Elizabeth Johnson's Court Hearings & Charges

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I wonder how Logan is taking this news.
My heartfelt prayers to Logan, Gabriel and their family.
 
It's been driving me NUTS knowing EJ had this hearing yesterday and this is the first chance I've had to check in and see what happened! Off to catch up .......
 
noopy said:
k... thx for the insights first of all... question tho: if a sane person wanted to fake insanity, wouldn't they just look at each question, then answer the opposite or answer anything BUT what they know is right? that's what i would do. why would they want to be honest if they were trying to FAKE it?? or are these tests so good they know if you are answering incorrectly for real or fake? :waitasec:
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The MMPI and other tests have a bunch of internal consistancy scales. Questions are asked in different forms to see if the person will give the same answer each time and several questions are indicators of more subtle forms of thought disorders. Unless the person knew exactly how the test was scaled, it's pretty much impossible to fake something consistantly.
 
My first thoughts were.... well, nevermind.

Didn't i read that she is in general popultion? so, she's not locked in a cell by herself, 23 hours a day. IF im remembering what i read right, lol, it could even be that she is constantly being hounded/taunted by the other inmates. and maybe the "attack" on 2 other inmates, was not nessacarily her just going off. they very well could have prevoked her. or started something, and 2 mouths against one, plus any other "witnesses", would make her guilty, KWIM??(also if she was in solitary, she would not have been able to get to other inmates)

sooo, in my confuseing babble above, lol, maybe general population is not whats best for her. Not that i really care. BUT I AM NOT HER JUDGE/JURY. and so I have to think fairly. *sigh* and about her rights, yada yada. constant nit picking may be what is makeing her incompotent?? think about it. If you have kids, when they constantly keep on with mama mama mama mama, for hours, u sometimes feel as if you could lose your mind a little, especially if you don't have much other human interactions.

just throwing that out there, If im wrong about the general poplation, i just wasted time, and its ok, lol, but this is something recent., (with her previous mental health deteriating) so im thinking that when she gets stable, she will be where she was before, and still not say where Gabe is. but at least she will be able to stand trial. I hope she does come to her senses though.
 
Ives said:
My first thoughts were.... well, nevermind.

Didn't i read that she is in general popultion? so, she's not locked in a cell by herself, 23 hours a day. IF im remembering what i read right, lol, it could even be that she is constantly being hounded/taunted by the other inmates. and maybe the "attack" on 2 other inmates, was not nessacarily her just going off. they very well could have prevoked her. or started something, and 2 mouths against one, plus any other "witnesses", would make her guilty, KWIM??(also if she was in solitary, she would not have been able to get to other inmates)

sooo, in my confuseing babble above, lol, maybe general population is not whats best for her. Not that i really care. BUT I AM NOT HER JUDGE/JURY. and so I have to think fairly. *sigh* and about her rights, yada yada. constant nit picking may be what is makeing her incompotent?? think about it. If you have kids, when they constantly keep on with mama mama mama mama, for hours, u sometimes feel as if you could lose your mind a little, especially if you don't have much other human interactions.

just throwing that out there, If im wrong about the general poplation, i just wasted time, and its ok, lol, but this is something recent., (with her previous mental health deteriating) so im thinking that when she gets stable, she will be where she was before, and still not say where Gabe is. but at least she will be able to stand trial. I hope she does come to her senses though.
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BBM. You are remembering right. I read that too, though only in the 1 article from an AZ source...cant remember off hand which one. I was thinking it was shotty reporting, because it's the only mention I've seen of her NOT being in solitary. And the episode with the other inmates, though I think they were taunting her, it was done as she was passing through like a cafeteria (she was alone, they were in their cells, she grabbed the spray off a table and sprayed them through their doors). Maybe that was during her 1 hour out of the cell.?
 
Supposedly it is "impossible" to fake incompetency. Whatever. I think I could do it. But not for 15-21 months.

certainly something to think about, and someone, already had! JMO....this from AZ...please bear with me I'm not the best yet at copy and paste. My teacher B is trying to help me....
 
I believe they will find EJ competent to stand trial some day. Hopefully it will not take too long.
 
On this "competency" issue, currently on TruTV's (formerly Court TV) show "In Session", the defendant Mark Becker was diagnosed schizophrenic before he murdered his football coach. I believe he went through the same process as EJ is going through now. They will stabilize her on medication then she will be competent to stand trial. The process will take time though. In addition, if properly medicated the exact whereabouts of Gabriel might emerge whilst in psychiatric treatment. They may have to go through a couple of different meds before they find one she responds to, but there's one out there. I am hopeful. I don't think she is feigning because she was diagnosed by two separate psychiatrists who have no reason to fudge their results, the opposite is true their reputation is on the line every time they diagnose someone for the court.
 
ok, i believe she's really incompetent to stand trial now (yes the drs have no reason to lie on her behalf), but how come she still knows that she needs to keep gabe's location a secret? how come she's competent enough to protect herself from life in prison/death penalty? she seems to be incompetent SELECTIVELY...
if she really went crazy because of what she did, then i guess even if the charges are dropped against her, justice has been done by God.
 
noopy said:
ok, i believe she's really incompetent to stand trial now (yes the drs have no reason to lie on her behalf), but how come she still knows that she needs to keep gabe's location a secret? how come she's competent enough to protect herself from life in prison/death penalty? she seems to be incompetent SELECTIVELY...
if she really went crazy because of what she did, then i guess even if the charges are dropped against her, justice has been done by God.
Click to expand...

Well, coming from your POI that he is dead, then EJ has not been truthful and is competent enough to keep his "body" secret. This doesn't make sense to me, because it would suggest she's faking the mental issues too and has fooled the psychologists. I don't believe for 1 second that she is faking that. No way. Look back at her court appearance where she pleads the 5th....when the judge is talking, she clearly loses focus and has no idea what is going on. This doesn't mean she does not have times of lucidity though. But, in her state, whether lucid or not, her story has remained the same. That's important to me. If she killed him, then I would think that her story would change between her moments of clear thinking and incompetent thinking. JMO.

From the perspective of he's still alive and was given to a couple sent by a third party that EJ knows nothing about, and Ken says she's been completely forthcoming, then it's not an issue about her competency and hiding his location. SHE DOESN'T KNOW. From what we the public have been told, she has been saying the same story, throughout her decent into incompetency. Her story has not changed because it IS what happened.

Hopefully with the right meds and therapy, she will remember many more details in all of this that will help find Gabriel, or the PI and LE will find a needle in this haystack...the little light that shines right on Gabriel's location.

All IMHO of course.
 
even tho i am on the unpopular side, i do care very much about gabe and this case, and i check on here daily to see if justice has been given to gabe and his family, and if he's been found. (in fact, this is the only case i follow or have ever followed). just because i think he's not alive doesn't mean i think everyone should just drop it and move on. ej needs to go to jail for a long time for what she's done, LE needs to find him to give the family closure and give gabe peace, sure they don't owe the public anything as long as the above 2 are done... and if he turns out OK, then i'd be over the moon with happiness.
as for ken, he doesn't know where gabe is and he doesn't know if gabe is alive because he hasn't found him yet. he may be a great PI, but if gabe is not alive, no one can find him alive.... that's his theory only. LE has their theory too, and i think they used to be on the unpopular side, not sure if that's changed.
i certainly hope I am WRONG.
 
i think she's not talking because, at her last hearing, the judge told her that her lawyer was asking her to talk cuz it's her legal obligation... (i assued she wasn't and was very against it, she later fired this PD).
i assumed she wasn't talking cuz she took the 5th at family court.
i assumed she wasn't talking cuz the family asked her heart to soften - by that i assumed it meant to assist in finding gabe and telling the truth about what happened - since gabe is not found yet, i assumed she's not talking.
i assumed she's not talking/or not helpful cuz she doesn't even want to go to her court appearances - she skipped her first one, and later only went because the judge forced her, and now she's skipping again due to her incompetency, she also was granted not to appear except for her actual trial i believe.
sure, she may have told everything to the police in secret, but then whatever she has told hasn't been true or useful because gabe is not here.
 
Thread closed due to bickering, name calling, and off topic.

I'll merge the on-topic posts from this thread with the appropriate other threads tomorrow.

BeanE
 
Please read

I've merged the incompetency hearing thread into this thread. I'll be working, as I have time, on moving psych topic posts over to Elizabeth's psych thread, and deleting off-topic posts.

In the meantime, until I get it done, please go to the psych thread to discuss psych issues, and to other appropriate threads rather than go off-topic. For example, discussions of Ken, PIs, Elizabeth talking/not talking, whether/why Elizabeth did/did not kill Gabe, and TPS, all have existing threads.

Thanks,
BeanE

ETA: To help distinguish which incompetency issues go in this thread, and which go in the psych thread, ask yourself if you are talking about a *legal* issue of competency. If it's legal, it goes here. If it's not, it goes in the psych thread.
 
06/03/2010

THE COURT FINDS the Defendant is unable to understand the nature of the proceedings and/or is unable to assist counsel in Defendant's defense, and is therefore criminally incompetent pursuant to A.R.S. § 13-4510.

THE COURT FURTHER FINDS that there is no clear and convincing evidence that the Defendant will not be restored to competency within 15 months pursuant to A.R.S. § 13-4510(C).

THE COURT FURTHER FINDS that the Defendant is incompetent to refuse treatment and should be subject to involuntary treatment pursuant to A.R.S. §§ 13-4511 and 13-4512(B).

THE COURT FURTHER FINDS that confinement is necessary for treatment and/or the Defendant is a threat to public safety.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/062010/m4256830.pdf
 
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