Evidence #2

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Procedure says that they wait until LE arrives and they can turn the scene over to him. LE then usually makes a record of all paramedics at the scene- as potiential witnesses.

Would this info have been noted in any warrants, etc. In other words, if the paramedics arrived before the first officer, would we have seen that noted somewhere by now?

 

[mysteriew]

Remember though Moxie, when we first talked about the bathroom evidence awhile back, we have no way of knowing IF the swabbing from the bathroom was in fact blood, or not. Who knows. If it was blood, it could easily have come from the perp somehow...in walking in the bathroom, for any # of reasons, ie., to clean up, etc.

I would think that it would be standard procedure in a murder for LE to take a swab of any sink in the household. Was the kitchen sink swabbed (I can't remember)?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I would think that it would be standard procedure in a murder for LE to take a swab of any sink in the household. Was the kitchen sink swabbed (I can't remember)?

If I'm remembering correctly, a swab was done of the bathroom floor.

I thought a swab was done on something specific, not just to test a general area? I can never keep this all straight.

 

[terminatrixator]

I believe Paramedics have to wait for police to arrive before going in on calls like this one. Does anyone know how this works. I thought this is something I have heard in the past, that the police must go in first BEFORE the paramedics because of the nature of the crime. Usually when someone in our family called the paramedics, though the paramedics arrived first, they basically wait until the squad arrives and the police enter the residence first.

Anyone know the rules of this?

Following is an article talking about Preservation of crime scenes.

http://www.cji.net/CJI/CenterInfo/fscec/Preservation-2.htm

This following link is not going to help much right now, but can be useful in other cases.

INVESTIGATION OF THE VIOLENT CRIME EXEMPLAR

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/315/315lect10.htm

Perhaps someone can put this link elsewhere on WS that can be referred to in other cases.

 

[mysteriew]

Would this info have been noted in any warrants, etc. In other words, if the paramedics arrived before the first officer, would we have seen that noted somewhere by now?

Probably would be in the investigative reports but not the warrants. But how about the 911 call? Was this reported as a shooting there? If so, procedure says that LE clears the scene before the paramedics come in. Usually LE will try to arrive first.
It could very well be that Raven is the one who said she was in a kneeling postion and that he turned her on her back to help her before he called police. I would think her position would be one of the questions that LE would ask right off the bat. It would also be logical if you came upon a non-responsive person in a kneeling position- that you would turn them, to where you could better examine them.

 

[terminatrixator]

So far, all I can find is in cases of known Domestic Violence Paramedics are not allowed to enter the scene until Police arrive. I wish I knew more, which will help in figuring this out.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

In the 911 call, it was reported as a possible gunshot. And after looking at the search warrant, I'm 95% convinced that the officer was on the scene first, and it states that he found Janet on her back. I'll try to find a linkable copy shortly.

I agree that Raven could have turned her over to try to save her. But something's not meshing. Either she wasn't on her knees or Raven turned her over. If Raven turned her over, how did he miss the fact that it was not a gunshot but multiple stabbings, and even if he did miss it, why did he tell the officer that his wife was hurt when he must have known that she was dead? Unless she had died between the time that he found her and the time that LE arrived.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Ok, so the one FACT we have is this - Investigator Early writes in his narrative for the search warrant the the victim was on her back.

That said, IF Janet was "found" in a kneeling position - then it must have been BEFORE the Investigator entered the room. AND, if LE comes in prior to paramedics, then, we can surmise that it must have been Raven himself that reported that Janet was in a kneeling position - and then, as mysteriew says, Raven must have moved the body, in order for Janet to have then been on her back.

 

[chicoliving]

According to the report released by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Chapel Hill, Janet Abaroa was stabbed in the neck and chest. It was likely the wound to the base of her neck, which cut into an artery and lung, that was the fatal blow, the report says. A sharp object also cut the woman's right middle finger, the report shows.

Hmmm I think its possible Janet could have been in a kneeling position or partially kneeling postion when the fatal blow was struck......to me it seems like a stabbing blow to the base of the neck would be hard to do if the perps were close in height but easier and more forceful if the victim is "below" the perp....

The reports by the various individuals will vary a tad when it comes to their observations at the time of their arrival on the scene. So far nothing suggests Raven tried to save Janet that I've read.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

and then, as mysteriew says, Raven must have moved the body, in order for Janet to have then been on her back.

And so how, in moving the body & trying to save her, did he not recognize that there were multiple stab wounds? And without TOD, we can't know if she was already gone at the point when he found her but LE knows. Just trying to help put the pieces together. If it has been determined that she was already deceased before Raven found her, then Raven calling her "hurt" after physically turning her over is a problem.

 

[newkid]

I wonder if the kneeling info was in the text/narrative of the ME report.

If she had been dead for even just a couple of hours when she was found, livor mortis would have begun and been at least partially visible. It should have been noted by those investigating the crime scene and on this may be what they're basing the position of the body.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

The reports by the various individuals will vary a tad when it comes to their observations at the time of their arrival on the scene. So far nothing suggests Raven tried to save Janet that I've read.

I agree. I'm only talking about the post that Rooster made about Raven trying to save Janet. If Rooster really does know Raven, then s/he got that information from somewhere. If Raven himself told Rooster that he tried to save Janet but LE's information shows that Janet was gone before Raven found her, LE might want to get a statement from Rooster. And if Raven claims that Janet was on her knees but she was on her back when the first person arrived, then Raven moved her. If she was already deceased, he would have known that, and wouldn't have said that she was hurt.

Anyway, here is the search warrant link:

WRAL.com - Slideshow

Read it with attention to Patrol Officer Williams.

 

[terminatrixator]

Okay so the way I'm seeing this, Raven reported in his 911 call that he believed Janet was shot and when the officer arrived, he said Janet was hurt, or was this vice versa? Did he say hurt/then shot both in the 911 call. Has the 911 call transcripts been released? Is there a way to get ahold of transcripts for the phone call.

I am now positive that LE arrived prior to Paramedics because it would definitely state Paramedics arrived first.

All crime scenes have a Log that is mandatory, and it would show exactly what personnel entered the crime scene first and their movements at the time.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Anyway, here is the search warrant link:

WRAL.com - Slideshow

Read it with attention to Patrol Officer Williams.

Also note that it states that after speaking with Mr. Abaroa, Officer Williams entered the residence. So evidently they spoke outside. We've heard that Raven was waiting outside for help to arrive.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I would think that it would be standard procedure in a murder for LE to take a swab of any sink in the household. Was the kitchen sink swabbed (I can't remember)?

I believe that a swabbing was done on the bathroom floor and the kitchen counter. I don't remember reading anything about sinks or drains. I'm looking at the search warrant right now. It's in here somewhere. But keep in mind that there are some numbered items missing from this warrant. Here's the link again:

WRAL.com - Slideshow

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Okay so the way I'm seeing this, Raven reported in his 911 call that he believed Janet was shot and when the officer arrived, he said Janet was hurt, or was this vice versa?

In the search warrant, it states that Raven told Patrol Officer Williams in person that his wife was upstairs and that she was hurt. I think that the warrant also states that the call was for a gunshot.

 

[terminatrixator]

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/315/315lect10.htm
ESTIMATING THE TIME OF DEATH
​

There's always going to be at least two (2) estimates of the time of death -- the police department's official estimate (which may or may not be yours) and the Medical Examiner's estimate. Legally, you should be within 4 hours of being accurate, but this is a tough standard even for the best coroners. Remember that, after death, the body starts to cool down to whatever the outside (or room) temperature is. At death, the body starts to drop from it's normal 98.6 degrees by a factor of 3 degrees the first hour and a factor of 1 degree each subsequent hour. Then, after 30 hours, it starts to go up again because of the heat generated by decomposition (but this varies by room or outside temperature, so you need to know weather conditions). The following table illustrates:
​

• 98.6 - time of death
  ​
• 95.6 - one hour after death
  ​
• 94.6 - two hours after death
  ​
• 93.6 - three hours after death
  ​
• 92.6 - four hours after death
  ​
• 91.6 - five hours after death
  ​
• 90.6 - six hours after death
  ​
• -------- (to room or outside temp.)
  ​
• 66.6 - thirty hours after death
  ​

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Okay, in case it doesn't take you to the specific page, it's on page 10.

WRAL.com - Slideshow

Swabbings & controls, (which means that they were swabbing a specific something, correct?), from:

- the kitchen counter
- the master bathroom floor
- opposite wall of victim in office
- desk door
- back of desk
- wall adjacent to the victim
- carpet from below the victim

I'm curious - why would they swab the desk door, (most likely the front of the desk), as well as the back of the desk? I don't know how the desk was situated in the room but that struck me as odd.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Collected from Raven:

- undershirt
- sports shirt
- sweatshirt
- shorts
- 2 pairs of socks
- Clim(a)cool shoes

This could very well be what Raven wore to play soccer since it states "sports shirt" and the athletic shoes.

 

[mysteriew]

This is merely an observation. Many people (esp innocent people, but also people trying to evade a truth) will say someone is hurt, or that they won't respond- even when it is apparent that the victim is dead. It is part of the denial factor- they want to deny that the person is gone.
Another observation. Yes a knife makes a slit wound and a gunshot makes a hole, so you think that they would look different. However, the truth is that after a gunshot- the tissue collapses into the void- sometimes leaving the appearance of a slit to an untrained, emotional observer. I would assume that Raven did not probe the wound to get more info. Upon coming onto a body with a lot of blood- a lot of people would make the assumption that they must have been shot. If Raven is innocent, I would guess that he made some assumptions at the scene that he used in reporting to 911 and LE. They could also be statements he made to show he knew less about what happened, than he actually knows. There isn't enough info there to actually tell us what is true.