FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by IceIce9, Jun 24, 2021.

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  1. Warwick1991

    Warwick1991 Well-Known Member

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    From looking at pre-collapse photos, it looks like the pool may have been above at least part of the parking garage. That is a common design in the area because the sites for these kinds of buildings are usually too tight to allow enough land for a pool on the ground. I’ve been in other buildings in the area that have the pool above the garage, with the requisite heavy structural members in the garage to carry the load of a pool filled with water above.

    Taking another look at post-collapse photos, the pool is still recognizable and may still be at least partially intact. Perhaps it is cracked and not fully caved in. Like so much of this situation, many unanswered questions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
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  2. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Condo Ins? Rebuild? How Soon?
    It’s interesting to read discussion of possible collapse causes from our members w engineering, architectural, construction, design experience. Many talents here. TY.

    Presumably the Condo Owners Assn’s master prop. ins. policy has sufficient $ coverage for replacement (per below), but was this damage caused by a covered peril in that policy? Can this condo complex/development be replaced/rebuilt on this site? If so, how long until occupancy? Could it be sooner than several years?

    Will condo unit owners receive payments thru their prop ins policies (per below), based on damages from a covered peril? If a condo unit becomes uninhabitable by a covered peril, some policies pay “Loss of Use” or “Additional Living Expenses” benefits for a given period of time, providing owner $ to stay elsewhere, awaiting reconstruction.

    What a tragic mess for everyone involved. my2ct. Even beyond the deaths, injuries, and property destruction, so many issues to sort here.

    __________________________________________
    FL statute* requires each Condo Owners Assn to buy prop ins. policy for replacement cost of the prop, which ime includes main structure(s), parking garages, common areas/common elements such as lobby, hallways, elevators, stairways, pool, tennis courts, rec facilities, and other improvements on the land, such as landscaping, driveways, etc, but does not cover condo unit interiors. Ins proceeds of this policy for prop damage are payable to the condo assn, not to individual unit owners. FL law* requires independent ins. appraisal every 36 months.
    Condo Unit Owner policy (known as HO-6** which each unit owner buys for self) is separate from master policy written for the entire assn. It covers interior prop within the unit, such as floor, wall,& ceiling coverings, as well as attached items such as electrical fixtures, water heater, appliances, built-in cabinets & countertops, window treatments, and finally, owner’s personal prop, such as furniture, clothing, other household items, etc. FL statute*** prescribes the scope of coverage.

    * Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
    ** Home insurance - Wikipedia
    *** “ (g) A condominium unit owner policy must conform to the requirements of s. 627.714.”
    ^ FL statute 718.111(11)(g)
     
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  3. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    Engineer who surveyed Champlain Towers wasn't asked to check foundations | Daily Mail Online
    • Champlain Towers Condominium Associates hired Frank Morabito to review the building and recommend changes
    • He spent six months studying the building then produced a report with recommendations
    • He did not dig beneath the building or look at its foundations, a lawyer for the condo board told DailyMail.com
    • That is not a requirement for recertification - which happens in Miami Dade every 40 years
    Morabito presented his report to the board and at the top of the list of recommendations was fixing the roof before hurricane season.

    He recommended concrete work and other structural and electrical changes but it's unclear what those were exactly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  4. DropthePuck

    DropthePuck Well-Known Member

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    BBM. Sadly, greed is universal.
     
  5. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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  6. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    Mystery of what caused South Florida condo collapse deepens - CNN

    "This collapse is a classic column failure. Which means the building itself was supported by a series of pillars. If the pillars fail, everything fails," said Kit Miyamoto, a structural engineer and California Seismic Safety Commission chairman.


    Also in the article, S Wdowinski, the author of the scientific article that mentions the building was sinking, pointed out that it would have been a problem if sinking was not uniform. In that case observable cracks could appear. This was confirmed by a member of the American Institute of Architects:

    "People in the building would see cracks in their floors, the table would not be flat, things would roll off," Karp said. "You would see cracks in your walls. You look up in the ceiling and you see cracks in the ceiling."
     
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  7. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    Heroic stories are starting to emerge ... this lady and her daughter tumbled from the 9th floor to the 5th floor, the mum broke her pelvis and still managed to find her daughter and drag her out.


    A mother who suffered a broken pelvis in the horror Florida condo collapse managed to pull herself and her daughter alive from the rubble, despite a four-floor plunge, according to reports.

    Mum Angela Gonzalez and her 16-year-old daughter, Devon, fell from the ninth floor to the fifth floor when part of the 12-story Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside collapsed early Thursday morning, local time, New York Post reported.

    Despite significant injury, Ms Gonzalez miraculously found a way to save her daughter. However her husband Edgar is among the missing.

    Mother and daughter are being treated at the nearby Jackson Memorial Hospital

    Miami building collapse: Badly injured mum pulls daughter from Miami rubble
     
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  8. JaimeInLA

    JaimeInLA Team Juan

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    i’m trying to make sense of her comment, because the pool is clearly still there in all the photos.
     

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  9. JaimeInLA

    JaimeInLA Team Juan

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    here is a better photo.
     

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  10. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    I have been looking at the pool in this link - prior to the collapse. To compare.

    Champlain Towers East Condos in Surfside | Sales & Rentals

    I imagine the pool is tilted over, due to some of the supports under one side having collapsed/sunk. Which might be hard to see from an above angle. I think the pool's water is completely gone in your pics.
     
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  11. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    Were they in the part where the condos were cut in half?
     
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  12. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. The part I posted is all the article says about them.
    Her husband is missing, and they managed to get out, so it would make sense that their apartment might have been cut in half.

    (My apologies if it is paywalled for you, it's not paywalled for me.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
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  13. SouthAussie

    SouthAussie Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
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  14. mrsu

    mrsu Well-Known Member

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    I cannot stop following this and it’s just completely horrifying. Those poor people. :( And I cannot even fathom being a searcher - everything is heavy and not easily moved. I just can’t imagine. It’s been keeping me up at night.
     
  15. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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  16. indicolite22

    indicolite22 Well-Known Member

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    No, I can read it. My question was more like "I wonder if...".
     
  17. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
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  18. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    (ugh, somehow my post got entwined, but hope you can figure it out.) THE STRUCTURAL FIELD SURVEY REPORT OCT 2018

    I read this report and my jaw dropped. I am unable to copy and paste the items the MC observed and recommendations. So I'll just recap from Pg 4 items D& E.
    (lots of concrete issues reported over and over, spalling, incorrect sloping for drainage etc.) and on Pg 7 items J & K on pg 8:
    "MC visual observations revealed that many of the previous garage concrete repairs are failing resulting in additional concrete cracking, spalling and leaching of calcium carbonate deposits."
    In any case (I am not an engineer) many of the recommendations seem to require a lot of time, disruption and expense. If this was the first inspection in 40 years, then I might say, "What did you expect?" But the author of the report, changed my opinion, wrote a lot about concrete issues and "failed slabs."
    Man-oh-man.... it is a dangerous place for the rescuers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  19. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    JamieInLA....Thank you for the side by side photos. It appears there is a square building by the pool....could it be the cabana? And then in the "after" photo the structure is totally destroyed. (or broke off and tumbled into the parking area below.) So I am thinking part of the "pool area" did collapse or at least appeared to collapse to an observer at night and during the ensuing chaos.
    https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/8c0c414c-f5e1-40e8-8f2a-ef04945d15f2-jpeg.302309/
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  20. IQuestion

    IQuestion Well-Known Member

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    Duplicate post, ugh!
     
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