Evidence That is Incompatible With an Accident Theory

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by NJ Lawyer, Mar 5, 2009.

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  1. NJ Lawyer

    NJ Lawyer Member

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    In all the document dumps, we read about laundry bags, stickers, etc. at the burial site that match those at the Anthony home. And other evidence, such as Casey's car trunk, linking Casey to a Caylee that was no longer alive. But this evidence really serves to suggest that Casey BURIED Caylee and defense could still argue, "it was an accident". Below are 2 posts of mine that flesh this issue out. What I'd like to do is keep this thread for discussing events, evidence, etc. that are INCOMPATIBLE with the theory that Caylee's death was an accident. Especially since the addition of TM as Casey's new attorney, I think keeping on eye on such evidence will be important.

    Here are the 2 posts:
    ***********************
    Sounds like defense may try to go with an "accident" theory. But I don't think it would attempt such a defense without Casey testifying that it was an accident. Jurors aren't going to be sympathetic to some lawyer showing jurors how it "could" have been an accident when Casey has NEVER said it's an accident and is sitting right there in the courtroom watching the "accident reenactment" without saying whether it's accurate. Even though Casey doesn't HAVE to testify at trial, for the "accident" theory to work I think her testimony would be needed.

    In that regard, I think it would be easier than one thinks. Casey testifies that an accident happened (drowning, whatever) and that she became distraught and scared, calling her parents at every number for over an hour straight. She throws in a sob story about how she held her dead baby crying for the rest of the afternoon. After that, she's in shock and denial and comes up with the "kidnapping" story b/c she's ashamed of what happened and feels guilty about the accident and doesn't want anyone to know Caylee is dead, for fear of breaking everyone's heart (and for getting in trouble herself). Instead, she goes on acting like she is still alive for the sake of those who love Caylee and also b/c she is in denial herself about it. When she disposed of Caylee's body, her mouth was leaking nasty fluids and there were flies in it and it broke her heart to see it. Or maybe Caylee's lip was torn off at this point - who knows. So she covered her daughter's mouth with duct tape and put a heart on it. She buried her close to home b/c she wanted 2 be able 2 visit her easily. As for the rest - she lied to everyone about everything (Zanny; etc.) simply b/c she didn't want anyone to know Caylee was dead because (1) she didn't want to get in trouble and thought it was "too late" to report it; and (2) she didn't want the Anthonys to know their poor grandbaby was dead. Arguably, none of the "evidence" (decomp in the car, same laundry bag at the burial site) contradicts this story. Casey - "Yes, she was with me when she died (accident) and yes, I buried her and yes I lied to everyone b/c I didn't want anyone to know. And there was nothing I could do to bring her back so I went back to living my life and tried not to think about it. Part of me was in denial."

    I'm concerned that a jury could "buy" the above. That's why I'm interested to know when Casey wrote the journal entry saying "I'm happy with the decision I made. I hope the end justifies the means." If she wrote that a few days after Caylee's death, I think it goes against an accident theory. Maybe doesn't disprove it, but really calls it into question. Presumably, she wasn't talking about some innocuous decision, like changing the color of her hair highlights. Also, I hope they are able to tell whether the duct tape was placed on Caylee before or after her death. If prosecutors can show duct tape was placed on Caylee's mouth while she was still alive (Dear Lord Help Us All), then the accident theory goes out the window.

    ***********************
    I hope and pray evidence will show whether the duct tape was placed there pre or post mortem. And I've many times noted that there could be evidence of tears on the duct tape which would point to the tape being placed there while she was alive (but it breaks my heart to think of this). As if we don't have enough tragedies in this case, it would be terrible if persons who murder could (successfully) wait it out long enough for the body to decay so that cause of death is not determinable and then at the last minute in a murder trial, trot out an "accident" defense. At this point, I'm only interested in reading about evidence that is incompatible with an "accident" theory. Everytime I read about clothing and laundry bags at the burial scene matching those at the Anthony house, I think, "So what? She can still say it was an accident and all those things only show that Casey BURIED Caylee, not murdered her on purpose." Of course, events before and after Caylee's death can be viewed as arguably conflicting with an "accident" theory, so prosecutors have that as well. But I am really keeping my eye out for things such as the duct tape and that diary entry.
     
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  3. newuser

    newuser New Member

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    I think KC's very behavior is evidence of "no accident". To me, she enjoys being the center of all attention and making the dramatic stories, like her parents are separating, her dad had a stroke, she was abused, she miscarried, she's buying the house........ and on and on. It wouldn't have taken someone with her personality long to realize that a child who died in an accident would bring a tremendous amount of sympathy. I think she would have displayed an accident very quickly.
     
  4. krimekat

    krimekat Amazed and Baffled

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    I do not understand how Caylee was buried . . . I recall the bag was found above ground. To me Caylee was put out like trash!

    I, too, believe if it was accidential, Casey would have play THAT card a long time ago . . .
     
  5. NJ Lawyer

    NJ Lawyer Member

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    Well, we know Caylee couldn't have been buried deeper, at least not in that spot. No way could a deep hole have been dug with the large tree roots. I'm not sure if the depth of burying means Caylee's death could NOT have been an accident. In this thread, I was hoping we could discuss the various pieces of evidence that are actually incompatible with the accident theory. Because I think the defense may use it (even if it's a "card" Casey should have used "long ago."). I think it's coming so I want to be prepared for it and hope the prosecution is too!!!
     
  6. icherish

    icherish New Member

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    The problem I have with this theory is the duct tape was not just stuck on to the mouth ie: to prevent fluids from leaking- it was wrapped, it was stuck to the sides of her hair, the hair had to be cut away from it.

    I go along with Dr. Perper's firm theory: the placement of duct tape on the child shows the child was assaulted. It shows the murder was intentional.
     
  7. chefmom

    chefmom Seriously! Ancient Aliens!

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    I agree that the forensics on when the duct tape was placed over the baby's mouth and the diary entry are very important to blowing the "accident" theory out of the water. Personally, I feel that not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days will also be a factor in this. She can say that she was scared, freaked out, panicked, whatever, but I do not believe that many people, parents in particular, will accept that a mother, who's child has had an accident, instead of calling 911, decided to triple bag her body, dump her in a swampy ravine down the road, and then went to Blockbuster with her current love interest to rent movies and have a "normal" evening. Then, in the month that proceeded, she partied like there was no tomorrow, got a new tattoo, stole money, bought beer and lingerie, and ONLY after being confronted by her mother, who actually made the eventual 911 call, did she concoct the "nanny" story to cover her behind. One burning question I have had through all of this, is this: If CA had not confronted KC that evening at TonE's and called 911, how long would KC have continued to go about her life as though nothing had happened? How long would she have waited before finally telling someone that something had happened to Caylee? Would she ever have? These things make me feel that an accident claim is not going to be very believable at trial. Of course, JMO.
     
  8. Oakley

    Oakley New Member

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    Without thinking it through, several things immediately come to mind:

    If an accident, why let it go this far without confessing?
    Her behavior during the time Caylee was missing is inconsistent with an accident or a psychological trauma - partying, lying & stealing (old behaviors) etc. Friends indicated no idea anything was wrong during that time- Casey was happy and her usual self.
    "I'm a spiteful *****" remark to Lee , Chloroform and home weapon searches - inconsistent with accident
     
  9. Baznme

    Baznme New Member

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    I'm still hoping they are able to trace chemicals in the hair that was still attached to the duct tape. That would indicate this was no accident.

    Also, the ink used to write the journal entry can be dated as there are different formulas made for ink pens every few years. They can even tell when the paper was printed. So, if the date in the journal is earlier than when the paper was printed, we know the date is fictitious.

    The 31 days is going to be a difficult point for the defense to argue.
     
  10. magic-cat

    magic-cat Mother to Many

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    One piece of evidence that I do not feel supports an "accident" theory is the way that Casey told Amy H. that she had "gotten rid of the smell in her car", and another about having "scraped the dead animal off the frame of her car"...those are not exact quotes-just the gist. I do not believe that someone whose baby ACTUALLY had an accident and had died could so coldly be referred to as "the smell in the car"...That is almost, not almost, that is a completely SADISTIC mindset in light of what we now know-that little baby Caylee WAS the smell in the car and probably the "animal" she "scraped off"...

    To me those messages would seem to defy the accidental/but still sorry and sad theory and blow it into bits.

    I was so sad and filled with grief, and yet referred to my innocent little baby as a "smell in the car" and an animal that had to be "scraped up".
     
  11. icherish

    icherish New Member

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    You make some very good points!

    I also cannot believe after such a horrible, tragic accident she would be able to cooly stroll through Blockbuster picking out murder flicks with her lover, then go cuddle up at his place to watch.

    Probably got her groove on, too....not a care in the world as her baby lay dead in her trunk. :furious::sick: jmo
     
  12. one_hooah_wife

    one_hooah_wife Loving Colorado!

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    I hope I understand what you are getting at in the original post after scanning through ... but to me the most damning evidence so far proving that the defense will not claim "accident" is that they have employed many high profile expert witnesses to testify against the forensic evidence found ... if it were an accident with subsequent cover-up ... the evidence would be the same! There would be no need to question the forensics ... because if Casey said ... "Oops, Caylee's death occurred by accident and I panicked" the forensic evidence found with the remains would be the same ... regardless!
     
  13. LCoastMom

    LCoastMom JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE MARIE - STILL WAITING

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    The computer searches, the chloroform found in the car, the duct tape placed across Caylee's face, and in her hair. The heart sticker. The Winnie the Pooh blanket.

    The timing, Caylee didn't go missing in winter or spring, she went missing just before the rainy season.

    The continual lies to Cindy about seeing Caylee "tomorrow". The lies to everyone else that Caylee was having big fun with Zani the Nanny. The lies to LE. The wild goose chases with LE.

    KC's behavior in the days and weeks following Caylee's death. If KC had disappeared, just taken off and hid out some place, I might have been able to believe it was an accident and KC had gone into some kind of shock. The parties, the emails, the lies (again) all point to acknowledging something bad had happened but KC was ready to play it out as knowing nothing or knowing Caylee was missing with someone she knew.

    The dumping of Caylee pictures from KC's accts.

    The IM to Jesse saying I have something to tell you, sometime when I'm drunk I'll call you and tell you.

    The refusal to work with LE.

    KC's behavior when LP did the search at the park vs LE telling her a body was found down the street from her parents house.

    The way KC reacts to any questions from her family.

    Telling her parents Caylee would be home for her Birthday. Such cruelty in the things she said and the way she talks to them.

    If the notebook/diary entry is from June 2008, she might as well have signed a confession.

    The entries KC made to her MySpace/FaceBook accts following Caylee disappearing.

    KC telling Lee she is a spiteful b*tch.

    I believe most of the things that link KC also goes to premeditation, which would rule out an accident.
     
  14. debbie0604

    debbie0604 New Member

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    IIRC Mr. Melich asked her several times in her recorded interviews with LE if she was afraid that if she did something to the baby that people would look at her "in the wrong way" and she answered "no sir." I understood also from the interview at Universal that Mr. Melich and Mr. Allen also told her that if it was an accident she should tell them because if she didn't, it could be worse for her. They were trying to help her. She refused. This was no accident.

    The computer searches for chloroform,"neck breaking" and "household weapons", triple bagging of the baby, with.... God help us "duct taping" that poor baby's mouth and placing a heart sticker on the duct tape (that matches the tape in the home).....it's just saddens my heart to think that someone could do that to a child. Then the horrific smell in her car meaning that Caylee was in the car (using the words of Mr. Melich... "rotting away somewhere".. well she was in her mother's car)... this pains me to have to type that... This was no accident. God love that child. I sure hope and pray that KC is convicted of first degree murder... because that's what this case is.
     
  15. Bluebelle

    Bluebelle Registered User

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    Caylee's death was clearly an accident.

    CMA was teaching Caylee how to mix homemade chloroform when a gust of wind accidentally tore a piece of duct tape off the roll that was sitting there and blew it over to Caylee where it accidentally wrapped itself tightly around her mouth & hair, causing her to accidentally fall into the trunk where another strong wind gust accidentally blew a heart sticker onto the duct tape directly over her mouth. Caylee wanted to finish making the chloroform so CMA put the fresh batch in the trunk with her but then Caylee accidentally crawled into not one but two black garbage bags and then a third white bag before CMA realized she couldn't get her out of the trunk with all of those bags on her. CMA was in a hurry to go rent movies with her boyfriend so she accidentally forgot to call 911 for help or tell anyone what had happened. Then after accidentally forgetting Caylee was in the trunk for a few days, she decided to take her back to G & C's but accidentally made a wrong turn onto Suburban and then by accident left Caylee in the woods where she went as a kid, accidentally hiding her under the thick entangled plant-life.
     
  16. Macushla

    Macushla Our Royal Himalayan Gopher Hounds

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    This is an excellent point, and I hope the DA brings it up at trial if the Defense goes for the accidental death scenario!
     
  17. rice09

    rice09 New Member

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    Who on God's green earth would really go for the "accident" theory anyway after all this time? I mean, she has had since last July to come clean and has refused. All the evidence proves to intentional. KC knows this. She and her defense would look like fools to go that route. If it truly were an accident, why all the lies????
     
  18. Gypsy Road

    Gypsy Road New Member

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    Maybe I'm on information over load and not making sense (my mind is mush after reading through the docs), but if this were TRULY an accident - why not have Casey confess? Why risk the whole trial thing and gamble? If she loses, there's a good chance she'll get LWOP or even the DP. If she confesses to a horrible accident, she at least has a chance of having a life outside prison walls some day. Am I missing something here?

    ETA - Just for the record, I DON'T THINK IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
     
  19. rice09

    rice09 New Member

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    You hit the nail on the head!!!:floorlaugh:
     
  20. MarleneM

    MarleneM Inactive

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    I agree. But more so Gypsy, your new picture gave me a great laugh. :D
     
  21. snowbun

    snowbun New Member

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    Add to everything else already said, the tattoo, "the beautiful life".

    Accident or abduction, that tattoo makes no sense with a grieving scared mother.

    imo
     
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