Evidence not tested

Discussion in 'Rebecca Zahau Nalepa' started by CuriousGeorgia, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Why didn’t we collect and process the panties in the trash?
    As with many items seized during the service of a search warrant, the panties in the trash at the guest house were seized because we did not know what the significance of that item was at the time. Investigators have one chance to seize items at a search warrant service, so items must be seized even if there is only a possibility it may be related. The investigation revealed this item was likely related to a girl’s slumber party at the mansion in the days leading up to Rebecca’s death. They were not tested for evidence of sexual assault because that examination was conducted on Rebecca herself. No evidence of such a crime was found. They were not tested further because taking into consideration the size of the mansion, and the fact it was open to family and friends, we had to focus our investigation on items directly related to the event in question; items we knew had to be handled or disturbed during the course of the event as it unfolded. Fingerprints, DNA, and other items left behind in other areas of the mansion have limited value in proving or disproving a crime.

    http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html
     
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  3. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    Gore stated, "Why didn’t we collect and process the panties in the trash?
    As with many items seized during the service of a search warrant, the panties in the trash at the guest house were seized because we did not know what the significance of that item was at the time. Investigators have one chance to seize items at a search warrant service, so items must be seized even if there is only a possibility it may be related. The investigation revealed this item was likely related to a girl’s slumber party at the mansion in the days leading up to Rebecca’s death. They were not tested for evidence of sexual assault because that examination was conducted on Rebecca herself. No evidence of such a crime was found. They were not tested further because taking into consideration the size of the mansion, and the fact it was open to family and friends, we had to focus our investigation on items directly related to the event in question; items we knew had to be handled or disturbed during the course of the event as it unfolded. Fingerprints, DNA, and other items left behind in other areas of the mansion have limited value in proving or disproving a crime."

    http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

    Evidence: Naked dead woman in yard. Women's panties found in guest room garbage located a few feet away from the corpse. The room was occupied by the only other person known to be on the property the entire night of the woman's death.

    Gore's Rationale:

    #1) Gore seized the panties because he did not know their significance but illogically did not test them for DNA because he was non scientifically told that they were not the dead woman's panties by a person who had a definite interest in swaying the outcome of the investigation.

    #2) Since Rebecca's body did not show signs of sexual assault by scientific testing Gore then assumed illogically and non scientifically that they did not belong to Rebecca.

    #3) Per Gore,"Fingerprints, DNA, and other items left behind in other areas of the mansion have limited value in proving or disproving a crime."

    Gore did not test the panties for DNA to determine whether she was assaulted and murdered. He obfuscated the issue by attempting to confuse the issue of homicide with sexual assault. Since Rebecca was found naked and tied up then she was either forced to remove her clothes or someone else removed them by force.

    Whether she was sexually assaulted or not is moot because her murderer obviously want to humiliate her by having her found naked. Therefore, it would be logical to assume that the panties and women's clothing in the guest house would be examined and scientifically tested for DNA.

    Gore was biased in collecting and testing data that was found proximally related to the naked condition of the corpse which could discover who murdered Rebecca but he failed to logically and scientifically test that evidence. He then illogically and non scientifically attempted to prove Rebecca committed suicide by directly reversing his initial arguement used not to test the panties.
     
  4. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Should they have also taken all of Rebecca's panties in her underwear drawer and tested those too? What about Jonah's panties? What about panties that GS may have left in a bureau in her room? And maybe test all of Rebecca's clothes, since she was found naked?

    IMO, since she was not sexually assaulted, there was no reason to test the teenager's underwear that was left in the guest house. The only room that they really needed to see what happen was the guest room where Rebecca hung herself from. That is where all the evidence that tells what happened was. And the evidence says Rebecca was in that room - naked - all by herself.
     
  5. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    My point was that a naked dead woman was found a few feet outside from a guest room that contained women's panties and clothes. That room was occupied by the male guest who was purportedly the last person to see the woman alive and the first to find her dead.

    The police never said where the clothes Rebecca wore that night were found. Didn't they think to check the women's clothing and panties found in a man's room a few feet away? Wouldn't DNA testing determine whose clothing and panties they were? This was an investigation, no? Police were attempting to discover what had happened to the naked dead woman, no?

    Why obfuscate not testing pertinent evidence that would have determined the owner's identity by adding confusion about whether or not a sexual assault took place? That was not included in the point I was trying to make.
     
  6. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Freespeech, they weren't women's clothes and underwear. They were teenagers. Big difference. And they weren't found in Adam's room. They were in the other bedroom of the guest house.

    Ok, I'll hold my fingers next time...promise!
     
  7. time

    time New Member

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    Other evidence not tested (I believe)

    The bathroom blood - not even sure the bathroom was processed or fully processed.
     
  8. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Posting in all threads.

     
  9. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    ..."News 8 has learned Sheriff's detectives never attempted to recover a deleted voicemail message, which Nesbit confirmed was left for Zahau by her boyfriend Jonah Shacknai, 54, hours before she died.

    Investigators have said the voicemail may have caused Zahau to commit suicide, because the message allegedly informed her that Shacknai's 6-year-old son, Max, would not survive injuries he suffered during a fall at the mansion while under Zahau's care.

    In the early days of the investigation, Jonah Shacknai told detectives he had left the voicemail message, Lt. Nesbit recalled."...

    http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported
     
  10. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    Below is an excerpt from Anne Bremner's official request to Kamla Harris to open an independent investigation into the death of Rebecca Zahau:


    ..."We are now confirming information from a witness that there may have been a cry for help from a woman in the mansion around 11:30 p.m. the evening prior (to Zahau's death)," Bremner said. "So that's important in terms of the time of death and in terms of the surrounding circumstances."

    Bremner said her private investigation on behalf of the Zahau family also uncovered a mystery woman spotted at the Spreckels mansion an hour or so earlier that same evening.

    "There also was a witness who spoke to law enforcement who indicated that they saw a person outside the house at the 10 o'clock hour," Bremner said, referring to the evening of July 12. "I think it's important information in the investigation in determining whether this is a suicide or a homicide."

    None of the reported witness accounts were confirmed by Sheriff's investigators."...

    http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported
     
  11. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Why didn’t you follow-up with the neighbors when they heard screams?

    A detailed statement was taken from the neighbor who heard a scream. The scream heard was about two and one-half hours before Rebecca’s voice mail was accessed on her phone, and the witness believed it could have been attributed to several teens which were in the area at the time. The witness could not tell exactly where the scream came from, but gestured to an area more toward the beach rather than the mansion. This interview was conducted the first day of the investigation.

    http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html
     
  12. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Why didn’t we process the blood in the shower?

    The condition of the master bedroom lead investigators to believe Rebecca may have been in the shower during the time leading up to her death. The blood drop was very small, and there was evidence Rebecca was experiencing menstrual bleeding, or “spotting,” at the time. Similar blood drops were found outside the door leading to the guest room where the incident occurred. Those samples were tested, and they were found to be from Rebecca. Since the master bedroom is in another part of the mansion, and there was no evidence at the scene of the event suggesting anyone else was bleeding other than Rebecca, this item was not tested.

    http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html
     
  13. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    "...According to the witness, they heard screams from inside the Coronado, Calif., mansion at 11 p.m.

    "The witness went to law enforcement not once, but twice, but was blown off," a source close to the Zahau family told RadarOnline.com. "This witness is credible and their information has been verified, so one is left to wonder why police did not listen to this individual. The witness' information contradicts the theory released by the sheriff's department and questions the timeline, as police claimed. We are left asking, why was this person not taken seriously?"..."

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-witness-heard-screams-went-cops-blown
     
  14. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Looks like someone is not telling the truth...my guess is the source close to the Zahau family. Unidentified sources are often wrong.
     
  15. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    How did the police follow up on finding what caused the tape residue to Rebecca's legs?

    "Regarding the tape residue, Dr Wecht speculated Ms Zahau could have planned to bind her feet with duct tape and then switched to rope. But he added to KFMB-AM: 'Well then, where's the duct tape?'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033617/Jonah-Shacknais-lover-Rebecca-Zahau-tape-residue-legs-t-shirt-stuffed-mouth.html#ixzz24yNrchYm"
     
  16. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Sept. 7, 2011

    BBM

    In a news release the Sheriff's department sent out Tuesday night, the San Diego Medical Examiner says: "The T-shirt that was around [Rebecca's] neck had a portion originally in her mouth that was removed by the person who found her. It is not clear why it was there, although people can place material in their mouth prior to hanging."
    A substance that was found to be similar to tape residue was found on Rebecca's legs, and according to the San Diego Medical Examiner's office: "Sticky material that appeared similar to tape residue was noted on her mid left shin and right lower leg. These were small area areas (about an inch), and their significance is not clear. Their position and size would have been unusual evidence of leg binding."


    The autopsy had also revealed that Rebecca sustained trauma to her head prior to death. "Bruises on the right of her scalp were also seen. These were relatively minor. Because there was evidence that she went over the balcony in a non-vertical position, she may have struck her head on the balcony on the way down," Dr. Jonathan Lucas, of the San Diego Medical Examiner's Office says.
    Also, blood was found on Rebecca's inner thighs, and the San Diego Medical Examiner claims: "Blood was found on her inner thighs and the source was either menses or spotting attributed to an IUD. There was no genital trauma. A small amount of blood was also noted on her big toes which appeared to be due to small scratches from the plants below the balcony."
    In conclusion, the San Diego Medical Examiner firmly stands by their findings that Rebecca Zahau committed suicide: "As in any comprehensive investigation, some findings cannot be entirely explained. None of the observations listed above are inconsistent with the conclusions reached regarding the cause and manner of death of Rebecca Zahau. Our condolences go out to all of those involved in this tragic case."

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...eport-explained-san-diego-sheriffs-department
     
  17. freespeech

    freespeech Inactive

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    Another illogical and unscientific deduction by Sheriff Gore is shown below:

    "...We don't have her (Dina Shacknai) on surveillance tape," Gore confirmed. "Her position was determined thorough GPS triangulation on her cell phone, which put her in the vicinity of Rady Children's Hospital..."

    http://www.cbs8.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

    How does the location of Dina's cell phone prove where Dina was?

    Wouldn't it be nice if life was that simple? One could then illogically and unscientifically explain away any glitch with the most superficially obvious explanation.

    Unfortunately for Sheriff Gore people can be tricky sometimes so a law enforcement officer must learn to think outside the box if they want to solve the crime.
     
  18. inthedark14

    inthedark14 Active Member

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    Thank you for the links to the SDSO CG. However many people just aren't buying their findings. One person for sure isn't buying the CPD findings. DS has stated that quite clearly. The two LE departments worked closely together on these two awful deaths.
     
  19. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    But as of now the deaths are ruled a suicide and an accident, so there are no "suspects". Rebecca's death is officially a suicide. If people are going to accuse innocent people of murdering someone, they should at least have the facts straight, IMO.
     
  20. CuriousGeorgia

    CuriousGeorgia Inactive

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    Gore never said that was ALL the proof they had on Dina. IMO, they would have checked at the hospital with the nurses on the floor that night. They would not just have taken Dina's cell phone location and said "ok". Detectives don't work that way. They do think outside the box.

    What I find fascinating, is that people think that what they said in the news conference was all they did. They had up to 15 investigators working on the case. Trained professionals. They know how to investigate.
     
  21. justice be served

    justice be served New Member

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    SDSO has stated numerous reasons why items were not tested, witnesses were unsubstantiated, etc. The blood in the shower ("she was on her period - why test it?"), the panties next to Adam's room (but they belonged to teenagers! - okay, who says? And Adam admitted watching porn right before finding Rebecca), tape on the legs and on and on. How about the black shirt found next to Max? And leaving Rebecca 13 hours in the sun whereas time of death became that much more difficult?

    IMO LE's focus at the scene of the crime was to tell the story of a suicide and make the evidence fit that story. The following excerpts are from Wiley Encyclopedia of Forensic Science - the bible to forensic scientists. I challenge SDSO to swear on oath that they didn't just look to prove their suicide story. If they had, the evidence collection and processing would have been complete - not footnotes on the SDSO website AFTER the ruling of suicide.

    "Evidence is only evidence when it is probative of a story. Without a
    story there can be no evidence, rather like no shadow without light.
    Evidence becomes forensic evidence when used in a legal process. Many
    pages have been written on how to collect the evidence, but what to
    collect receives scant attention despite being crucial to the forensic
    process.


    Despite the importance of crime scene investigation in the forensic
    process, there is no widely accepted common method or agreed practice.
    Depending on your initial reasoning it may make sense to collect
    everything, or from a different perspective, almost nothing.
    The difficulty
    with crime scene investigation is that it is almost impossible to be sure
    that the scene has been properly investigated.

    In many cases there has been a tendency to identify a suspect and
    then look for the evidence against him, or assume on cursory
    examination what has actually occurred and simply seek confirmatory
    evidence. A large number of biases can then come into play with the
    result that there seems to be an overwhelming case against the accused
    and for the desired version of events.


    The scientific approach, or method, is purported to be less subject to
    the biases and prejudices of the investigator and therefore more likely to
    lead to a higher probability of a correct identification of the story,
    including the identity of the perpetrator. There is a significant body of
    evidence that whilst the scientific method may be unbiased, scientists,
    including forensic scientists, are not.
    "

    http://uchastings.edu/hlj/archive/vol59/Jamieson_59-HLJ-1031.pdf
     
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