Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

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My God. What parent upon finding their little girl mortally wounded, perhaps comatose, would decide that staging a SA on the child would be a logical, sane idea?
My apologies if I misread or misunderstood the post. It's late and I'm tired.
But omg!
Respectfully, and sadly, IMO these threads are loaded with cases where actions or inactions are not logical. And it is often seen that panic, confusion, and hysteria can lead to further scenarios that are neither logical nor rational. Unfortunately since it is quite likely the public does not have access to all details in this case including unreleased GJ testimony - it may not be possible to know exactly what occurred or didn’t occur. Nor what led to the death of JBR.

And from what I have seen released and available thus far in this case, if one did not have confidence in the Boulder DA office to solve this case and obtain justice for the death of JBR - I would not disagree with that assessment. MOO
 
Yes, they were size 12 day of the week underwear from Bloomingdale’s. JonBenet had them in her own size and loved them. According to Patsy, she had bought the size 12 package for her niece, but JonBenet supposedly wanted those too, in addition to the ones she had in her own size. So Patsy let her have them. The package with the rest of the underwear (other days of the week) were never found.
Thank you so much. As I said I do not know why that detail was bothering me but it was, probably because I couldn't remember the details.
 
There were two bloodstains on JBR’s undergarments. The first stain that was tested in January 1996 yield DNA tests results that indicated that they were from an unknown male but the sample was too small to provide a complete DNA profile. In agreement to Dr. Lee’s findings and support from Dr. Baden investigators theorized that it was possible that the DNA may have incidentally originated from a factory worker or employee that worked with the undergarment’s manufacturer and thus may possibly not be related at all to the crime.

In 1999, DA Morissey submitted to CBI the cut portion of JBR’s underwear that contained the second blood stain for DNA testing. This sample yielded a complete DNA profile of the unknown male DNA that could also be submitted to CODIS.

In 2008, upon request of the DA office that was in charge of JonBenet investigation at the time, touch DNA found on JBR’s long johns also matched the DNA found in her underwear. According to Dr. Williams




The DNA found and tested under JBR’s fingernails matched DNA found under her left and right fingernails. Their tests results indicated they came from an unknown male.

DNA may not necessarily solve the case or can have alternative explanations, as described upon by Dr. Michael Baden, nonetheless it is still just one more forensic and investigative tool that may be helpful and is available to LE to use at their disposal, as indicated by Boulder police who in 2021 indicated they looked forward to taking advantage of new technology advances that may lead to DNA help LE solve or bring closure to the case.


Rbm.
Gbm.
Thanks for the interesting information !

Red bolded : If she was killed by an intruder how would their dna have been left on the long johns, as she was found with the touch dna in the too-large underwear ?
Did the intruder go upstairs initially, and then re-dress her after her death ?
Not sure I agree with Dr. Williams in his assessment.

Green bolded : I am assuming you meant the dna from her underwear matched what was under her fingernails ; as I'd asked about the underwear dna ?
Also curious about the mention above of "Frankenstein" dna as it was a large mixture of several donors, and thus not necessarily only an unknown male ?
Imo.
 
Anyone who watched the police video of that house from the night of the crime would immediately realize that only someone intimately familiar with that home could have navigated their way through that dark, twisting staircase and confusing layout, not to even mention the remote, dark unused room that little JB was found in.

a stranger couldn't have made his way in that dark, rambling home
Just as a comment on this part of your post in particular, consider that IF there had been a stranger in their house that night, it's been suggested that he may have been there all by himself for many hours while the family was all away from the house. He would have had time to explore the entire home, and he may have noticed that little room in the basement. Then, later, when everything got out of control, and he needed to find somewhere secret to hide her body since he didn't want to risk being seen leaving the house with her, he may have remembered that little room he had found earlier.
 
One tic tocker named the DNA in the JBR case “Frankenstein DNA”
Because of all the mix..

I can’t get over the lack of identifiable DNA anywhere on the garrote handle, cord or wrist ligature, It’s all a mix.
Do you think there were gloves involved?
I take that to mean there is no strong single male dna that's useable ?
Imo.
 
Respectfully, and sadly, IMO these threads are loaded with cases where actions or inactions are not logical. And it is often seen that panic, confusion, and hysteria can lead to further scenarios that are neither logical nor rational. Unfortunately since it is quite likely the public does not have access to all details in this case including unreleased GJ testimony - it may not be possible to know exactly what occurred or didn’t occur. Nor what led to the death of JBR.

And from what I have seen released and available thus far in this case, if one did not have confidence in the Boulder DA office to solve this case and obtain justice for the death of JBR - I would not disagree with that assessment. MOO
The wealthy are treated much differently than the rest of us and that is wrong and not how it is supposed to be.
Rule of law is supposed to apply to everyone equally, but as we are painfully aware that isn't true.
Justice is for sell in this country and a person with enough money can buy their way out of anything.
I will always believe JR SA his daughter that night and he hurt her, hurt her badly enough to make her cry and he could not calm her down or make her be quiet.
JR wasn't about to be exposed for what he is to Patsy or anyone. He had to make certain that JB would never be able to tell anyone the truth about her sick father and what he did to her.
He should be in prison but he has never and will never be held accountable for JB.
Patsy had to know at least on some subconscious level. We will never know. Maybe her lifestyle was more important to her than justice for JB. I'm truly not trying to judge her, I would just like to what she knew it what she felt about JR, if she ever suspected him.
 
Just as a comment on this part of your post in particular, consider that IF there had been a stranger in their house that night, it's been suggested that he may have been there all by himself for many hours while the family was all away from the house. He would have had time to explore the entire home, and he may have noticed that little room in the basement. Then, later, when everything got out of control, and he needed to find somewhere secret to hide her body since he didn't want to risk being seen leaving the house with her, he may have remembered that little room he had found earlier.
But how would a stranger have known about the staircase? The killer knew where to leave that ransom note so it would be the first thing PR saw that morning.
How would a stranger know that?
 
One tic tocker named the DNA in the JBR case “Frankenstein DNA”
Because of all the mix..

I can’t get over the lack of identifiable DNA anywhere on the garrote handle, cord or wrist ligature, It’s all a mix.
Do you think there were gloves involved?
I think your point is completely valid and it shows why it is so understandable that people, including investigators and pathologists, question the validity or reliability of the DNA evidence.

I am definitely not a DNA or genealogical expert but I too was surprised not only by the lack of identifiable DNA on the ligatures and garrotes and that neither the Ramseys or UM1 were found on them. I can’t begin to comprehend how to explain that but I hope to find some info on what, if any experts, or facilities might provide as plausible explanations or the future of DNA testing in this case going forward.

I always assumed that the perp, whoever they may be, wore gloves even though LE hasn’t made such statements that the killer wore such themselves. So unfortunately there is no real basis for this theory except my assumption that they would want to avoid leaving fingerprints and such behind at the crime scene by using them (of course perhaps it is also that instead wiped or cleaned the items down afterwards?) I also think of how the OJ Simpson trial wrapped not too long before and the importance that gloves played in that case and how it would have further brought to the forefront of the killer’s mind the advantage or importance of wearing them if they weren’t considering it already.
 
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Arndt really got a raw deal. Her field of expertise in LE was SA cases. She was there at ground zero. Her opinions and observations, and intuitive feelings are very important. Even though it was Christmas, still hard to believe she was the only LE person on scene. And when did the coroner arrive? 7:30 pm??
Bbm.
About that bolded :


"Patrol Officer Richard French got to the home of John and Patsy Ramsey .....It was 5:52am...
Something seemed odd to French, and later he would recall how the grieving mother's eyes stayed riveted on him.
He remembered her gaze, and her awkward attempt to conceal it---peering at him through splayed fingers held over her eyes."
" Later, French recalled that the couple had barely spoken to or looked at each other. Though they were faced with the most calamitous tragedy of their lives, he did not see them console each other..."


At this time, I'm mainly wanting to know about the reactions of the first responders to that scene.
There is much more at the link including the names of the friends who were awakened by John R. at 5:55 am and told to hurry over.

Question : Were the friends mainly sequestered to one room or did they try to find JB and walked around ?
Asking because they could have contaminated the crime scene.
Arndt didn't arrive until 8:10 am.

As time passes recollections may fade or change somewhat and tbh there aren't that many articles that explain what the first people there saw or heard.
Imo.
 
I respect your opinion, but given the crime, if BDI were found to be guilty back then, there is just no way he would be released into society without some incredible amount of discernment from the courts. I have no idea what would’ve happened legally, but he would have a price to pay. If nothing else to protect the public in case his personality was a danger to society. How would maturing into adulthood with that kind of history do to a person? The crime, whether accident or not, is a symptom. Accidents don’t just happen. They are caused.

In any event, experts would probably have been consulted on what to do, and that would have been in the courts to decide in relation to the laws and Burkes freedom. But get off free? No way.
Maybe lifetime probation..,,
Not necessarily. He could not be even considered in a court of law due to his age. The other thing to consider is was he already under a doctor's care. Did he have a diagnosis of a emotional or behavioral issue that would have made him not responsible in addition to his age and lastly if BR was responsible, I would bet every aspect was worked out behind closed doors. There may have been stipulations but again, you couldn't out the child's identity to the public as he couldn't be criminally responsible.
I'm sorry, but none of this is even remotely believable to me, as far as what they would have been most likely to do in the event of a severe injury, by any means, to one of their children.

In general, if a child is injured at home and is unconscious, a parent will call 911 or take them to a hospital ASAP. As everyone knows. And I see no reason to believe they would have done anything different, no matter what, much less done all this elaborate staging/garotting/sexual abuse/body-hiding/ransom note/fake kidnapping report extravaganza as people accuse them of doing. I find that absurd and think it's bizarre that so many people think it.
Probably you are a very nice person whose exposure to the horrible actions of humans is very limited.
You can't imagine a scenerio where a father is doing unspeakable things to his daughter and kills her.
911, what's your emergency?
Or your son ties up his sister to get a better look but instead she screams and he panics.
911 what's your emergency?
I come from a LE family. Most cops have stories that will make you question humanity. The Boogey man looks like Ted Bundy not Freddy Kruger.
 
Not necessarily. He could not be even considered in a court of law due to his age. The other thing to consider is was he already under a doctor's care. Did he have a diagnosis of a emotional or behavioral issue that would have made him not responsible in addition to his age and lastly if BR was responsible, I would bet every aspect was worked out behind closed doors. There may have been stipulations but again, you couldn't out the child's identity to the public as he couldn't be criminally responsible.

Probably you are a very nice person whose exposure to the horrible actions of humans is very limited.
You can't imagine a scenerio where a father is doing unspeakable things to his daughter and kills her.
911, what's your emergency?
Or your son ties up his sister to get a better look but instead she screams and he panics.
911 what's your emergency?
I come from a LE family. Most cops have stories that will make you question humanity. The Boogey man looks like Ted Bundy not Freddy Kruger.
That would not apply to the situation if one of the parents actually inflicted the fatal injuries to their child, which sadly we all know happens so very often.
 
That would not apply to the situation if one of the parents actually inflicted the fatal injuries to their child, which sadly we all know happens so very often.
My apologies, my response was meant for the poster above your comment.
 
The wealthy are treated much differently than the rest of us and that is wrong and not how it is supposed to be.
Rule of law is supposed to apply to everyone equally, but as we are painfully aware that isn't true.
Justice is for sell in this country and a person with enough money can buy their way out of anything.
I will always believe JR SA his daughter that night and he hurt her, hurt her badly enough to make her cry and he could not calm her down or make her be quiet.
JR wasn't about to be exposed for what he is to Patsy or anyone. He had to make certain that JB would never be able to tell anyone the truth about her sick father and what he did to her.
He should be in prison but he has never and will never be held accountable for JB.
Patsy had to know at least on some subconscious level. We will never know. Maybe her lifestyle was more important to her than justice for JB. I'm truly not trying to judge her, I would just like to what she knew it what she felt about JR, if she ever suspected him.




That’s why these forums are so important. Information, misinformation, debate, discovery, connections, resources. Invaluable.
Not necessarily. He could not be even considered in a court of law due to his age. The other thing to consider is was he already under a doctor's care. Did he have a diagnosis of a emotional or behavioral issue that would have made him not responsible in addition to his age and lastly if BR was responsible, I would bet every aspect was worked out behind closed doors. There may have been stipulations but again, you couldn't out the child's identity to the public as he couldn't be criminally responsible.

Probably you are a very nice person whose exposure to the horrible actions of humans is very limited.
You can't imagine a scenerio where a father is doing unspeakable things to his daughter and kills her.
911, what's your emergency?
Or your son ties up his sister to get a better look but instead she screams and he panics.
911 what's your emergency?
I come from a LE family. Most cops have stories that will make you question humanity. The Boogey man looks like Ted Bundy not Freddy Kruger.
<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
 
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I think your point is completely valid and it shows why it is so understandable that people, including investigators and pathologists, question the validity or reliability of the DNA evidence.

I am definitely not a DNA or genealogical expert but I too was surprised not only by the lack of identifiable DNA on the ligatures and garrotes and that neither the Ramseys or UM1 were found on them. I can’t begin to comprehend how to explain that but I hope to find some info on what, if any experts, or facilities might provide as plausible explanations or the future of DNA testing in this case going forward.

I always assumed that the perp, whoever they may be, wore gloves even though LE hasn’t made such statements that the killer wore such themselves. So unfortunately there is no real basis for this theory except my assumption that they would want to avoid leaving fingerprints and such behind at the crime scene by using them (of course perhaps it is also that instead wiped or cleaned the items down afterwards?) I also think of how the OJ Simpson trial wrapped not too long before and the importance that gloves played in that case and how it would have further brought to the forefront of the killer’s mind the advantage or importance of wearing them if they weren’t considering it already.
I googled all variations of “can you remove DNA from a nylon cord”
The short answer is no unless you have the special DNA removal solution. Or soap and water….
An expert would be great on this question.

Of interest is what was identified internally upon JBR autopsy- the “birefringent material” most often attributed to lacquered shards from the paintbrush but also attributed forensically to talc, commonly found on gloves…
(Dr Cyril Wecht)
 
Green bolded : I am assuming you meant the dna from her underwear matched what was under her fingernails ; as I'd asked about the underwear dna ?
Yes, sorry for the typo!

As you correctly noted, I meant to write to write that the DNA from her underwear matched the DNA found underneath her right and left fingernails. Thanks!
Red bolded : If she was killed by an intruder how would their dna have been left on the long johns, as she was found with the touch dna in the too-large underwear ?
Did the intruder go upstairs initially, and then re-dress her after her death ?
Not sure I agree with Dr. Williams in his assessment.

From what I understand from Dr. Williamson’s findings, based on DNA evidence an unknown male had made contact with JBR’s underwear where her blood stains were located and that based on touch DNA that same unknown male likely pulled down her long johns and at some point redressed her since she was found with her this pair of clothes back on. According to CNN, in 2008, DNA evidence was found around the waistband of the long johns which perhaps further supports Dr. Williamson’s theory. Dr. Williamson seems to imply the aforementioned areas on the long johns are places where a perpetrator or sexual predator would touch as they carried out this sexual assault and that this predator is both responsible for JBR’s brutal sexual assault and murder. As of now, she identifies this assailant as unknown male and it appears IMO that after evaluating Williamson’s findings with other evidence gathered from the investigation, DA Lacy agreed with this theory and decided to exonerate PR and JR.

Like you though DA Garrett did not agree with her decision and he provided some valid or insightful reasons for why to CNN during an interview.

Unfortunately, DA Lacy didn’t necessarily provide a full theory for how she thought the crime was carried out but it does seem she agree with Williamson that an intruder, an some unknown male, undressed and redressed JBR as in the time period that they carried out their sexual assault before fleeing the scene of the crime and abandoning JBR.

JonBenet Ramsey: What we know about the child beauty queen’s death, the botched investigation and decades of mystery | CNN


 
It’s 28 years of “fixing” that fiasco”
Got that right!

Years ago, I distinctly remember one of the tabloids lead stories concerned the sorority sisters at the university his eldest daughter at attended. They were claiming that Beth had told them she was going to confront her dad about his SA, right before she was killed,
Cannot find that tabloid copy anywhere…
…but there was a small article about detectives talking to at least two sorority members, maybe more for an undisclosed reason, from her university in Ohio.(SFG 2/21/97)

Smoke??
I remember hearing rumblings also. I never knew whether they held any weight or not. We also have the boating story of JARs plot to have JBR killed I believe in a boating mishap.
WTH! There's a whole Lotta WTFs surrounding the family if these are true. I always thought JR pushed a narrative ect but one day it struck me how I all of a sudden saw the same type of behavior of a narcissist I had the misfortune of knowing and then I couldn't unsee it. It reminded me of an article I read about corporate psychopaths or something...There's something so arrogant about the gaslighting. Crazy enough, he wasn't my first or second suspect but maybe the apple didn't fall from the tree.
Who knows!!
 
I remember hearing rumblings also. I never knew whether they held any weight or not. We also have the boating story of JARs plot to have JBR killed I believe in a boating mishap.
WTH! There's a whole Lotta WTFs surrounding the family if these are true. I always thought JR pushed a narrative ect but one day it struck me how I all of a sudden saw the same type of behavior of a narcissist I had the misfortune of knowing and then I couldn't unsee it. It reminded me of an article I read about corporate psychopaths or something...There's something so arrogant about the gaslighting. Crazy enough, he wasn't my first or second suspect but maybe the apple didn't fall from the tree.
Who knows!!
His smug entitlement and condescending attitude towards others reveals his narcissism.
He seems so arrogant and cold blooded.
He was truly enraged that LE had the audacity to question him about the murder of his daughter. He thought he was above the law. Disgustingly, he was right.
 
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