Excluding the Ramseys, Profile of the Killer.

[madeleine]

But I will think about it............

 

[Roy23]

Spot on, Madeleine: a single profile for this crime would be nigh-on impossible. I think it was you who had that quote of ST's as a signature ('unknown in the annals of crime; such a bird does not exist..). I think that's right, at least in terms of profiling the crime.


I have just spent a few minutes on a profile that would fit my IDI alternative theory and have to admit that I am scared to post it since it's so obvious who I have as my IDI suspects and we have to be careful. Suffice to say that both Voynich and HOTYH have hit upon aspects of this case that would lead me to those suspects and that I see undergraduate humour (or someone exposed to undergraduate humour) as clear as a coal seam through the RN.

Hmmm! Sounds interesting.

 

[James50]

I think that murder was the motive but a secondary one. And I see no comparison whatsoever to the Zodiac. The Zodiac was about taunting police and having a sense of superiority.

That isn't quite correct. To say there is no connection "whatsoever" is to go a bridge too far. The Dirty Harry perp was based on the Zodiac killer and there are many similarities between the RN of this case and Zodiac RNs (not sure if you've read them). Certainly it contains the same sense of superiority -- of that there is no doubt. There's also the attitude that the perp can pit his wits against the police and win, for he says "We are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures."

But he wasn't the Zodiac killer himself. This is a different guy and he had his own spin. There are nonetheless very close parallels, suggesting he had more than a passing interest in the Zodiac murders and that kind of crime in general. I don't mean he was trying to copy the Zodiac killer exactly, but that whole killing concept, taking ideas from all such killers, whether real or characters in movies.

I am of course guessing here but I imagine that the perp hoped on getting JBR out of the house.

I don't believe the guy ever intended to kidnap her. I believe the reference to the 118, 000 was just a way of signalling to John that the perp hated "fat cat" who made large bonuses, and he would vent his anger about that on JBR. I agree with those who say that the amount was too small to be part of a serious kidnap plot.

I think the intruder was a young sadist and he also knew of and had a beef with John Ramsey. I must admit that it is hard writing that because it seems unrealistic. Of course almost any motive seems crazy in this case.

I agree, though I should point out that there's usually a method in peole's madness. Crasy doesn't have to mean not explainable.

 

[madeleine]

Maybe they were 2.One training the other.The evil twisted adult and the young silly apprentice.The first one is someone who knew the R's.The DNA belongs to the young one.

 

[madeleine]

Btw,what was M.Tracey doing back then?I always wanted to ask that,just out of curiosity.He loved it to get involved in the investigation and he spent way too much time with JMK even if IMO he knew JMK is talking bs.

 

[madeleine]

Another thought......I don't like coincidences......the 911 call 2 days before when the R's had their party and their friends over,the R's were at their friends party just before it happened,they called their friends over the day after.........same friends......now I know these friends were cleared by DNA,but were their kids?See post above re adult+kid.

 

[madeleine]

If it was just en evil sick idiot planning a perfect crime,wanting to play a game(I understand why someone like this would pick THIS family and THIS child) maybe he killed himself when he realized that no one takes him for serious and he didn't accomplish anything.How come he didn't strike again.Why did he never brag about it.Maybe he felt like a complete loser after it.I mean,he needed to bash her head AND strangle her in order to kill her.He couldn't even rape her.His note turned out to be a joke.

 

[madeleine]

Ok I am done before you think I went nuts. :crazy:
Maybe I wasn't that clear but I think it's pretty easy to understand who nr.1 and nr.2 are on my IDI list .Intruder nr.3 is the last one,someone completely unknown.

 

[James50]

See what people seem to keep missing is that the RN goes way beyond just being something someone who had seen a lot of movies is likely to have written. It shows a knowledge of the Zodiac murders. This is someone who has taken a keen interest in these murders and has borrowed ideas from them, and not just from the movies. This is someone who is obsessed with that whole theme.

This is a world far removed from that of people who enter their daughter in beauty pageants. The whole idea that Patsy wrote that note is a nonsense.

 

[BBB167893]

Why did you highlight 'military' and 'known for his lack of empathy' and then whistle 'dont worry be happy'?

Its nonsensical to everyone but you. Wanna fill me in?

My pleasure! I'm not the first person who has said that the parts I highlighted (JR's and yours) almost sound like JR was describing himself.

Those with a predisposition for RDI would not be able to produce a profile other than 'female southern drama mom'.

Problem is, it's not just "those with a predisposition to RDI."

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Madeleine.

yep, my imagination .... I've considered multiples of possibilities IDI wise,
but I guess it's difficult for me to negate the 'evidence of prior sexual abuse' so I always go back to the persons who would have had contact with JBR in the 3 to 10 days prior to her death.

The only way to divert that train of thought, is to consider that the sexual abuse and murder of JBR are independant events ... for the IDI perp to have been unknown.

I wonder if the true intent of the crime was to silence JBR.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi James50.

I googled Victory shall be the call/ cry with limited results.
Got any source material that you could direct me towards, that quote in literature or ?

 

[BBB167893]

The whole idea that Patsy wrote that note is a nonsense.

Oh, yeah? How much time have you got?

 

[madeleine]

Hi Madeleine.

yep, my imagination .... I've considered multiples of possibilities IDI wise,
but I guess it's difficult for me to negate the 'evidence of prior sexual abuse' so I always go back to the persons who would have had contact with JBR in the 3 to 10 days prior to her death.

The only way to divert that train of thought, is to consider that the sexual abuse and murder of JBR are independant events ... for the IDI perp to have been unknown.

I wonder if the true intent of the crime was to silence JBR.

It's fair to admit that whoever wrote the RN was involved in JB's murder.
But I always said that go back and check who was abusing her (RDI,IDI,whatever,doesn't even matter) and you'll probably have the killer.
Is it THAT hard fgs?!There's the answer!! (IMO)
It was either a parent or someone who had access to her,so someone known.

I guess you could also say that her abuse is not related to the crime,but what are the odds,I don't know.....

And here comes the part that makes me so :furious: at M.lacy and those who talk ONLY about the DNA.

It could have been a close friend who was cleared because of the damn DNA but maybe this person had an accomplice or was trying to teach a younger one something.
It could have been a R who needed some help in the cover-up.





Anyway you look at it,the killer might never be caught BECAUSE of the DNA if dna is the ONLY thing you're looking at.

 

[madeleine]

You know,would be nice if for once all key players forget about their freaking EGO'S and work together.(cops,JR,all the rest)That should have happened in the first place.Maybe it's too late.And that's something that I will NEVER ever get.I can understand the cops behaviour,not that I agree with it.But the R's??Why all the EGO fights.This wasn't about THEM,it was about JB.If they're innocent why was it about THEM all the time???There are signs that someone was abusing your child and you just ignore it because that evidence might point to you at first?SO WHAT???!!!That's why you hired top lawyers!So they can make sure you're not accused for something you didn't do.Why ignore the obvious then?Why is L,Smit saying it was a sadistic pedo if you on the other hand IGNORE abuse and assault?Why do you say there's no evidence of sexual assault?



I will never get it.Never.Sorry.

 

[Roy23]

That isn't quite correct. To say there is no connection "whatsoever" is to go a bridge too far. The Dirty Harry perp was based on the Zodiac killer and there are many similarities between the RN of this case and Zodiac RNs (not sure if you've read them). Certainly it contains the same sense of superiority -- of that there is no doubt. There's also the attitude that the perp can pit his wits against the police and win, for he says "We are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures."

But he wasn't the Zodiac killer himself. This is a different guy and he had his own spin. There are nonetheless very close parallels, suggesting he had more than a passing interest in the Zodiac murders and that kind of crime in general. I don't mean he was trying to copy the Zodiac killer exactly, but that whole killing concept, taking ideas from all such killers, whether real or characters in movies.



I don't believe the guy ever intended to kidnap her. I believe the reference to the 118, 000 was just a way of signalling to John that the perp hated "fat cat" who made large bonuses, and he would vent his anger about that on JBR. I agree with those who say that the amount was too small to be part of a serious kidnap plot.



I agree, though I should point out that there's usually a method in peole's madness. Crasy doesn't have to mean not explainable.

James,

I just do not see many similarities with Zodiac. And I know quite a bit about the Zodiac case and follow it. Dirty Harry only takes a small piece of the Zodiac case in reality and that was the school bus threat. Zodiac hunted down strangers in the city. JBR case is completely different. Their home was invaded and the note was personlized to the Ramsey family. Zodiac got his rocks off rubbing LE's nose in their mistakes. In this case, no known communication is out there since Christmas night in 1996.

The guy may have been interested in Zodiac but the crimes are polar opposite. Zodiac, to our knowlege, never hit anyone with a blunt instrument or strangled anyone with 100% certainty.

 

[James50]

James,

I just do not see many similarities with Zodiac. And I know quite a bit about the Zodiac case and follow it. Dirty Harry only takes a small piece of the Zodiac case in reality and that was the school bus threat. Zodiac hunted down strangers in the city. JBR case is completely different. Their home was invaded and the note was personlized to the Ramsey family. Zodiac got his rocks off rubbing LE's nose in their mistakes. In this case, no known communication is out there since Christmas night in 1996.

The guy may have been interested in Zodiac but the crimes are polar opposite. Zodiac, to our knowlege, never hit anyone with a blunt instrument or strangled anyone with 100% certainty.

Okay,we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one for now. I repeat that I'm not saying the perp was a carbon copy of the Zodiac killer or that he was try7ing to mimic him in every detail, only that he was into all that sort of thing. Not everything he did would match what the Z killer did. But there are enough parallels to make it clear that he must have taken a keen interest in and borrowed from the Z stories. I don't have time to go into it now, but I will try to find time later.

 

[James50]

Hi James50.

I googled Victory shall be the call/ cry with limited results.
Got any source material that you could direct me towards, that quote in literature or ?

I don't think it was an exact quote from anything, but the words "Victory! shall be the call (or cry)" make logical sense together like that as a complete sentence, and so "shall be the call" fits with "Victory".

Note also that "The call of Victory" is a common expression.

Now take a look at this statement:

"The might of Germany lies in its people who will follow orders without comprehension, mindless troops who follow blindly the ideals of a raving madman.

"We, the Red Sons stand for something that is greater than any one man, we will fight with such fervor on the ruins of our city that every blast from our rifles will have what's left of your invading force running and cowering in fear. You may have the numbers, but you will be no match for our resolve. With the support of the French, our mighty and fearless General, and the iron wills of her city's own Sons, we will show you what it means to be beaten.

"Not One Step Back!" shall be the call, and when you hear it you will know, we are Soviet, and we are legion.

"~Jeff Epoch,
Commander: Red Sons"

As you see here, the whole idea behind "shall be the call" is that it's a battle cry for those who believe they will vanquish their enemies. And so it naturally fits right in with "Victory!"

Consider also the expression: "Too late, too late, shall be their cry."

Now if JB was already dead, that indeed was true. It was too late and that would be everyone's cry - except for the killer's. His cry would be "Victory!" Hence "Victory! Shall be the cry."

Note by the way that in Mormon literature, you have this:

"And behold, and lo, this shall be their cry, and the voice of the Lord unto all people: Go ye forth unto the land of Zion, that the borders of my people may be enlarged, and that her stakes may be strengthened, and that Zion may go forth unto the regions round about." - LDS (Mormon), The Doctrine and Covenants.


So the expressions "shall be the call" or "shall be the cry" are quite natural ones that also fit with Victory! in a way that nothing else I have heard so far does.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

James,

I just do not see many similarities with Zodiac. And I know quite a bit about the Zodiac case and follow it. Dirty Harry only takes a small piece of the Zodiac case in reality and that was the school bus threat. Zodiac hunted down strangers in the city. JBR case is completely different. Their home was invaded and the note was personlized to the Ramsey family. Zodiac got his rocks off rubbing LE's nose in their mistakes. In this case, no known communication is out there since Christmas night in 1996.

The guy may have been interested in Zodiac but the crimes are polar opposite. Zodiac, to our knowlege, never hit anyone with a blunt instrument or strangled anyone with 100% certainty.

Enjoying reading your posts. Please keep it up.

I've seen similarities in other crimes for sure:

Garrote and headbash: actor Bob Crane (Hogan's Heroes)

"You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult" is an ideological equivalent to 'Death to Pigs' from Manson killings.

 

[Roy23]

Enjoying reading your posts. Please keep it up.

I've seen similarities in other crimes for sure:

Garrote and headbash: actor Bob Crane (Hogan's Heroes)

"You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult" is an ideological equivalent to 'Death to Pigs' from Manson killings.

Same to ya, Holdon:crazy: