Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by wfgodot, Jul 3, 2012.
Ex-FBI employee claims she saw angels at Flight 93 (wtae.com)
much more at link above
So wonderful that she decided to tell what she saw and felt. What others choose to think, feel and believe is up to them, but this experience helped this lady in some way. I do hope that this does help others as quoted from the article:
"She said her primary reason for deciding to go public with her story after years of soul-searching is to heal and to bring comfort and healing to others affected either by the attack or post-traumatic stress disorder."
I'm not questioning that she saw what she saw. But as for "legions of angels guarding the crash site" (and it isn't clear whose words those are), if they were "guardian angels", they were a little late.
Nova, that's just mean.
I don't think they were "late." Do YOU know how long it takes to leave the body and go to the next world? Do you know how long it takes to assimilate that you're now dead, and it's time to move on? Late? Because they didn't prevent the tragedy of 9/11? If you truly believe that, then you don't understand the concept of free will at all.
I believe the soul survives death. I believe - firmly - that a traumatic death is harder on every soul (those who's body has died and their loved ones), and that some linger, maybe for years. I believe that there are those who died on 9/11 who were taken to heaven/the next life immediately, and I also believe there are those who died on 9/11 who still haven't moved on.
Who is to say that what she saw was NOT angels, there to escort those who chose to move forward, and also to be at the site of great grief and horror? Who is to say that this isn't a true, and real, sighting of angels, sent there by God, to be present and to witness the horror of what man can do to man? And to witness the best that man can do for other men - trying to take over the plane, and thus crashing it, so that others may live...the best and the worst of man in that one plane, that one moment. Angels belonged there, and, imho, were there.
Seriously. If you were joking, it was in quite poor taste. And if you weren't, then you're just being mean (note I'm not saying you are mean; just that your post is mean-spirited.)
As for me, I am absolutely hopeful that she indeed saw angels. She saw something, and I'm glad she's come forward. I look forward to reading more, and hearing more, about her experiences. She's not the first to come forward with seeing angels on 9/11...
Very interesting account of WWI's alleged "Angels of Mons" incident, which shares at least three things in common with this story: of course the mythic component, with its appeal to a higher power for protection; the patriotic element (an event that was said to have occurred at a very trying time in a nation's history: "nerves and imagination play weird pranks in these strenuous times"); and the fog - or mist, in Ms. Leonardi's story. It greatly differs in the fact that no one who was at Mons was found to substantiate the tale directly. Ms. Leonardi claims to have seen the angels firsthand.
The Angel of Mons (Fortean Times)
It makes me sad that this woman's hopeful and encouraging story will generate criticism and negativity, but that is our human-ness I suppose. I am grateful to her for telling us what she saw and felt. It gives a sense of meaning and beauty that not even the evil of that terrible act could destroy.
non believers will not believe her, and believers will. I'm the later one.
I believe that it's very possible that she believes she saw angels.
However, the jaded part of me asks why publish a book about it if the only reason to come forward with this information is to help heal others?
(I did note that on her website that one of the books she has published is about EMDR therapy and I wanted to post that because I know we have some members here that have asked about that therapy in the past).
Sorry, but anyone who claims she saw "guardian" angels at the scene where dozens of people were murdered in a plane crash deserves a little mocking.
I don't know whether she saw angels or not. But the idea that they were "guarding" anybody is its own joke and shouldn't have required me to point it out.
Now YOU are telling me these were "escort angels", which I must admit makes more sense. If their function was to aid souls in a transition to the next plane of existence, fine. But if they were "guards", they were sleeping on the job that morning.
I'm sorry if that offends some people, but frankly the tendency of some to believe that angels are "guarding" us at a website devoted to the worst atrocities perpetrated largely against women and children strikes me as the most superficial sentimentality.
And, yes, I went to Sunday School. I know about Free Will. I also know that people like to attribute everything they like to God and good angels and every they don't like to Satan and evil spirits. Sort of like the Good and Bad Witches of Oz.
Ridiculous ideas deserve a little ridicule. It's how we discourage them.
Yes, they would have said that. They would have removed her from the crash site and sent her home. It is understandable to have an extreme reaction to something that incomprehensible.
I dont know what she saw-I wasnt there. I, personally, would have found some value to her owning up to what she was seeing and allowing those around her to make the determination as to whether or not she should continue in her roll.
I'm blown away from her statement:
"'The biggest thing for me is that that there were no bodies,' she said.
Leonardi, 56, remembers the burning pine and jet fuel stinging her nostrils. She said she also remembers a smoldering crater littered with debris too small to associate with the jetliner or 40 passengers and crew on board."
For the officials to admit that there was something wrong with that crash site is amazing. She has PTSD now. If there were no bodies or body parts, what triggered the PTSD? What else was out there? Maybe the stress came from having to keep quiet about what wasn't there, like a plane and passengers. People who have been to crash sites say this was completely different than any other they've seen.
My uncle was involved in a strange situation involving Project Bluebook. He was threatened to keep quiet about what he saw, and it haunted him.
With a situation as huge as 911, a crime scene that doesn't fit the crime, and possible threats to keep quiet, I can see why she has PTSD and saw "angels".
I am not one to run down what someone believes. If she believes she saw angels, then in her reality, that is what she saw. And for those that believe they saw a demonic face in the flames of the Towers, that is their reality. Maybe the angels were escorts, maybe they were guardians of those that died, or maybe they were guardians of those that were spared that day.
I believe that 9/11 was a day of incredible emotional and spiritual power. That is how I choose to remember it, as horrific as it was. Collective thinking, global consciousness, intense spiritual awareness, whatever you want to call it, I believe that they are powerful, and there was a lot of it going on that day. Even my dad, who was an agnostic, whispered "God help them" when the second plane hit. I think most of the country uttered some reference to a higher power at least once that day, and I think that kind of massive communal thought can have an effect on the physical world.
Did she see angels sent by God? Maybe. Did she see examples of massive amounts of thought and emotional power manifested as something her mind could comprehend, such as angels? Maybe. Either way she believes it, that makes it real enough. I'll leave it there.
In her promo video for the book (I think I saw this in a Daily Mail article) she claims to have begun seeing angels at age three or four, the Archangel Michael being the wingéd visitor at that time.
Here it is; video's at the bottom:
She sounds like a nut.
How did that not come up in the FBI background check, personal history and psych eval?
Well, obviously, she knew enough to keep her mouth shut on the subject of angels at certain times.
I certainly know people of strong faith who believe they see supernatural phenomena on occasion. If doesn't seem to interfere with their ability to sense the natural world clearly and I don't consider them crazy.
But if it ever gets to the point of, "I couldn't see the evidence, Sir, because there were angels in the way," then it may be time to retire.
My first thought regarding the "guardian angels" being late was this:
Perhaps they WERE guardian angels...lives were saved that day.
Perhaps the angels were guarding THOSE souls...the ones at the intended target...from the only place were the necessary actions could occur: on the plane.
Perhaps the guardian angels were there to protect the people on the plane JUST LONG ENOUGH for them to overtake the plane and save those other people who surely would have died had the plane reached its intended target. Had the Flight 93 people been killed in their attempt to overtake the hijackers, the plane most likely would have reached its destination. Keeping those people safe for that short period of time has kept other people alive for years.
Perhaps the guardian angels were there to comfort the people as they plunged to their deaths. Guarding doesn't necessarily mean saving.
If she did see guardian angels, I think they did their job quite well.
So the guardian angels could get to Pennsylvania to help crash the plane, but not to Newark to stop the flight altogether?
I swear, if guardian angels exist, they are the most incompetent crowd in the universe!
I know, I know: let's make up more excuses for their countless failures, all to defend a concept for which there is no proof whatsoever. (And moreover, the witness claims she saw them lined up in columns. I won't begin to speculate why non-physical beings need to operate in orderly lines.)
I've never claimed the FBI agent in question didn't see something; for all I know, it may even have been something metaphysical. I merely object to the assumption that they were "guardians". That seems invented out of whole cloth.
Nova, I think our belief system is so different that we would never agree on what this woman possibly did or did not see. For all I know, she didn't see diddly-squat. My belief system, however, leaves guardian angels open as a possibility.
As for where the "angels" could get in a timely fashion to prevent XYZ, I'm sure they could have if that had been God's will. Again, my belief system supports this and I gather that yours does not. Never the twain shall meet.
Regardless, based on what DID happen, I was offering possibilities for why a guardian angel would possibly be in that field.
I've always wondered why I kinda-maybe-sort-of believe in the concept of ghosts as an observable objective phenomenon, but have never believed the same possibility about angels. No idea why. I mean, I was raised in the church.
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