Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[UncoolNegated]

Actually a Grand Jury heard testimony for months and voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey on 2 counts each. Child abuse and coverup. They heard everything including all evidence about an intruder. Burke Ramsey testified and so did Doug Stine. John and Patsy did not. There is no evidence of an intruder. None.

But the crime scene was not secured for several hours after the original phone call to the police at 545 AM. So any trace evidence of an intruder could easily have been affected by all of the traffic in and out of the home. A lot of people were in and out of the house before the crime scene was secured.

Also, the chance that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note is considered to be low based on handwriting analysis. It's not John Ramsey's handwriting. That means it almost certainly must have been written by someone else. And the pen and notepad for the writing were from inside the house. To think that there was no intruder, you have to think that it's Patsy's handwriting despite the low probability of that. Or you have to think that the notepad and pen were taken outside of the house to a third party who wrote the note and then Patsy or John placed it there. All to kill their six-year-old child?

It's fanciful to think like that. What makes a lot more sense is that the intruder wrote the note as a diversion, killed JonBenet, and then the trace evidence of his intrusion was simply eliminated by all the people who entered the house before the police realized the totality of the crime scene and secured it accordingly.

Screenshots are from "Introduction to Forensic Science" by Roderick Bates at Coursera.

 

[Linda7NJ]

To see the sheer preposterous notion an intruder did it, work it the other way.
An intruder stalked the Ramseys, breaks in, the intent to kidnap?
An intruder stalked the Ramsey’s, breaks in, to sexually abuse Jonbenet?
In both scenarios, getting the child OUT OF THE HOUSE is the ideal.
Why write the three page ransome note and when exactly was it left on those stairs? Because that too is incredibly unnecessarily dangerous.


A stun gun was NOT used. I’m annoyed it’s still being even suggested.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's just a TV series, right? It's not an actual trial. Since when did TV series ever portray all the evidence?

Obviously, if people are that passionately committed to one opinion, they're never going to budge from it, no matter what.

JMO

I’d be more than happy to budge, it will however take EVIDENCE to get me there.

 

[Tricia]

What are the credentials of Roderick Bates? The only thing I can find is a man with the same name who is an organic chemist originally and now teaches at Singapore University? I think that is an online University but I am not sure.

I’d be more than happy to budge, it will however take EVIDENCE to get me there.

THANK YOU Linda7NJ

 

[Tricia]

What are the credentials of Roderick Bates? The only thing I can find is a man with the same name who is an organic chemist originally and now teaches at Singapore University? I think that is an online University but I am not sure.
When I have time over the weekend I am going to post some of forensic handwriting expert Cina Wong's comparisons of Patsy's writing to the ransom note. It is incredible. Here is her webpage. Scroll down for a short list of some of her clients.

Forensic Handwriting Expert & Document Examiner | Cina Wong

Cina Wong is a Court-Qualified Forensic Document Examiner and Handwriting Expert with extensive analysis experience in forensic document examination.

cinawongforgeryexpert.com

 

[Linda7NJ]

I haven’t watched it yet. Are these things being left out to be presented in Episode 2/3 or is it being dropped?
Was it just the families wealth that saved them from being prosecuted originally or a combination of wealth, connections & LE botching the investigation? If this was an inside job why is JR asking for dna on whatever he wants tested? Does he know it isn’t related to the crime or something else?
It’s been so long, I’m interested in what you & Tricia have to say.

In my opinion, it was the combination of everything you mentioned. The biggest mistake, not separating John, Patsy and Burke immediately and locking them into statements.

That DNA wasn’t secret, it was degraded. Not even enough to put into CODIS without bumping it. John knows this.
The touch DNA is a mixture from more than one source.
The nail clippers, they were proven to be contaminated if I recall correctly making anything obtained worthless.

This was never a DNA case, John knows it.
It’s the RAMSEY’s reasonable doubt.
The odds of finding a source of that DNA is a killzillion to none. JonBenet hadn’t been recently bathed, she herself could have picked it up anywhere.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What are the credentials of Roderick Bates? The only thing I can find is a man with the same name who is an organic chemist originally and now teaches at Singapore University? I think that is an online University but I am not sure.
When I have time over the weekend I am going to post some of forensic handwriting expert Cina Wong's comparisons of Patsy's writing to the ransom note. It is incredible. Here is her webpage. Scroll down for a short list of some of her clients.

Forensic Handwriting Expert & Document Examiner | Cina Wong

Cina Wong is a Court-Qualified Forensic Document Examiner and Handwriting Expert with extensive analysis experience in forensic document examination.

cinawongforgeryexpert.com

Wong’s presentation makes it blatantly obvious even to none experts there’s no way Patsy can be ruled out.

 

[Tricia]

Click on THIS LINK. It takes you to a Websleuths thread that has a PDF of Cina Wong's work.

 

[asmi106082]

To see the sheer preposterous notion an intruder did it, work it the other way.
An intruder stalked the Ramseys, breaks in, the intent to kidnap?
An intruder stalked the Ramsey’s, breaks in, to sexually abuse Jonbenet?
In both scenarios, getting the child OUT OF THE HOUSE is the ideal.
Why write the three page ransome note and when exactly was it left on those stairs? Because that too is incredibly unnecessarily dangerous.


A stun gun was NOT used. I’m annoyed it’s still being even suggested.

IMO

This could easily be explained away. If there were some sicko stalking her, he could have planned to kidnap her but unintentionally killed her before being able to get her out. For example, he could have been scared when she screamed and suffocated her or anything like that. In that case, he might have brought the note because the original plan was to kidnap her for ransom but something went wrong with the plan.
I don’t think a grown man would need a stun gun to subdue a child. I don’t know if that’s what you mean by stun gun?

MOO but it’s very telling that there is unknown male DNA in her panties. That couldn’t have gotten there by any of the first responders traipsing through the crime scene. So the DNA should tell the story. Why hasn’t it been compared to genealogies?? I would think that this case would’ve been one of the first ones! MOO I don’t think John had anything to do with it unless he was somehow made an unwitting target.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This could easily be explained away. If there were some sicko stalking her, he could have planned to kidnap her but unintentionally killed her before being able to get her out. For example, he could have been scared when she screamed and suffocated her or anything like that. In that case, he might have brought the note because the original plan was to kidnap her for ransom but something went wrong with the plan.
I don’t think a grown man would need a stun gun to subdue a child. I don’t know if that’s what you mean by stun gun?

MOO but it’s very telling that there is unknown male DNA in her panties. That couldn’t have gotten there by any of the first responders traipsing through the crime scene. So the DNA should tell the story. Why hasn’t it been compared to genealogies?? I would think that this case would’ve been one of the first ones! MOO I don’t think John had anything to do with it unless he was somehow made an unwitting target.

It’s not much of a “plan” if the ransom note was written with Patsy’s pen on Patsy’s paper.

If it was written while awaiting for the Ramseys to return home, before killing her. Why sneak back upstairs, risk being caught, to leave the three page ransom letter?

 

[abyquinn]

Click on THIS LINK. It takes you to a Websleuths thread that has a PDF of Cina Wong's work.

I couldn’t get the PDF to open further than answering ‘yes’. Is it me? Also a 404 message on the show.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Didn’t work for me either

Found this for you though

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/handwriting-expert-says-jonbenet-ramseys-mum-patsy-wrote-the-ransom-note-found-at-murder-scene/news-story/75218e2316f4f916bbd28f297799563a

 

[Tricia]

Hi everyone
I will fix this later

 

[Linda7NJ]

Didn’t work for me either

Found this for you though

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/67/07/66635918-E488-45DF-BB56-1B4A05BC4099/Daily-Press-Expert-Writes-Final-Chapter.pdf

 

[Linda7NJ]

Handwriting expert says author stole her JonBenet Ramsey work

By TIM McGLONE The Virginian-Pilot NORFOLK – Dueling handwriting experts will square off in federal court here today over allegations that one stole the other’s analysis of the JonBenet…

www.pilotonline.com

 

[thref23]

I think this is it

 

[Cedars]

he could have planned to kidnap her but unintentionally killed her before being able to get her out.

RSBM

I think the idea that the ransom note was ever intended or written as a 'real' ransom note, can surely be put aside.

Whoever wrote it - it is a farce of a note, as is obvious from reading it. Most importantly, the body was left behind, so no actual kidnapping happened.

I think when asking 'why' about the note, it's no easier to explain why Patsy would write it, as to why an intruder would.

Maybe to delay discovery, sow confusion with police? It was very effective in that.

And it's possible an intruder thought: maybe I could get some money out of this or This will be extra torture to JR, thinking he can save his child when she's already dead.

Or, perhaps to try to disguise the sexual motive for the crime.

It is interesting when you remember there are some killers who liked to communicate; Son of Sam left a childish story about himself at a crime scene, Gary Ridgeway sent a note to police with both true and false details (apparently police dismissed it), DC sniper made outrageous demands for money.

JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Currently watching the Netflix series. Mr HKP has v little knowledge of the case and is convinced so far it was an intruder. He’s thinking it’s outrageous how badly the family were treated and is calling LE all the names! I’ve stayed quiet so far because it’s interesting to see his reaction, but wow are we due an enlightening conversation once we’ve finished watching.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

RSBM

I think the idea that the ransom note was ever intended or written as a 'real' ransom note, can surely be put aside.

Whoever wrote it - it is a farce of a note, as is obvious from reading it. Most importantly, the body was left behind, so no actual kidnapping happened.

I think when asking 'why' about the note, it's no easier to explain why Patsy would write it, as to why an intruder would.

Maybe to delay discovery, sow confusion with police? It was very effective in that.

And it's possible an intruder thought: maybe I could get some money out of this or This will be extra torture to JR, thinking he can save his child when she's already dead.

Or, perhaps to try to disguise the sexual motive for the crime.

It is interesting when you remember there are some killers who liked to communicate; Son of Sam left a childish story about himself at a crime scene, Gary Ridgeway sent a note to police with both true and false details (apparently police dismissed it), DC sniper made outrageous demands for money.

JMO

For me, the only credible explanation for the note is that someone wanted to introduce an outsider to the narrative, and an explanation for her death that didn’t involve anyone known to her.

The Netflix series presenting that an intruder was waiting inside and had time to go through John’s paperwork which is how they came up with the £118k is

For an intruder to have written it, they would have had to either write it whilst hiding (presumably in darkness) and waiting for the family to return, or after committing the crime (in darkness) - at which point their priority would have been to get the heck out of there. Why take a while writing a note, to buy themselves time? That makes zero sense.

It’s also really interesting that some words are misspelled - business for instance, whereas others which could be tricky are correct - adequate, foreign. I know this has all been discussed extensively but from a very slanted (IMO) series, these points still cannot help but jump out.

 

[docyabut]

How does our law take the male`s DNA found on JonBenét to the Philippines and test the male`s DNA in the Philippines Criminal DATABASE DNA ?

The Philippines does have three DNA laboratories that perform forensic DNA testing for criminal investigations

Senate approves CREATE MORE, PNP DNA Database, amendments to RTL | Philippine News Agency

MANILA – Three national bills were approved Monday by the Senate. These were the Corporate Recovery and Tax Incentives for Enterprises to Maximize Opportunities for Reinvigorating the Economy (CREATE MORE) Act, Philippine National Police (PNP) Forensic DNA Database Act, and proposed amendments…

www.pna.gov.ph