FBI considering hate crime charges against Zimmerman #1

Discussion in 'George Zimmerman Trial/Trayvon Martin' started by JBean, May 14, 2012.

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  1. HiHater

    HiHater No justice. No peace.

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    I don't even know how to reply! All of the inaccuracies in this post make it hard to engage? imo
     


  2. pjblack

    pjblack New Member

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    Your question/statement is an overgeneralization. You are not allowing for intervening factors. It is like saying you woke up, you ate, and you slept. What about everything that happened in between?
     
  3. imamaze

    imamaze Former Member

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    BBM...

    How would Crump get GZ if its made racial? I have not ever been in a position where I was racial profiled. Do I think it happens? You bet and I think that is where Crump is coming from. I don't see him overplaying anything. I think it should be investigated as is being done and presented to a jury. I don't see it backfiring though, it should be looked into.

    You asked would I want my neighbor hauled into court for watching white thugs? I don't see anything wrong with 'watching'. Why would anyone follow a ****? I just don't get it. Just call the cops and let them handle it. I have a real problem with GZ following and continuing to follow TM with a gun. Something seriously wrong with that imo.

    Ima
     
  4. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I don't think the FBI cares what Crump has to say. I think the FBI cares about what GZ has had to say in the past and what his past history and interaction with people in the workplace, socially and his history of calling 911 about AA's regarding whether or not those calls were justified. Crump just lodged the complaint in representation of the Martins. They have every right to do so. If GZ is innocent of any wrong doing as far as hate crimes the FBI will finish their report and clear him. If the evidence is there, it's there and they will charge him. They certainly aren't rushing to judgment. jmo
     
  5. HiHater

    HiHater No justice. No peace.

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    Okay, to be a little more clear:

    GZ first profiled Trayvon Martin.
    GZ then followed Trayvon Martin.
    GZ at some point confronted Trayvon Martin.
    GZ assaulted Trayvon Martin.
    GZ killed Trayvon Martin during the process of said assault.

    All moo
     
  6. gator

    gator Inactive

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    BBM. YES. Bravo!!!
     
  7. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    We can argue all day about the crime statisics. You can reject the Reuters article were the AA neighbor says that the "elephant in the living room was Black teen crime." But if those statistics exist and it is even just "teenagers" who were the dominant problem...and PLEASE, they often are statistically...then TM's team has to convince a jury that ONLY RACE MATTERED. Every single one of those jurors will have to buy that and ignore the crime stats.

    As for Crump, he is the face of the Team. I think that he is making signifant errors in "racializing" this trial to the extent he has...and encouraging the family to share their grief at large events pre-trial. It seems to be a PR move that poisons before a jury is set. I do not blame the family...I blame HIM.

    It might just create sympathy for GZ among others if it seems he has this big PR campaign appearing even internationally before he has his day in court. I wonder if Crump has considered that? Maybe Nancy Grace did "Tot Mom" a huge favor.
     
  8. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    A teenager just walking around on a rainy night that is not one of the neighborhood kids can absolutely be considered someone to watch.

    You mean if your neighborhood had all these problems, you would just assume a stranger walking around at night was out for his evening constitutional? Crime does things to its victims. I have traveled with a woman who was raped and I have to walk her to her room , go inside and then walk over there again the next morning. Is that silly for a grown woman?

    No, crime effects how we think. Crime makes us afraid and FEAR makes us look at lots of things differently.
     
  9. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I can agree with most of this up to the port of GZ assaulted TM. I don't think that happened. I think GZ tried to hold onto TM and GZ being the heavier of the two landed on the bottom with GZ getting hurt in the balance. But profiling, absolutely. Gilbreath claimed that in the bond hearing. FBI is still investigating this very issue and whether it could be considered a "hate" crime.

    This is the FBI thread investigating GZ for profiling TM for what could be considered a hate crime. There is no doubt they've established the profiling part because that is clear by the description GZ gives the dispatcher on the tape and in particular making comments to make TM sound more suspicious...something's in his hands (a bag from 7-11), his hand in his waistband (ironically this is where GZ had his gun so what was GZ suggesting), etc. Clearly in GZ's mind he was absolutely sure this kid was a criminal. That is the definition of profiling when you have no reason to believe there was any crime happening at the time, before or after. GZ had "zero" evidence there was a crime, "zero" and even less that one was about to happen. jmo
     
  10. gator

    gator Inactive

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    GZ's actions in no way made the neighborhood safer, and instead added to the crime statistics he was so concerned about. IMO.
     
  11. Maxim

    Maxim New Member

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    Where, which are inaccurate? Many of us heard or read the above.
    Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck ... It's the Profiling Duck!
     
  12. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    Considering GZ knew they had just arrested someone for doing the breakins in the community. If GZ was "affected" by crimes in his neighborhood he should have allowed LE to do there job and should have never chased someone with a gun. I've been a crime victim. I don't chase people down for walking in the rain but then I don't carry a gun. Do you think GZ felt justified in following TM because he had the gun??? Or was it just because TM was black and since the latest arrest was a black kid from the neighborhood this guy must be up to no good? I don't see how it's possible to justify what GZ did. If we are affected that severely by a crime that we are in a constant fear of the unknown the last thing we would need is a gun. Fear makes it easier for us to be mistaken. jmo
     
  13. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    No, believing somene to be a criminal is NOT the definition of "profiling" You have to have come to that conclusion BECAUSE of race or ethnicity. You have to
    have had NO other reasonable explanation.

    GZ had an excellent reason. How unfair to ignore it.

    CRIME is a much bigger deal to just about everybody. People are sick of calling the police and having them arrve late. In order to sell this racial theory, people have to ignore the crime that set the stage in the neighborhood.

    If crime statistics show even just a "teen crime" problem, then this Neighborhood Watch Captain had an excellent other reason. And only one other person on the jury needs to identify with the weariness of constant crime and this emphasis on making this racial will backfire.

    And the chance to make this about SYG instead of race will have been wasted. Because people will stop listening.
     
  14. Maxim

    Maxim New Member

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    No, the dispatcher asked GZ to profile.

    GZ could "follow" if he didn't see, know where TM went. TM ran out of sight.

    Not proven, no one saw this.

    Not proven, no one saw this.

    Yes, GZ shot TM, but there is evidence TM was assaulting GZ.

    All mine are moo2
     
  15. HiHater

    HiHater No justice. No peace.

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    For starters, the picture that was widely circulated in the beginning is from 2010. That would make Trayvon 14 or 15 and not 12. That's your perception of the pic, but it does not make it accurate. The media/race baiters did not allude to GZ being white on a whim--the police report contained that information. I have not heard Zimmerman is black until just now when you posted it. ROFL. At this point, he has changed colors more than Michael Jackson...that I agree with. He is white and his mother is Peruvian. Black is not in that equation, and white is not out of it. Certain groups of people are not immune from being racist though. So regardless of his heritage, his actions will speak for themselves.


    Cant remember what else I was going to type...yikes!
     
  16. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae Well-Known Member

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    bbm, Did GZ profile first or did TM profile first? iirc the g/f said TM told her a white man was following him. jmo
     
  17. HiHater

    HiHater No justice. No peace.

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    Sooooo...the dispatcher actually called GZ, on GZs phone? Otherwise, GZ started the profiling on his own, profiling is what made him call the police.
     
  18. HiHater

    HiHater No justice. No peace.

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    This is just not a logical question at all. In order for Trayvon to say a white man is following him, the white man would have had to have started following him. The white man, we know, was following because he had already profiled Trayvon. As I see it, GZ was aware of Trayvon before Trayvon was aware of him.

    ??
     
  19. Lovelymountains

    Lovelymountains New Member

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    Yes, and IMO the street-level, etc. person would be much more likely to profile and violate the law and in this instance a civil rights protective law than would a highly educated and trained FBI profiler.

    If Trayvon Martin had been white (And I see white teens wearing those pants on the floor, etc. clothing all the time) I don't think that GZ would have looked at him twice. IMO GZ followed and killed TM specifically because he was a black teenager in a place where GZ, the high and mighty, did not allow him to be. Taking one's life is not a minor act and not one which should "Blow over." It is one which should be investigated and the perpetrator should be arrested, tried and convicted if it should prove that the death was not justified and in this case I cannot agree that it was.

    I don't know how many, if any, of our posters are AA, but if there are some, I am willing to bet that they would say that they have not ever in their entire lives had a day when someone did not try to belittle them, descriminate against them, or ignore that they even existed at least once. And I think that if we were willing to face the truth, this cannot be denied.

    Yes, IMO, GZ violated TM's civil rights. TM had a right to peacefully walk down a sidewalk in a communtiy in which he was a guest and not be murdered simply because a person who had a history of violence and illegal acts and was armed with a revolver decided to take it upon himself to teach the intruder a lesson. And in doing that, he took away the future for TM and destroyed the future for his family. And if there is any justice in this world, GZ will have some time in his future to think over his actions while in prison. But at least, GZ has a future.

    It is reported, although the truth of it has not been established, that TM once had a screwdriver in his school bag and many jumped to the conclusion that TM either had, or intended to use that screwdriver as a burglary tool. OK. I contend that George Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and shadowed TM with the INTENT of apprehending him and detaining him until LE arrived. His plans went awry in a most horrible way. Burglary and murder are two different things entirely and the intent to do either is illegal.

    Res IPSA Loquitur
     
  20. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    But WHY did he have to say he was "WHITE?" If I use the some thinking on some posts and reverse it.....it is because TM hates WHITES. WE could then say THAT is why TM attacked GZ....because he hated whites. We could say he thought ALL whites were "weird." We could make TM a racist too. Holler than he would have reacted differently to a BLACK Watch Captain! OMG...WHY would TM profile GZ as "WHITE?"

    Silly, right.

    That is what others say here in reverse with no better proof. This should NOT be about race. And both TM and GZ were "describing" what they saw.
     
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