First advize then advise

How did PR misspell advise in her exemplars?

  • She knowingly misspelled advise.

    Votes: 13 86.7%
  • She knew but later forgot how to spell advise.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • She didn't know how to spell advise correctly.

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15
NO WAY! One time wouldn't do THAT. That's kind of the whole point of the word "erosion": the wearing away of material over time.

What Ames showed you from the autopsy report was just a STARTER. Allow me to quote from my book:

During JonBenet's autopsy, Dr. John Meyer examined her vagina. Here's what he found, from the actual report:

"A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1x1 cm hymeneal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise from between the 2:00 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and the distal right vaginal wall."

Okay, for you regular people, that means that JonBenet's hymen was scratched. It has been established that her vagina was violated the night of her death. But the "1x1 cm hymeneal orifice" is the bell-ringer here. That means that the opening in JonBenet's six-year-old hymen was one centimeter by one centimeter. This is twice the size of a so-called normal hymeneal opening for a girl this age.

The autopsy report shows more than just hymeneal damage. Again, from the report:

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen."

In plain English, that means that JonBenet had old inflammation that had not been allowed to heal. This did not happen all at once. Even more damning is the term "erosion." No point in trying to obfuscate the issue: that means that layers of flesh in JonBenet's vagina had been worn away over time; stripped away by continuous invasion. Old and new vaginal injuries. It couldn't be any plainer than that.

And that's not even mentioning JB's regression in toilet habits or her serious boundary issues!



I don't think you want to KNOW what I think about that little comment.



AH, but that's just it! It's not JUST the chronic inflammation. It's the expanded vaginal size, the lack of hymenal tissue, the erosion of areas normally protected by the hymen, the regression in toilet habits, and the SERIOUS boundary issues.



That's wrong. It's not just wrong, it's an insult.
None of the panel members were associated with the tabloids in ANY way.



:clap: :clap: :clap:



Yes, he should. He'd have us believe that the whole abuse angle was something the tabs dreamed up to sell magazines. Indeed, his repeated assertions about rich family scandals and tabloid-paid doctors are almost exact quotes of what JR has said. Well, I wish like hell it WAS just dreamed up!

Highlighted in blue are your VIEWS not FACTS. Its OK to have views, but people should know thats what they are.

You've no facts that JBR was EVER abused prior to the night she was murdered. You may have indications, but you don't KNOW.

Chronic inflammation is touted by RDI as if it were some huge incriminating revelation, when in reality chronic inflammation is extremely common.

You have no idea that JBR was ever previously abused, let alone being able to pin JBR's injuries on anybody besides the DNA owner. Its not a fact, its a myth presented as fact. There is also no link between 'erosion' and prior abuse except for the imaginary one you provide.

Answer this one question honestly and without evading it: What do you believe is the difference in tabloid sales between 'daddy's secret' and 'child found assaulted and murdered in the basement'? Don't blow this one off, just answer.

ETA: What should be the restitution for all the bad press, if RDI's so-called preferred outcome is proven, that an intruder did it and not the parents?
 
You've no facts that JBR was EVER abused prior to the night she was murdered. You may have indications, but you don't KNOW.

Dr. Cyril Wecht
Dr. David Jones
Dr. James Monteleone, Professor of Pediatrics
Dr. John McCann
Dr. Ronald Wright
All agree that there was chronic abuse, but what do they know?
 
I never read 'eroded hymen', 'sexual abuse', or 'bruising' in the autopsy report. Did somebody make this stuff up in their imagination?

Anyone want to take this for me? I'm tired of going over it.
Both the hymen and the bruising are addressed on page 4 of the autopsy report. The hymenal erosion is described there. The bruising is described as an area of purplish discoloration. That's a bruise. The words "eroded hymen" and "bruising" are not written specifically because they do not need to be. The coroner has described both of these conditions in terms consistent with forensic terminology.


I have already stated, as have others here, that Mayer did not put "sexual assault" in the report. He SHOULD have, though, as Det. Arndt, who was present at the autopsy, reported that Mayer said that the findings in JB's vagina were consistent with digital penetration. No one knows why he did not write that down, choosing instead to discuss it verbally only. I have ideas about why that was, as I am sure do others here.
 
I have already stated, as have others here, that Mayer did not put "sexual assault" in the report. He SHOULD have, though, as Det. Arndt, who was present at the autopsy, reported that Mayer said that the findings in JB's vagina were consistent with digital penetration. No one knows why he did not write that down, choosing instead to discuss it verbally only. I have ideas about why that was, as I am sure do others here.

This is another example of RDI not getting what it wants.

:boohoo:

If only RDI could spin the autopsy report into something else, eh? I already know RDI WANTS to REWRITE the autopsy report to something MORE SUITED to a POV.
 
Anyone want to take this for me? I'm tired of going over it.
Both the hymen and the bruising are addressed on page 4 of the autopsy report. The hymenal erosion is described there. The bruising is described as an area of purplish discoloration. That's a bruise. The words "eroded hymen" and "bruising" are not written specifically because they do not need to be. The coroner has described both of these conditions in terms consistent with forensic terminology.


I have already stated, as have others here, that Mayer did not put "sexual assault" in the report. He SHOULD have, though, as Det. Arndt, who was present at the autopsy, reported that Mayer said that the findings in JB's vagina were consistent with digital penetration. No one knows why he did not write that down, choosing instead to discuss it verbally only. I have ideas about why that was, as I am sure do others here.

There's not one link in anything here to 'prior abuse'. Everything you've posted here relates to injuries from that night.
 
Dr. Cyril Wecht
Dr. David Jones
Dr. James Monteleone, Professor of Pediatrics
Dr. John McCann
Dr. Ronald Wright
All agree that there was chronic abuse, but what do they know?

Uh, I don't know what they do know. What they don't know is that JBR was abused by her parents prior to the night she was murdered. That they don't know.

Aren't some of these tabloid hires? After-the-fact doctors hired by the 'daddy's secret' tabloids who never attended JBR in life or death?
 
Highlighted in blue are your VIEWS not FACTS. Its OK to have views, but people should know thats what they are.

Not ALL of them are just my views. Although, I get what you mean. As I've said many times, those people reading the whole thing will know what is opinion and what is fact.

You've no facts that JBR was EVER abused prior to the night she was murdered. You may have indications, but you don't KNOW.

Now you're talking.

Chronic inflammation is touted by RDI as if it were some huge incriminating revelation, when in reality chronic inflammation is extremely common.

I think we all understand that. This is one instance where you can't point to just one thing and say, "ah, that's it."

You have no idea that JBR was ever previously abused, let alone being able to pin JBR's injuries on anybody besides the DNA owner.

Well, here's how I frame it, HOTYH: I would actually agree with that, at least in part. It's one thing to say that the abuse happened. It's another thing altogether to say who did it.

Its not a fact, its a myth presented as fact.

Could we change that to "a possibility presented as fact"?

There is also no link between 'erosion' and prior abuse except for the imaginary one you provide.

Well, let me ask you this, HOTYH: what else could have caused it? I've heard some pretty inane suggestions.

Answer this one question honestly and without evading it: What do you believe is the difference in tabloid sales between 'daddy's secret' and 'child found assaulted and murdered in the basement'? Don't blow this one off, just answer.

Clever, HOTYH. Turning my "don't wait for the translation; answer me now" on me. Not that I have any reason to honor it, since a LOT of my own efforts are ignored, but I will anyway. I would say quite a lot, for a couple of reasons. Not just the whole class-warfare appeal that you've been hinting at, but because of the need for instant answers. Look, I think you misunderstand me. If you're saying that the tabloids would use that kind of information in whatever way suited them, all hollow protestations of higher purpose be damned, you won't get any argument out of me.

ETA: What should be the restitution for all the bad press, if RDI's so-called preferred outcome is proven, that an intruder did it and not the parents?

Wow. That's the big question, isn't it? That's the question that keeps me awake at night, HOTYH. I don't even know if something like that CAN be made up for. I'm at a loss to think of anything.
 
Anyone want to take this for me? I'm tired of going over it.

Have no fear, SuperDave is here!

No one knows why he did not write that down, choosing instead to discuss it verbally only. I have ideas about why that was, as I am sure do others here.

The most likely explanation was that he didn't want to give away too much before he had to appear in court.

HoldontoyourHat said:
I already know RDI WANTS to REWRITE the autopsy report to something MORE SUITED to a POV.

Pardon my language, but just what the he** are you talking about?

Aren't some of these tabloid hires? After-the-fact doctors hired by the 'daddy's secret' tabloids who never attended JBR in life or death?

Only ONE was tabloid-related in any way.
 
Clever, HOTYH. Turning my "don't wait for the translation; answer me now" on me. Not that I have any reason to honor it, since a LOT of my own efforts are ignored, but I will anyway. I would say quite a lot, for a couple of reasons. Not just the whole class-warfare appeal that you've been hinting at, but because of the need for instant answers. Look, I think you misunderstand me. If you're saying that the tabloids would use that kind of information in whatever way suited them, all hollow protestations of higher purpose be damned, you won't get any argument out of me.

No. Not just class warfare.

Also child beauty pageant morality, pedophelia, parental abuse.

Its a tabloid gold mine if it can be perpetuated with lies like "daddy's secret"

Of course then there's the truth: The R's were at the low end of any upper class and are not that rich, thousands of kids are in beauty pageants without incident while other parents actually pimp their kids, there is no known parental abuse, and the only known pedophile is the unknown male DNA owner.
 
Uh, I don't know what they do know. What they don't know is that JBR was abused by her parents prior to the night she was murdered. That they don't know.
Aren't some of these tabloid hires? After-the-fact doctors hired by the 'daddy's secret' tabloids who never attended JBR in life or death?

No,they don't.......neither do you that she wasn't.
But what does prima facie tell you re this one...who could have done this....who had access to the child,someone living in Asia?


THE RAMSEY'S NEVER SAID IT COULD HAVE BEEN X OR Y,did they?They chose the easy way..........SHE WASN'T abused.They even said we can't be sure she was assaulted THAT NIGHT,oh GMAB.

So ,according to them,it was no one......how convenient.........AGAIN.
 
No. Not just class warfare.

Also child beauty pageant morality, pedophilia, parental abuse.

There are some pretty sick people out there, I'll grant you. But let's face it, HOTYH: it's not a very big leap of imagination from child pageants to sexual abuse.

Its a tabloid gold mine if it can be perpetuated with lies like "daddy's secret"

Look, HOTYH, I won't deny what you say about the tabs. But what does that have to do with me?

Of course then there's the truth: The R's were at the low end of any upper class and are not that rich, thousands of kids are in beauty pageants without incident while other parents actually pimp their kids, there is no known parental abuse, and the only known pedophile is the unknown male DNA owner.

Just to keep on that last one, it helps to keep in mind the difference between a pedophile and a situational molester.
 
NO WAY! One time wouldn't do THAT. That's kind of the whole point of the word "erosion": the wearing away of material over time.

What Ames showed you from the autopsy report was just a STARTER. Allow me to quote from my book:

During JonBenet's autopsy, Dr. John Meyer examined her vagina. Here's what he found, from the actual report:

"A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1x1 cm hymeneal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise from between the 2:00 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and the distal right vaginal wall."

Okay, for you regular people, that means that JonBenet's hymen was scratched. It has been established that her vagina was violated the night of her death. But the "1x1 cm hymeneal orifice" is the bell-ringer here. That means that the opening in JonBenet's six-year-old hymen was one centimeter by one centimeter. This is twice the size of a so-called normal hymeneal opening for a girl this age.

The autopsy report shows more than just hymeneal damage. Again, from the report:

"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen."

In plain English, that means that JonBenet had old inflammation that had not been allowed to heal. This did not happen all at once. Even more damning is the term "erosion." No point in trying to obfuscate the issue: that means that layers of flesh in JonBenet's vagina had been worn away over time; stripped away by continuous invasion. Old and new vaginal injuries. It couldn't be any plainer than that.


And that's not even mentioning JB's regression in toilet habits or her serious boundary issues!



I don't think you want to KNOW what I think about that little comment.



AH, but that's just it! It's not JUST the chronic inflammation. It's the expanded vaginal size, the lack of hymenal tissue, the erosion of areas normally protected by the hymen, the regression in toilet habits, and the SERIOUS boundary issues.



That's wrong. It's not just wrong, it's an insult.
None of the panel members were associated with the tabloids in ANY way.



:clap: :clap: :clap:



Yes, he should. He'd have us believe that the whole abuse angle was something the tabs dreamed up to sell magazines. Indeed, his repeated assertions about rich family scandals and tabloid-paid doctors are almost exact quotes of what JR has said. Well, I wish like hell it WAS just dreamed up!



What a post! *Applause*

The thing is, what HOTYH appears to be ignoring is that, while the autopsy doesn't tell us who was abusing JBR, it does tell her that she had been abused. Had she turned up in an ER with the older injuries, her case would have been referred to children's services or whatever and her family would have been investigated. Had they been eliminated, then people with close, unsupervised, contact with JBR would have been investigated - people with whom JR and PR simply had to have contact. This is yet another reason for which the Ramseys should have spoken to police from day one - they could have told police who had contact with JBR etc and removed suspicion from themselves. Oddly, though, they have always been reluctant to accept or discuss the prior abuse. Given that they seemed to favour a 'friendly' intruder theory in the early days, you'd have thought they would have been more interested or at least kept an open mind.

A couple of other things, we know Patsy had told JBR all about inappropriate touching yet she didn't appear to worry about people having the most intimate contact with JBR when wiping her. This is slightly odd. The list she gives of people who shouldn't touch JBR's swimsuit area is also odd, in that it only specifically mentions family males (and Dr Beuf unless mommy is there).

Finally, as we discussed on another thread, we are finally learning about the involvement of women in child sexual abuse. It runs to at least 25% of all cases and usually involves a family member or close family friend. People are unwilling to accept it and children tend still to be disbelieved when they report abuse by women and, the women, being the primary caregivers in most cases, are often able to pass off inappropriate touching etc by talking about washing the child etc. The women may not actually regard what they do as sexual abuse, thinking it is OK to digitally penetrate a child for cleansing purposes.

None of this can ever be proven to relate to the Ramsey case but even IDI have to admit that looking at this angle might have proved useful in identifying who killed JBR. Instead they assume that it would necessarily implicate JR.

ETA: Also, Wendy Murphy accused John of sexually abusing JBR and no action has been taken against her. If IDI can query why FW never sued Nancy Krebs, then I think we are entitled to ask why JR didn't sue Wendy Murphy.

And, for the record, I'm not personally wedded to the notion that JR was harming JB but that possibility and the possibility of others close to her harming her should have been investigated with the help of the Ramseys.
 
PS. HOTYH, hope your sinuses are feeling better today.
 
The thing is, what HOTYH appears to be ignoring is that, while the autopsy doesn't tell us who was abusing JBR, it does tell her that she had been abused. Had she turned up in an ER with the older injuries, her case would have been referred to children's services or whatever and her family would have been investigated.

This would be somewhat valid if only it came from the coroner or JBR's physician. Sorry, but it seems relatively worthless coming instead from a devout RDI or from 'Monday morning coroners' some of whom are paid for by the tabs who want to print stuff like 'daddy's secret'.

IOW there was a time for your remarks and that time has past. In the meantime, new evidence has come to light casting doubt on RDI.

The media doesn't run RDI anymore, including the tabs.
 
This would be somewhat valid if only it came from the coroner or JBR's physician. Sorry, but it seems relatively worthless coming instead from a devout RDI or from 'Monday morning coroners' some of whom are paid for by the tabs who want to print stuff like 'daddy's secret'.

IOW there was a time for your remarks and that time has past. In the meantime, new evidence has come to light casting doubt on RDI.

The media doesn't run RDI anymore, including the tabs.


As we've discussed before, the media doesn't run IDI either although the last published article - a blog in the Denver Post - seemed rather more RDI than IDI and certainly enumerated the very valid reasons for which Lacy had been a fool to exonerate the Ramseys.

However, since the person who damaged JBR's vagina could be the person that killed her and since that person could have been an intruder, I can only conclude that the reason you are refuting the clear indication in the autopsy report that there was chronic damage to the vagina, that because it doesn't fit your SFF theory, it can't be true.

Actually, if you would just yield an inch on your theory, there are some obvious suspects who fit your theory (minus it's more lurid aspects) and would be more than capable of having interfered with JBR.
 
As we've discussed before, the media doesn't run IDI either ===============(screeeeeeeeeech). Wha?? CNN, NBC, FOXNEWS, BBC all running stories that the R's were cleared by DNA evidence. Do you even get radio where you live? .

Actually, if you would just yield an inch on your theory, there are some obvious suspects who fit your theory (minus it's more lurid aspects) and would be more than capable of having interfered with JBR.

Like who? Maybe I don't understand your post. What does 'interfered with JBR' mean. Did you mean to say 'murdered JBR'?
 
This would be somewhat valid if only it came from the coroner or JBR's physician. Sorry, but it seems relatively worthless coming instead from a devout RDI or from 'Monday morning coroners' some of whom are paid for by the tabs who want to print stuff like 'daddy's secret'.

IOW there was a time for your remarks and that time has past. In the meantime, new evidence has come to light casting doubt on RDI.

The media doesn't run RDI anymore, including the tabs.

Actually the coroner was Mayer. Not a "monday morning coroner". He was the coroner that performed the autopsy. It is also quite common for other forensic specialists to review forensic evidence in a high-profile case. This doesn't make them amateurs. They were all respected professionals.
JB's own physician admitted he NEVER did a vaginal exam on her.
 
Actually the coroner was Mayer. Not a "monday morning coroner". He was the coroner that performed the autopsy. It is also quite common for other forensic specialists to review forensic evidence in a high-profile case. This doesn't make them amateurs. They were all respected professionals.
JB's own physician admitted he NEVER did a vaginal exam on her.

I'm not sure but I think this isn't in the context of our discussion. The suggestion was that if JBR was taken to ER, her older injuries would've alerted social services.

I replied that claims to the effect of 'older injuries due to past sexual abuse' were not documented by JBR's physician OR the coroner. That was the time for the claim to be raised, and those were the people to raise it. After-the-fact claims by RDI enthusiasts or third-party tabloid doctors are worthless.
 
Digital penetration doesn't make sense why this unless something there to be hidden or at least hoped to be hidden...The intruder had JonBenet alone and used a paintbrush...Where is the common sense in this action...
 
Digital penetration doesn't make sense why this unless something there to be hidden or at least hoped to be hidden...The intruder had JonBenet alone and used a paintbrush...Where is the common sense in this action...

Who says a paintbrush was used? Not the coroner. Not LE.
Who believes a paintbrush was used? Only RDI.
The foreign material could be secondary transfer.

That a paintbrush was 'used to coverup something' is RDI hype, not a known fact. Its just speculation that is another part of RDI sensationalism that has surrounded the case since it began.
 

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