Explain the Blood in the Trunk

[kk's mom]

I think that is what they have already done, and Madelaines DNA was found in a blood sample in the back of the car.

Thanks Shazza. I was confused when they said they found traces of blood. I wasn't sure if it was "just blood" or "Maddie's blood".....

 

[Shazza]

Thanks Shazza. I was confused when they said they found traces of blood. I wasn't sure if it was "just blood" or "Maddie's blood".....

They found traces of Madelaines blood, but not sure if it was transferred via clothing or something she could have been wrapped in, or a blood stain on the interior of the car.

 

[Edwards20]

Here is the article about blood in the rental car. Still looking for the cadaver hits.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

But a spokeswoman for the family, Justine McGuiness, said police have said the girl's blood was found in a vehicle rented by the family 25 days after Madeleine went missing.

I would like to hear this from LE. Perhaps this is what LE is telling the family, perhaps not.

So, I still need solid clarification that Maddie's DNA was in that trunk. Also, the spokesperson is stating the car was not rented until 25 days later. I am still not sure we are getting the "facts". \

However, in the scenario of there truly being DNA from Maddie in that trunk. I will go with "transfer". I am not sure her body was in that trunk.

I am sitting here listening to Gerry or Kate's brother on the Today Show. He said if they have "forensic evidence" why are they showing it to them ? So, I am just not sure what to believe.

I am holding judgement until the facts of the DNA are made public by the LE, they have their reasons and I have faith that we will all know soon enough.

DITTO

I agree, and that only infuriates me more. Why weren't they being watched 25 days after she'd gone missing????? :banghead:

I think they were being watched ... perhaps not being "followed", but they have managed to keep this case in the public eye.

Also, I would like to know where the original DNA sample came from.

 

[Shazza]

I think the McCanns were watched by the P LE from day one, they were the last to see Madelaine alive, so they would have to have been suspects in the eyes of the law even if they were told that they were not, the testimonies of the McCanns and their friends would have been read and reread over and over. If most of the posters here thought they were guilty from the start, then surely the P LE would have had their suspicions, they had to cross their T's and dot their I's before the could formally tell them they were suspects. I think they have evidence to convict them but are unable to release it to the public in case it hinders the case.

 

[Trino]

I think the McCanns were watched by the P LE from day one, they were the last to see Madelaine alive, so they would have to have been suspects in the eyes of the law even if they were told that they were not, the testimonies of the McCanns and their friends would have been read and reread over and over. If most of the posters here thought they were guilty from the start, then surely the P LE would have had their suspicions, they had to cross their T's and dot their I's before the could formally tell them they were suspects. I think they have evidence to convict them but are unable to release it to the public in case it hinders the case.

Good post. We voice suspicions, but LE has evidence. While it would be nice to know what LE has, it's to their advantange to keep it under wraps. We'll learn more when (and I think this will happen) the McCanns are arrested. (I wonder if they can jog in jail.)

 

[Autumn2004]

I believed the parents till this point even though I had suspicions when the twins were not taken along with her. Now I think they did it. I always thought they were incredibly negligent when it came to their kids but now Im sure they did something to her.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I think the McCanns were watched by the P LE from day one, they were the last to see Madelaine alive, so they would have to have been suspects in the eyes of the law even if they were told that they were not, the testimonies of the McCanns and their friends would have been read and reread over and over. If most of the posters here thought they were guilty from the start, then surely the P LE would have had their suspicions, they had to cross their T's and dot their I's before the could formally tell them they were suspects. I think they have evidence to convict them but are unable to release it to the public in case it hinders the case.

Shazza,
I agree with you. I think that LE has been on them from the very beginning. In America we are so used to getting so much information that some may assume that because P LE has had little to say they must not be doing their job. I believe they are cunning and getting the house in order.

 

[Texana]

Now that the McCanns are both formally named "arguido" under Portugese law, all evidence against them must be shown to them. Anything they say can be used against them in court (unlike their previous witness status.)

It has been reportedly leaked that the car the McCanns rented 25 days after Maddie disappeared was rented before that by one of the other members of the vacationing British group.

It has not been officially said that the DNA sample was from blood but rather bodily fluids which would include many things.

 

[MoonGoddess]

Sounds like you just might be onto something there.

ColoMom, will you ask your friends if there were ice machines located in and around the resort? Thanks.

Hi angarella

I am colomoms 'freind' - I didn't notice any 'ice machines' near the resort. All the apartments at the OC vary - ours was over two floors so very different to the McC's one but I beleive the facilities inside are about the same, ours had a fridge/freezer and no way would even a small body fit inside one. I have toyed with the idea that they (McC'S) were into their tennis - aren't tennis balls kept at a certain temperature? in an iced container? just how they would have had access to that I really dont know or beleive that would be feasable - I am of the belief that as there is miles and miles of waste/barren scrubland VERY close to the resort - this would be the most feasable method of disposal to me.

I personally feel that at some point Madeleines body was transported in a suitcase, whether that same suitcase was then used to transport their belongings in the back of their hire car to their new apartment - I am not sure... but I sincerely hope that the PJ have checked to see if they are in posession of the same suitcases that they arrived with - I doubt it!!

Somebody mentioned the Tapas staff being able to have been aware of all the comings and goings of the group - I was VERY surprised at how small the Tapas bar was (and the fact that Tapas was not on the menu!!) there was approx 24/30 placed settings (you HAVE to prebook due to limited space) - this was a group of nine, 4 tables would have to have been placed together to accomodate the size of the party, there were two cooks on display in an open air type kitchen preparing the food, there were 3 waiting staff in attendance when we ate there, and it was not full, I would imagine you would have about 1 member of staff attending 3 tables (depending on size) so it would be easy for the staff to be fully aware of the comings and goings.

I do hope this makes sense.

Love to everyone:blowkiss:
Diane

 

[ThoughtFox]

I've been lurking and reading through all the great posts - thanks for opening the new page just about Madeline also.

I thought I heard them say something on the news that I couldn't believe - that the parents had always been interviewed together up till now, and only in the past few days have they been interviewed separately. :doh:

I doubt that in the U.S. the police would wait so long to interview them separately, so it's disturbing. However, surely after all the hours of questioning they are unable to completely match their stories. I hope one of them slips up and tells the truth.

I hate to think they did this, but I heard a criminologist speak at length yesterday on MSNBC about the possibility of drugging the children so the parents could go party alone. I have three children and it infuriates me that doctors would do such a thing. It's one of the most selfish things I've ever heard.

I think this thread may be the key to case, because the car is the worst piece of evidence yet. I don't buy the idea that 'someone else' might have used the car. If the parents rented the car, and the child's bodily fluids are in there weeks after she was supposedly "kidnapped," then something is just not right.

We have to remember that this is supposed to be a kidnapping case, and that is based on what the parents told the police to begin with. If they are caught lying now, there is something really wrong with them, and they should be suspects.

 

[angelmom]

Hi angarella

I am colomoms 'freind' - I didn't notice any 'ice machines' near the resort. All the apartments at the OC vary - ours was over two floors so very different to the McC's one but I beleive the facilities inside are about the same, ours had a fridge/freezer and no way would even a small body fit inside one. I have toyed with the idea that they (McC'S) were into their tennis - aren't tennis balls kept at a certain temperature? in an iced container? just how they would have had access to that I really dont know or beleive that would be feasable - I am of the belief that as there is miles and miles of waste/barren scrubland VERY close to the resort - this would be the most feasable method of disposal to me.

I personally feel that at some point Madeleines body was transported in a suitcase, whether that same suitcase was then used to transport their belongings in the back of their hire car to their new apartment - I am not sure... but I sincerely hope that the PJ have checked to see if they are in posession of the same suitcases that they arrived with - I doubt it!!

Somebody mentioned the Tapas staff being able to have been aware of all the comings and goings of the group - I was VERY surprised at how small the Tapas bar was (and the fact that Tapas was not on the menu!!) there was approx 24/30 placed settings (you HAVE to prebook due to limited space) - this was a group of nine, 4 tables would have to have been placed together to accomodate the size of the party, there were two cooks on display in an open air type kitchen preparing the food, there were 3 waiting staff in attendance when we ate there, and it was not full, I would imagine you would have about 1 member of staff attending 3 tables (depending on size) so it would be easy for the staff to be fully aware of the comings and goings.

I do hope this makes sense.

Love to everyone:blowkiss:
Diane

Diane,

Great post. You have light bulbs going off in my head every which way! Although I've never heard of tennis balls being kept cold, I could be wrong. BUT I think the suitcase theory is very interesting.

What if they used the suitcase to hide Maddie? On that first night, the suitcase could have just been placed in the trunk of the car. Or somewhere equally innocuous. While the parents were under quite a bit of scrutiny, I don't think their friends were so much at first.

They could have disposed of Maddie's body as you said, among the caves and rocks, and waited with the suitcase for the right time to dump it. Just in case someone asked them to account for their luggage.

Later, on one of their many jaunts to generate "awareness", how easy would it have been to bring along an extra suitcase and dump that one at the airport before you got on the plane. Or if driving leave it in another city in a dumpster. Wipe it down and how could you ever prove it was theirs? All you have to do is say, "Damn, the handle/wheel/zipper broke, I had to replace it."

As for the car, is it possible that it was rented by one of them but used by all? For the few times they needed one? And then changed over to the McCann's name as people began to go home? Maybe K&G thought that the longer they kept it and used it, the less likely there would be any evidence. Also, if they had it and used it, the easier to explain any traces of Madeline as transfer.

But not blood, and certainly not a cadaver smell.

That poor baby girl. Please God let her be found.

 

[Chanler]

Shazza,
I agree with you. I think that LE has been on them from the very beginning. In America we are so used to getting so much information that some may assume that because P LE has had little to say they must not be doing their job. I believe they are cunning and getting the house in order.

I think that you bring up a good point. The Portuguese legal system is much less informative than our own. In fact, the Brits (who we think of as being secretive) complain about the tight restrictions of the Portuguese system. Of course, this doesn't necessarily make them more competent or less competent than we think; it just leaves us in the dark for longer.

Somebody else brought up a point about cadaver smell: That nauseating scent hits in the first day or two, even earlier in warm climates. Cadaver dogs can pick it up much, much sooner, but not all of them are infallible.

 

[MoonGoddess]

Diane,

Great post. You have light bulbs going off in my head every which way! Although I've never heard of tennis balls being kept cold, I could be wrong. BUT I think the suitcase theory is very interesting.

What if they used the suitcase to hide Maddie? On that first night, the suitcase could have just been placed in the trunk of the car. Or somewhere equally innocuous. While the parents were under quite a bit of scrutiny, I don't think their friends were so much at first.

They could have disposed of Maddie's body as you said, among the caves and rocks, and waited with the suitcase for the right time to dump it. Just in case someone asked them to account for their luggage.

Later, on one of their many jaunts to generate "awareness", how easy would it have been to bring along an extra suitcase and dump that one at the airport before you got on the plane. Or if driving leave it in another city in a dumpster. Wipe it down and how could you ever prove it was theirs? All you have to do is say, "Damn, the handle/wheel/zipper broke, I had to replace it."

As for the car, is it possible that it was rented by one of them but used by all? For the few times they needed one? And then changed over to the McCann's name as people began to go home? Maybe K&G thought that the longer they kept it and used it, the less likely there would be any evidence. Also, if they had it and used it, the easier to explain any traces of Madeline as transfer.

But not blood, and certainly not a cadaver smell.

That poor baby girl. Please God let her be found.

Hi angelmom

I did wonder if they kept M hidden in the locked suitcase whilst the search was going on - who would be looking in there for her? but I dont think they would risk it - I personally feel that this was an accident (bought about by G's temper) they were panic stricken and I feel they would want to hide the evidence asap - as you say - was a car hired that they all had access to? they must have had access at some point during the week as the went to Sagres, from memory that is about a 20/30 minute drive, I also heard (I do accept it could be hearsay!!) but it was a good source - that they were having a 'swinging' time out there - did G still have hold of car keys? even if he didn't - there are many barren spots where you could place a tiny body within walking distance without detection, or did he ask to borrow a car that night to go out and look for her? ... many possible scenarios...

The 'monument' where they have bragged about jogging to in 19 minutes - you can drive most of the way up there - it is mountainous but many parts are covered in dense shrubbery, it is vast - you could 'fling' something downwards and it would be impossible for searchers to get amongst it - I dont know whether the cadavar dogs were taken there - I walked up there on my own around 7pm one night - I was the only one up there - (lol I was cr*pping myself) it is one of the 'things to do' there - IF they had done that during the week - he would have been aware how easy it was to hide a little body - as I believe this was a panicked and unplanned happening - I feel he was thinking on his feet so to speak... (I hope this makes sense)

I honestly believe her little body is laying in remote scrubland quite nearby - I was told by a few people there that if that is the case - unless they admit it - she could never be found - there are also disused 'well systems' within a couple of miles within the resort - God Bless her Darling Heart - I also Pray to God she will be found in order for her to have a proper burial - that really hurts me right now, the thought she is still laying out there.

As for excusing the 'lost' suitcase - he would say they lost it in the confusion - OR it would be easy enough to buy a similar looking one - I am utterly convinced he is not in posession of the same luggage carriers that they arrived with and I wonder why he was seen leaving the new apartment with a bucket and spade for the twins and a suitcase 3 days after Maddie went missing? (Times Online - I'll try and find the link if you need me to)

God help them:furious:

edited with link:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1752277.ece

From The Sunday Times
May 6, 2007


McCann and his wife, both 39, yesterday walked hand in hand through the apartment complex. They had lunch with the twins at the same tapas bar as the evening before. McCann returned alone to the apartment, emerging with a suitcase and a bucket and spade for the twins.

 

[CaliKid]

Oh Diane, how nice to see and hear from you again. I should've known it was you who went to Portugal.

I'd like to ask if you visited the PDL church while you were there. If so, do you know if has a cemetary inside?

GM made a big deal in asking for a priest at 4:30 on May 4, early in the morning after Madeleine went missing. The McCanns were also given the key to the chapel to use when they wanted for "private time". I'm wondering if they could've buried her there?

 

[MoonGoddess]

Oh Diane, how nice to see and hear from you again. I should've known it was you who went to Portugal.

I'd like to ask if you visited the PDL church while you were there. If so, do you know if has a cemetary inside?

GM made a big deal in asking for a priest at 4:30 on May 4, early in the morning after Madeleine went missing. The McCanns were also given the key to the chapel to use when they wanted for "private time". I'm wondering if they could've buried her there?

Hi CaliKid:blowkiss:

Its nice to be back - I have struggled very badly emotionally/spiritually with all this...

I did spend a fair amount of time in the Church praying for Madeleine CaliKid... there is not a 'cemetary' there - the Church was a lot smaller than I imagined - there is a small garden on the left hand side of the Church - whether there is a 'vault' inside I really dont know... there is a cemetary about half a mile up the road - I didn't go there, I just passed by it - I am not at all sure how big it was tbh (being a bit 'sensitive' I try to avoid cemetary's!!)

As for him needing to see a Priest at that time, I dont know Cali - I personally feel, in his deranged mind - maybe he needed to 'feel' close to 'source'? (I think possibly Kate had sent him to fetch him?) I dont personally feel that he would have confessed to anyone - I think it would be incredibly hard for him to have carried on this act knowing that a man of the cloth was aware?... I know some go with theories of the Priesthood somehow being involved?... I dont think so?

I personally think only the two of them are in on it - my concious mind just cannot comprehend that they could have acted it all out to this degree if ANYONE else was in on it... I just cant comprehend that - I think they have duped EVERYONE - I think they are deranged enough to have convinced themselves - what a terrible, terrible state of affairs...

I found it incomprehensable how they were still dropping the kids off at the Kids Club everyday - I didn't see them (my son did) and other guests said how they had seen them sitting by the pool etc - how could you carry on life as usual IF your child had been abducted so close by they pass that apartment everyday - they are very sick individuals IMHO.

Diane

 

[angelmom]

Oh Diane, how nice to see and hear from you again. I should've known it was you who went to Portugal.

I'd like to ask if you visited the PDL church while you were there. If so, do you know if has a cemetary inside?

GM made a big deal in asking for a priest at 4:30 on May 4, early in the morning after Madeleine went missing. The McCanns were also given the key to the chapel to use when they wanted for "private time". I'm wondering if they could've buried her there?

I cannot imagine any priest (or other stranger) would help them cover up a murder or accidental death, especially a priest who did not know GM from Adam. What motive would the priest have for doing such a thing?

However, I can imagine an overwhelming need to see a priest whether innocent or guilty. If innocent, I would be begging for him to pray for her to be found safely, to activate any sort of "prayer chain" or other group that might help, and to console me. If guilty I can imagine one or both of them feeling the need to "confess" - not that they'd literally confess, but that they might tell the priest, "It's all my fault. We shouldn't have left her!" and have him give them absolution.

It doesn't really work that way, but I can imagine those thoughts rolling around in the head of a devout Catholic after an accidental death, especially.

ETA: OR, maybe they just thought that's what an innocent person would do. Hmmm...

I wish they could get EQUU Search or a similar type of team there to do an all-terrain search for her body. I am astonished that this has not been done, especially if the caves and wells are as near the resort as Diane reports. I had pictured them farther off, a good drive.

 

[Salem]

Okay - I have to put this out there. How long was it before the Dutch physic said Maddie was in the field? Is this when the McCanns rented the car and went and got Maddie, moving her before someone actually found her?

Just my opinion and question......

Salem

 

[MoonGoddess]

I cannot imagine any priest (or other stranger) would help them cover up a murder or accidental death, especially a priest who did not know GM from Adam. What motive would the priest have for doing such a thing?

However, I can imagine an overwhelming need to see a priest whether innocent or guilty. If innocent, I would be begging for him to pray for her to be found safely, to activate any sort of "prayer chain" or other group that might help, and to console me. If guilty I can imagine one or both of them feeling the need to "confess" - not that they'd literally confess, but that they might tell the priest, "It's all my fault. We shouldn't have left her!" and have him give them absolution.

It doesn't really work that way, but I can imagine those thoughts rolling around in the head of a devout Catholic after an accidental death, especially.

ETA: OR, maybe they just thought that's what an innocent person would do. Hmmm...

I wish they could get EQUU Search or a similar type of team there to do an all-terrain search for her body. I am astonished that this has not been done, especially if the caves and wells are as near the resort as Diane reports. I had pictured them farther off, a good drive.

Thats what I was trying to say angelmom - I think they have probably sat in Church and tried to plea bargain with God, even getting involved in Child Welfare issues as a kind of penance... I thought it interesting that Kate said to the Pope... along the lines of 'please pray for Madeleine Holy Father' - not 'please pray that our child be returned' or suchlike - it was like she was asking him to pray for her soul... just IMHO of course...

They would do better to confess and allow their child a proper burial...

 

[BirdieBoo]

The way I see it, there are a few possible solutions in no particular order of my preference:

1: There was no blood, this was a police ploy used to obtain a confession

2: There is a shortage of rental cars and the car had been previously used by the "real killer" in commission of the crime

3: The blood was planted by the "real killer"

4: The parents killed Madeleine and used the car to transport her body

5: There was blood transfer from an item the parents had in their posession

Personally I have always thought Madeleine was dead and the parents did it from day 1. Their story about leaving the children alone & Madeleine disappearing is too far-fetched for their socioeconomic status. I might believe it if we were talking about a couple of teenage parents living in a slum (not that all economically-challenged teenage parents would do this) but not a well-heeled pair of doctors on a resort holiday. They could easily afford child care.

 

[angelmom]

Thats what I was trying to say angelmom - I think they have probably sat in Church and tried to plea bargain with God, even getting involved in Child Welfare issues as a kind of penance... I thought it interesting that Kate said to the Pope... along the lines of 'please pray for Madeleine Holy Father' - not 'please pray that our child be returned' or suchlike - it was like she was asking him to pray for her soul... just IMHO of course...

They would do better to confess and allow their child a proper burial...

EXACTLY.