white powder in the clothing - even without analyzing the samples, couldn't investigators simply throw in a small towel or something into the cistern and come back in a few days to see if it collected similar sediment-like particles? The white flecks both on her clothing (and also her shoes?) seems strange to me.
     
  15. BlueShoe

    BlueShoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Trophy Points:
    93
    It is also strange that they did not analyze the white flakes to determine what they were. Aside from the fact that they were on her body, don't some people drink that water? Wouldn't you want to know if hotel guests were being exposed to some dangerous sediments? If you can't identify what is in your water, wouldn't you want to test it? What an odd situation.
     
  16. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good point. I'm sure any record/sample of the water from that day would have helped the patrons who drank it in their lawsuit against the Cecil. IMO.
     
  17. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then again, maybe water samples were taken after her body was found as evidence for the patrons lawsuits against the Cecil. I know they also tested the water. Maybe the city has these samples still that can be used in Elisa's case - if they are allowed.
     
  18. bessie

    bessie Verified Insider

    Messages:
    31,766
    Likes Received:
    1,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please do not copy and paste from other websites. Only MSM, and then only 10% with a link. Anything else can be briefly paraphrased with a link provided (if site is approved) so others can read for themselves.

    Thanks.
     
  19. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Has anyone pursued getting a copy of the police report?
     
  20. 2Hip2BSquare

    2Hip2BSquare Former Member

    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe conductor71 sent in the written request and other necessary resources to obtain the report. Might want to PM her :)

    I haven't gotten anything from her yet so I don't think she has received it yet.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice