Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[*Lash*]

I agree, Lash.

And when the Zahaus prevail and win their case, I sincerely hope that part of the judgement is a "forever" gag order on the defendants from ever speaking publicly about Rebecca in the future. No more media junkets, TV interviews, or print interviews accusing her ever again. That would be some measure of justice, IMO. A permanent "STFU" order about Rebecca, with penalties for violating it.

IMO, Dina appears to understand these kinds of court orders, at least where her money is concerned. She very carefully avoids ever mentioning Jonah. Jonah was very shrewd to make that part of the divorce settlement, IMO.

BBM - how glorious that day WILL be!

 

[time]

I think it’s wonderful when any loving parent takes an interest in their child’s education, and especially when a parent reads with their child. No one can deny that reading with a child is a good thing, and to be encouraged.

The bigger issue, IMO, that is bugging some folks is the concept of “competitive parenting”. Parents have always bragged about their child’s accomplishments, and expressed pride and wonder in what their child can accomplish. And children thrive when the adults who love them recognize their efforts— especially when the child’s sincere efforts sometimes do not lead to instant success. That goes beyond the boisterous and ubiquitous, but empty “good job!” praise that seems to be so popular, as well as “helicopter parenting”. This is pretty much a phenomenon of middle and upper class parenting styles. There is a great book out recently (well, 2009!) that examines this phenomenon and the effect on kids as they grow:

NurtureShock: New Thinking About Children: Po Bronson, Ashley Merryman: 9780446504133: Amazon.com: Books

So, IMO, the reason all of this “Shakespeare” talk bugs some folks, is that it is more an indication of competitive parenting that reflects on the efforts of the parent, rather than the accomplishments of the child. And it bugs folks even more, because Dina has held herself out as a child psychologist, who should know better. IMO.

Dina, in her upper socioeconomic group, appears to have been very vulnerable to competitive parenting, and never seems to miss an opportunity to show how her parenting and the opportunities she provided for her child made Max “more” special than other kids. It's not about Max, the child-- it's about Dina, the parent, KWIM?

That’s why the Shakespeare stuff and Rebecca’s healthy cooking comes up over and over. Dina apparently seems to feel that Rebecca was attempting to “one up” her by preparing healthy meals for Max—that came thru to me loud and clear in the first Phoenix Magazine article. Dina even bragged that Max was the “youngest” child ever to be on the NY Stock Exchange floor in one of her writings on her websites (I’m not going to link that here, FWIW). Now, that’s fun trivia, but that bit of information is really much more about showcasing the socioeconomic opportunities of the parents, than the child, KWIM? The child is just along for the ride, and hasn’t really accomplished anything. But it does demonstrate that the parents took the child with them to lots of places, so it reinforces the image of involved, loving parent.

Part of Dina’s whole “food nazi” criticism of Rebecca is this concept of competitive parenting, IMO. It’s a way for Dina to engage in tit- for- tat retribution, and “one up” Rebecca. Rebecca was a threat to Dina (IMO) because sometimes Rebecca was another mother figure for Max, and that infuriates Dina (to this day). That’s not uncommon in a lot of divorce situations, and sadly, it seems to be the case here. I mean, who in their right mind would criticize anyone who took time to prepare healthy meals for their child?? Boggles the mind.

The really sad thing about kids caught up in competitive parenting is that the child can evolve to mirror the parent, and the parent’s secondary gain becomes the goal of the parent-child relationship. Kids as little pawns and trophies. I’m not saying that this is completely what happened here, but it appears to be part of the story. IMO.

Another example: Jonah chose to make his memorial foundation focused on something Max loved, that was a big part of Max's life. Dina chose to start a "memorial" non profit based on her false narrative that "if only" she had been able to more easily and efficiently stalk the new partner of her ex, Max would be alive. Maxie's House is all about Dina the parent, and her "needs", and not at all about Max or his safety, IMO. Maxie's House was never about Max at all, IMO. Sadly.

I want to make it clear that I'm not criticizing the Shakespeare reading, or candy drawer, or the indoor stage, or NYSE floor trip-- what I'm criticizing is the exaggerations and bragging about these as evidence of "good parenting", and then using healthy food preparation as evidence of Rebecca's "bad parenting", lol! No one ever questioned that Dina loved Max or was an attentive parent when she had her custody time. It was only when Dina began to TALK ABOUT how she interpreted her role as a parent that folks began to scratch their heads. A great example of how she is her own worst enemy, and has squandered the public sympathy that she had from the beginning. IMO.

Very good post... unfortunately, some children are groomed to make the parent look good and are not allowed to be kids or conversely are not given 'age appropriate' boundaries, choices, and expectations. Going on a vacation to Italy for a child is probably less exciting and less of a learning experience than going camping in Wisconsin. Eating healthy and not thinking that is wrong is a lifelong habit.

 

[time]

My original quote has already been altered by bourne and time:

"The standards mandate certain critical types of content for all students, including classic myths and stories from around the world, foundational U.S. documents, seminal works of American literature, and the writings of Shakespeare."

http://www.corestandards.org/resources/key-points-in-english-language-arts

I don't know why you are implying I am altering your posts for meaning because I am not. You made a clear statement below that I politely asked about because I had already searched the Common Core and couldn't find anywhere that Shakespeare is specifically required for first grade. Please do not make false accusations against me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeDee
H
Introducing children to Shakespeare is part of the Common Core so I hardly doubt reading his works passes as theatrical. Conversely, Rebecca's exotic and highly dramatic histrionic suicide effectively took all eyes away from Maxie's death.

TIA for your response and ALWAYS MOO

Interesting. Can you link to the Common Core in Grade 1 about learning Shakespeare?

 

[MyBelle]

LE had the evidence and shared it with the DA and yet no charges were brought against the people now being sued. So I don't think there is any 'hard' evidence against them.

Now she seems to be lying low. But she certainly wasn't earlier. She took a media tour and did many interviews and appearances pleading for her son's case to be reexamined. I doubt she would have done so if she had killed RZ. JMO

ITA. It is very possible that his mother has succeeded in her quest and Max's death is currently being investigated as a murder. Max deserves justice if indeed he was killed as a result of negligence or malice.

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

ITA. It is very possible that his mother has succeeded in her quest and Max's death is currently being investigated as a murder. Max deserves justice if indeed he was killed as a result of negligence or malice.

JMO

Do you think that if she had been it would have been published? If it hasn't been, I wonder why not? I sincerely hope that MS' death is reinvestigated, SDSO or Coronado or the two agencies working together (or however they did it) did not give RZ and MS justice.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[bourne]

BBM
YOU have hit the nail on the head.... This is and has always been about the star of the show. Dina is not the Star. Adam is not the Star. And the Star is the one that will be directing how this will play out on Dina and Adam's sides of this case.

BBM. Many of us read your post (before it was deleted) that the "Star" you refer in this post is NOT Jonah. So WHO is this "Star" you're referring to? Nina? XZ? Rebecca's ex? Really?

 

[MyBelle]

Do you think that if she had been it would have been published? If it hasn't been, I wonder why not? I sincerely hope that MS' death is reinvestigated, SDSO or Coronado or the two agencies working together (or however they did it) did not give RZ and MS justice.

ALWAYS MOO

LE often asks the family not to publicly speak about any ongoing criminal investigation. LE usually have a lot of compassion for dead children and their mothers and for that reason alone, I think that Max's death is being re-examined.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

LE often asks the family not to publicly speak about any ongoing criminal investigation.

Snipped for relevance.

Yes, LE often asks relevant parties, or the loved ones of a crime victim, to refrain from public comments about an ongoing criminal investigation. IN this particular case, there isn't officially a "crime" for EITHER Max's or Rebecca's deaths. Dina (and Jonah) have been completely free to talk about Max's death for 2 years, and in the past year, Dina has talked A LOT in public about Max's death. And made a lot of accusations that LE has publicly said are baseless. The person she openly accuses is dead.

LE isn't going to arrest a dead person for anything. So, using your logic, why exactly would Dina be instructed by LE to keep silent now?? And why would she comply?!

Unless Dina was under a court issued child order of protection not to speak at all publicly about the other person she has decided "must" be responsible for Max's tragic accident, IMO. That is about the only thing, other than a threat to her money, IMO, that would prevent Dina from seeking every media opportunity she could think of to accuse a dead woman, and stalk, harass, and intimidate a traumatized minor.

There is no "super- secret- zip- your- lips" investigation of Max's death. That is completely absurd, IMO. LE would announce the case reclassified, and then go about their investigation, if that were how things were progressing.

But it is VERY likely that Dina may be under a court issued order of protection to prevent her from further traumatizing, harassing, and stalking a minor. Nice behavior from someone who considers herself a child psychologist, right?

 

[K_Z]

LE usually have a lot of compassion for dead children and their mothers and for that reason alone, I think that Max's death is being re-examined.

JMO

BBM. Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean LE has no compassion for the fathers of dead children, only the mothers? Does this child's father have any relevance at all in the LE process? Or only the child's mother?

Do you mean that only when LE "feels compassion" they reopen and reclassify deaths? Do they only do this for children, not adults? Is compassion the motivation for LE investigations? Was LE NOT compassionate 2 years ago, and one year ago, when they declined to reopen Max's case, but now LE "is" compassionate? Dead children bring out compassion inmost people. But LE is not motivated by compassion alone. And that is a good thing for some victims, like murderers and drug dealers, who sometimes don't provoke a lot of compassion in others. I can't fathom what you mean by linking compassion with reopening a death investigation. How about evidence?

Is this a case, in your opinion, of the squeaky wheel getting the grease? Is someone in LE placating Dina and leading her to believe they are reinvestigating the case, when they are not?

There is one case that we can all be certain is definitely in progress. That is the civil wrongful death lawsuit filed by the Zahaus, that names Dina, Nina, and Adam responsible for Rebecca's death. This is the case that we can be sure will be officially addressed and dealt with by the legal system. A discussion about any other potential lawsuits or investigations is just rumor, innuendo, and distraction at this point in time.

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped for relevance.

Yes, LE often asks relevant parties, or the loved ones of a crime victim, to refrain from public comments about an ongoing criminal investigation. IN this particular case, there isn't officially a "crime" for EITHER Max's or Rebecca's deaths. Dina (and Jonah) have been completely free to talk about Max's death for 2 years, and in the past year, Dina has talked A LOT in public about Max's death. And made a lot of accusations that LE has publicly said are baseless. The person she openly accuses is dead.

LE isn't going to arrest a dead person for anything. So, using your logic, why exactly would Dina be instructed by LE to keep silent now?? And why would she comply?!

Unless Dina was under a court issued child order of protection not to speak at all publicly about the other person she has decided "must" be responsible for Max's tragic accident, IMO. That is about the only thing, other than a threat to her money, IMO, that would prevent Dina from seeking every media opportunity she could think of to accuse a dead woman, and stalk, harass, and intimidate a traumatized minor.

There is no "super- secret- zip- your- lips" investigation of Max's death. That is completely absurd, IMO. LE would announce the case reclassified, and then go about their investigation, if that were how things were progressing.

But it is VERY likely that Dina may be under a court issued order of protection to prevent her from further traumatizing, harassing, and stalking a minor. Nice behavior from someone who considers herself a child psychologist, right?

I think the official record has two other people present at the of Max's fall and one of them is still alive. I will continue to hold the opinion that there is currently a criminal homicide investigation into Max's death. You keep implying that Max isn't entitled to a homicide investigation.

I doubt there is a court issued "order of protection" issued against Dina at this time. She still enjoys her right to hold her opinion and to exercise her right of free speech as do we all. And LE will continue to conduct criminal investigations without sharing it publicly.

JMO

 

[Carioca]

I think the official record has two other people present at the of Max's fall and one of them is still alive. I will continue to hold the opinion that there is currently a criminal homicide investigation into Max's death. You keep implying that Max isn't entitled to a homicide investigation.
[respectfully snipped]
JMO

I have yet to hear anyone ever say Max is not entitled to a new investigation. Quite the contrary. Posters have strongly expressed ad nauseum that BOTH cases MUST be investigated, both cases reopened. Isn't that what all of us have been doing here day after day, year after year?

Reiterating K_Z's post, in order for there to be an official criminal homicide investigation into Max's death, the official findings would first need to be reclassified from accidental to undetermined. Thus this leads one to believe the criminal homicide investigation you say is currently ongoing is not being conducted by official law enforcement, rather it is being conducted privately by Dina.

For Dina and her team of investigators to proceed, she has to prove only RZ and XZ were at the residence at the time of Max's accident. AB stated that two of Max's teenage siblings were present. Investigators told her Max was planking. The objective of planking is to photograph the event. SDSO seized 3 cameras, which suspiciously and inexplicably have yet to be returned to RZ's family. AB would have zero reason to fabricate this story, thus putting her career in jeopardy.

Nonetheless, the validity and credence of any homicide investigation into Max's accident will hinge on proving beyond a reasonable doubt and providing irrefutable evidence as follows:

1. the whereabouts of Max's teenage siblings at the time in question;
2. that GS' neighbor friends who stated she flew out early that morning be officially interviewed and their statements verified;
3. that AB be officially interviewed as to the source of her information regarding her statement;
4. that the investigator be interviewed regarding his or her source of information;
5. that all media that subsequently scrubbed the information reveal who made the request and why they complied;
And last but not least:
6. solid evidence be presented as to both Jonah AND Dina's whereabouts at the time in question. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am not suggesting Dina was involved. I am only stating that a thorough and credible investigation MUST include all parties.

Revisiting a few key statements from the USA Today article dated Sep 2, 2011:

• She [Bremner] said investigators found what they described as a suicide note.
• She [Bremner] said officials explained Zahau's nudity in death by saying she routinely slept without clothing.
• Bremner said Zahau was not alone in the mansion when Max had his accident. She said that two of the child's teenage siblings were present as well and that Zahau was in the shower at the time of the accident.
• Bremner said investigators told her that the child had been conducting a trick known as "planking," or lying horizontally in unusual locations, around the staircase when he fell.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...o-Mansion-Death-Called-Suicide-Family-Objects

Link to Websleuths discussion on the planking disclosure:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188247"]What is the origin of the planking rumor? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[bourne]

I have yet to hear anyone ever say Max is not entitled to a new investigation. Quite the contrary. Posters have strongly expressed ad nauseum that BOTH cases MUST be investigated, both cases reopened. Isn't that what all of us have been doing here day after day, year after year?

Reiterating K_Z's post, in order for there to be an official criminal homicide investigation into Max's death, the official findings would first need to be reclassified from accidental to undetermined. Thus this leads one to believe the criminal homicide investigation you say is currently ongoing is not being conducted by official law enforcement, rather it is being conducted privately by Dina.

For Dina and her team of investigators to proceed, she has to prove only RZ and XZ were at the residence at the time of Max's accident. AB stated that two of Max's teenage siblings were present. Investigators told her Max was planking. The objective of planking is to photograph the event. SDSO seized 3 cameras, which suspiciously and unexplicatively have yet to be returned to RZ's family. AB would have zero reason to fabricate this story, thus putting her career in jeopardy.

Nonetheless, the validity and credence of any homicide investigation into Max's accident will hinge on proving beyond a reasonable doubt and providing irrefutable evidence as follows:

1. the whereabouts of Max's teenage siblings at the time in question;
2. that GS' neighbor friends who stated she flew out early that morning be officially interviewed and their statements verified;
3. that AB be officially interviewed as to the source of her information regarding her statement;
4. that the investigator be interviewed regarding his or her source of information;
5. that all media that subsequently scrubbed the information reveal who made the request and why they complied;
And last but not least:
6. solid evidence be presented as to both Jonah AND Dina's whereabouts at the time in question. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am not suggesting Dina was involved. I am only stating that a thorough and credible investigation MUST include all parties.

Revisiting a few key statements from the USA Today article dated Sep 2, 2011:


Link to Websleuths discussion on the planking disclosure:
What is the origin of the planking rumor? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

<modsnip> All the above you listed could all be true and yet, even if people were present, doesn't mean that Max was assaulted and/or that his death was anything more than a freak accident.

Until science proves that Max's death was a homicide, it does not matter how many people were present at the mansion during his fall.

On the other hand, for the Zahaus' wrongful death suit, we do need to know who exactly was physically at the mansion during Max's accident in order to determine whether other people such as Jonah and his teens, or even Dina herself, had witnessed Max's fall, and whether these people then conspired to act in such a way as to place blame on Rebecca and her teen sister XZ and created the false illusion aka lie using Rebecca and XZ as scapegoats in order that others (e.g., Dina and her twin Nina) would then use that pretext to murder Rebecca. This scenario needs to be proven true or untrue in court in order that ALL the truths come out and all the culprits to Rebecca's torture/murder be held responsible.

 

[MyBelle]

I have yet to hear anyone ever say Max is not entitled to a new investigation. Quite the contrary. Posters have strongly expressed ad nauseum that BOTH cases MUST be investigated, both cases reopened. Isn't that what all of us have been doing here day after day, year after year?

Reiterating K_Z's post, in order for there to be an official criminal homicide investigation into Max's death, the official findings would first need to be reclassified from accidental to undetermined. Thus this leads one to believe the criminal homicide investigation you say is currently ongoing is not being conducted by official law enforcement, rather it is being conducted privately by Dina.

For Dina and her team of investigators to proceed, she has to prove only RZ and XZ were at the residence at the time of Max's accident. AB stated that two of Max's teenage siblings were present. Investigators told her Max was planking. The objective of planking is to photograph the event. SDSO seized 3 cameras, which suspiciously and inexplicably have yet to be returned to RZ's family. AB would have zero reason to fabricate this story, thus putting her career in jeopardy.

Nonetheless, the validity and credence of any homicide investigation into Max's accident will hinge on proving beyond a reasonable doubt and providing irrefutable evidence as follows:

1. the whereabouts of Max's teenage siblings at the time in question;
2. that GS' neighbor friends who stated she flew out early that morning be officially interviewed and their statements verified;
3. that AB be officially interviewed as to the source of her information regarding her statement;
4. that the investigator be interviewed regarding his or her source of information;
5. that all media that subsequently scrubbed the information reveal who made the request and why they complied;
And last but not least:
6. solid evidence be presented as to both Jonah AND Dina's whereabouts at the time in question. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am not suggesting Dina was involved. I am only stating that a thorough and credible investigation MUST include all parties.

Revisiting a few key statements from the USA Today article dated Sep 2, 2011:


Link to Websleuths discussion on the planking disclosure:
What is the origin of the planking rumor? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I'm sorry but I'm not aware of any statute that requires an ME's report must first be changed to reflect a homicide before a criminal homicide investigation can take place. Please post a link. Thanks.

The statements made to first responders are documented in the sworn reports given to the ME. According to those reports, RZ and her sister were the only people present when Max's fall took place.

JMO