FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by IceIce9, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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  2. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    Marg from Oz, IQuestion and al66pine like this.
  3. anneg

    anneg Well-Known Member

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    Opened for me
     
  4. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Shamoka Furman was on the job 5 months before....
    Surfside security guard describes climbing through rubble to escape building collapse
    Mimosa I just tried it and it worked. I'll post part of the article and renew the link, ok?
    Surfside security guard describes climbing through rubble to escape building collapse
    “All I remember was the building shaking, I thought it was an earthquake,” Furman said. “I don’t even know how I made it out. Through the grace of God.

    “I had to get out, but guess what, I couldn’t get out. I had to figure out a way to escape. It was dark. I ended up going through a window.”
    As I recall, even SF (the security guard) said she had to climb out a window because the front doors of the building did not open because of power failure. Perhaps someone else can confirm that part, as I am just going by memory....such as it is.
    ps Kudos to Rosh Lowe, the reporter...so appreciate you!
     
  5. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    On the recurring fires in the rubble, because of an earlier tragedy (story was covered on Websleuths about a fast moving fire on a scuba dive boat) and other recent events in SoCal that have been challenging for first responders:
    • Safety experts say the only way to extinguish a lithium-ion battery inside a car is with thousands of gallons of water, much more than what it takes to stop a fire in a typical gasoline engine. The other option is to just let it burn itself out.
    I am not a scientist & could barely pass chemistry, but have read "batteries under pressure if punctured can react with air & water and combust." Hey, we are surrounded with batteries in practically everything we use today....from laptops, cell phones, TV remotes etc.
    Lithium batteries are more dangerous than you think. What to know.
     
  6. TDoc72

    TDoc72 Well-Known Member

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    Great article. Thanks for posting. So interesting to read about the approach to find victims. There’s one picture of the floors marked 12 thru 10 (or 9) that really shows how it pancaked and why there were so few survivors. Mere inches between floors. I thought I understood it before but seeing it made a huge difference to me.
     
  7. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Expand article to read more on the actions by security guard. ( One of many heroes that night and beyond...)
    "It was Furman who made one of the first calls to 911. When residents called her to ask what was going on, she told them to evacuate the building." (I thought the fire call was from a male, but now I hear Shamoka's voice, she does have a low voice. Could that have been SF? The call came in approx. 1:16 am. I'm going to listen to the call again.) PS, I had to edit because the caller does seem confused ...and cut off. Later there was a "pro" call from Silvio reporting a fire, maybe after fire alarm was activated..IDK.
    Security guard breaks silence about escaping Surfside condo collapse
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
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  8. GatorFL

    GatorFL Well-Known Member

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  9. sds71

    sds71 Well-Known Member

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  10. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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  11. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    That bothered me from the beginning, but when I would bring it up, people took my concern as victim blaming, which wasn’t my intention.
     
  12. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    No, that definitely isn't "Victim Blaming". If there are instances of people who KNEW about the dangers of the building, and sold property, based on the knowledge, and DID NOT disclose the information about the condition of the building at the time of sale, it is a huge issue.
     
  13. GatorFL

    GatorFL Well-Known Member

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    The conditions of the building were public knowledge to all who lived there. The people who chose to leave shouldn't be shamed for getting out.
     
  14. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    But it can be considered criminal for a seller to knowingly sell real estate with a potential hazard and not disclose this to buyers. I don't, maybe the buyers waived this. Real estate contracts are beyond my realm of expertise.

    Added link, yes, this could very well be a problem for sellers if they did not disclose the information about the property.

    Florida Disclosure Laws: What Sellers Have to Share About Their Home
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
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  15. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    BEARS10:) some outlets must have heard your concerns. I think it would be important to tell a potential buyer the HOA fees were going to be drastically increased or a special assessment was about to be levied because of deferred maintenance issues, regardless of what needed to be repaired. Who in a million years would equate the words "deferred maintenance" with the collapse of a building?
    "An independent budget review warned the Champlain Towers South condo association that its financial reserves were critically underfunded in the face of urgently needed structural repairs a little over a year before the building collapsed, a document obtained by CNN shows."
    The HOA had been turned down for loans from 2 lenders before they finally found a lender.

    ""I just wish they had hired us five years or 10 years or 20 years prior," he said of the Champlain South condo board."
    A 2020 report found Surfside condo lacked funds for necessary repairs. One expert called it a 'wake-up call'
    Report found Surfside condo association was deeply underfunded as repair bills piled up - CNN
     
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  16. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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  17. A2FMNST

    A2FMNST Well-Known Member

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    It’s behind a pay wall right now but I can’t wait to hear what they found so far…

    “Surfside tower was flawed from day one. Designs violated the code, likely worsened collapse…

    On the northern side, under the portion of the tower that collapsed, the columns were too narrow to accommodate all of the vertical and horizontal rebar called for in the plans while maintaining clearance required by the code.“

    Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  18. A2FMNST

    A2FMNST Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never owned a condo before so my experience is with stand alone homes. When buying a home, it is recommended to have an inspection by a licensed contractor. Does this process exist when purchasing a condo? If so, I can’t imagine a potential buyer asking a realtor for a copy of 40 years worth of maintenance records or a sample of the concrete from the foundation/piling caps/columns.

    So sad for all these folks, we truly owe it to them to find a better way of making sure this doesn’t happen again.
     
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  19. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Great information A2FMNST. Columns were too narrow? Ugh, and I can't imagine how much time those columns stood in seeping saltwater, further eroding their strength. The big question now, is did/does the Champlain Tower North have the same fault in their underground garage?
    I noticed CTS board had asked Surfside/MC for additional parking spaces...was this because reinforcing the existing underground concrete columns, or making new ones (like they did in Dolphin Towers) was going to result in loss of available underground parking?
    Any one know if that was part of the "concept" proposal?
     
  20. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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