FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #1 *Arrest*

[kimlynn]

I wonder when is the time to "have the conversation" Next time? the next or the next. Deeply saddened by yet another massacre. I'm grateful for the layers of protection I am provided in Canada. No feelings of my "rights" being violated. That's all I got. My heart goes out to all affected by this tragedy.

This is why we can't or won't have the conversation.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bess-kalb-nra-tweets_us_5a84ee69e4b0058d5565cbac

 

[cujenn81]

ETA: (sorry... I meant to 'reply with quote' to a post up thread)


THIS! Exactly.

Everyone rushes to label these criminals as 'disturbed' or 'mentally ill' -- because we are too afraid to acknowledge and accept that we are all capable of depravity.
If we can find something -- anything -- that makes these guys different from us somehow, we don't have to admit that a "normal" human being could do this. We can continue to lie to ourselves with false reassurances that this will never happen to me because "I don't know anyone like that" or "I would have seen the signs if that had been me". Sure, ignorance might be bliss. But it's still ignorant. In these situations, ignorance is also incredibly dangerous.

 

[CathyinTexas]

A student who was walking in the hall with the suspect after the shooting started said she believes there was a second shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRG-fVi1iE

 

[x_files]

He is following in the footsteps of The Columbine attack.

I totally get you want this to be preventable, as we all do, but what would be done to prevent these lone attackers? Lock people up for life who may commit a crime? Preventative punishment doesn't work in society. Interventions, sure, but what interventions? Would counselling have stopped this? 24/7 monitoring? Unfortunately until more is understood why this keeps happening and action taken at a broader preventative intervention level, nothing can be done at an individual level. It's a sad truth.

And whilst I'm a firm believer in the right to own guns within legal limits (I'm in Australia btw), the US' rules on gun ownership are just so backward. In Australia, sure we have gun crime, violence with and without firearms, but at the end of the day, the strict controls mean gun ownership is possible, but highly monitored. It doesn't eliminate the existence of guns but it sure as heck reduces the number of everyday weirdos that have access to them. The statistics say it all - and regardless of political orientation, our PM at the time of the Port Arthur killings, John Howard, saved many many many lives by acting swiftly for legislative change and a gun buy back scheme straight after that atrocity.

Theatening to kill, harm and shoot others is a crime. Sane people don't make flippant, random threats.

 

[Hatfield]

It sounds like the school gave clear warnings about him to LE, too. That should have been sufficient, but from what I'm reading, its no longer possible to prevent someone with mental illness from buying dangerous weapons and ammo.

Police can't lock him up until he breaks the law. Sadly, the first time he did so was when he killed 17 people.

My solution: Boycott Florida or any state that can't deal with theses problems. Works great. I ask my friends and family who are thinking of retiring in FL or down south to think again. I also refuse to travel there on business or for professional conferences. Wanna have a beach vacation? I'd rather go to CA or the East Coast or North Coast.

I havent read yet that any authoritative LE type went to his house to put the fear into him that they are watching him. That may have been enough in this case. The school kicked him out which was good but we really needed LE to make a few visits to his home to put him on warning that they are aware of his doings at school and on SM and watching him.

Without that he probably sat at home coming up with all kinds of crazy schemes and he rightly thought nobody knew or cared what he was up to.

We are never going to be able to stop 100% of them but we can start to reduce them and we have to begin to take action. Its the no action that is giving these perps the freedom they are taking advantage of.

For example. Yesterday it was brought up that we could start to have metal detectors and IDs at the school doors like some schools already have and someone mentioned well the shooter could wait till school is over but that is not a valid argument to not do the preventative actions.

Because those preventative actions will likely prevent some of these types of shootings. Making it harder on the perps to carry out something like yesterday.

Its the lack of any action which is helping these perps do whatever they want. We need to make it harder on them and I guarantee it will stop some of them from acting if we make it harder on them. Some will think twice and not take the action they are thinking about. It wont stop all of them but it will likely reduce them and that is an accomplishment.

Having LE go to their front doors and talk with them and their parents to put them on notice that they are aware of their SM postings and things they are up to. Will really make kids like him think twice about things.

All JMO of course.

 

[x_files]

He is following in the footsteps of The Columbine attack.

What is attached to these notions are that they are dealing a person who is processing the world around them in a normative fashion

They are not --telling an autistic child not to do anything most times results in nothing

they dont have the capacity to do that

I noticed this am what we do as a society is alway try to attach blame - blame permits those blaming to go on with their business


now i am "doing " anything either? It wont stop it will only get worse and worse

you need asphalt to repair a road and asphalt costs money and their is no money nor any money coming

hate to a be a bummer but spent years realizing their are no options in terms of placement so we cant really blame like it is happening this am

what was the FBI to do

Funding is start not gonna happen

were kinda stuck in the sad place we have gotten in

I am very very confused about his caretaker changes dates times his ages duration of living where ? From birth

It would also be helpful to know dates of his private school placements and reasons for getting expelled over and over

it is not gonna change much but will give us insight into the life this kid experienced growing up

wonder how long he was at dollar tree - kinda surprising

after each expulsion how long was he in kicked out mode

when was he kicked out of ROTC -- him wearing his rotc shirt is classic autistic behavior they need intense consistency

changes in most things (who is around them food their rooms can overwhelm totally and they have an inability to control themselves they are scared to death (this is when they are younger)

a lot of them must wear the same things it is consistent stuff like when young iif they are ok eating pizza and you put a hamburger down forget it just forget it -- a volcano erupts

like watching the same video over and over if changed look out

its is loud scary they can hurt themselves or others

he held a job and did make it kinda to school so he had functioning

peers said he was always twidgeting his thumbs

an example below i selected the age i did -- see what they experience as they are maturing a rough rough world

just to get an idea adult:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CumTA_k0a0




they are in need of blood down there

If he had autism shouldn't he have been in classes with trained professionals?

 

[mrsu]

Press conference:

They know how he got in the school and will be sharing that when they release the timeline. Will share videos matched up with timeline.

Believe they know where the weapon was purchased. Will release info later.

 

[Elley Mae]

Cruz usually kept to himself but "once given the opportunity, he liked to talk," said Brandon Minoff, a senior who was assigned to a group project with Cruz during sophomore year.

"He always just seemed very quiet and strange," Minoff said.

Minoff tried to avoid Cruz, he said, "but when I got assigned to work with him, he started talking to me."

"He told me how he got kicked out of two private schools. He was held back twice. He had aspirations to join the military. He enjoyed hunting," the high school senior said.

http://www.weny.com/story/37509320/who-is-florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz

Cruz appears to have been involved in the high school's Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps program, as his name is listed under several awards in 2016, including academic achievement for maintaining an A grade in JROTC and Bs in other subjects.

He also was awarded for presenting an outstanding appearance and outstanding conduct throughout school.

 

[Hatfield]

Theatening to kill, harm and shoot others is a crime. Sane people don't make flippant, random threats.

Exactly. He probably could have had a valid charge against him and put in jail for a bit of time just based on things he posted in SM.

Im just so frustrated that NOTHING is done. We have to start doing some things. Sure it wont stop all of them but stopping some of them is a huge accomplishment in my book.

 

[Hope4More]

No nation on the face of the Earth, other than the US of A, has children who with grotesque frequency slaughter other children at school.

Is there something completely unique and wrong about how Americans raise their children, or about how Americans deal with mental illness?

Every other nation on the face of the Earth has troubled children, and the peoples of many nations on the face of the Earth have FAR fewer resources and wealth and yet their children do not go to school and commit massacres of other children.

What could possibly be the difference?

 

[Betty P]

I havent read yet that any authoritative LE type went to his house to put the fear into him that they are watching him. That may have been enough in this case. The school kicked him out which was good but we really needed LE to make a few visits to his home to put him on warning that they are aware of his doings at school and on SM and watching him.

Without that he probably sat at home coming up with all kinds of crazy schemes and he rightly thought nobody knew or cared what he was up to.

We are never going to be able to stop 100% of them but we can start to reduce them and we have to begin to take action. Its the no action that is giving these perps the freedom they are taking advantage of.

For example. Yesterday it was brought up that we could start to have metal detectors and IDs at the school doors like some schools already have and someone mentioned well the shooter could wait till school is over but that is not a valid argument to not do the preventative actions.

Because those preventative actions will likely prevent some of these types of shootings. Making it harder on the perps to carry out something like yesterday.

Its the lack of any action which is helping these perps do whatever they want. We need to make it harder on them and I guarantee it will stop some of them from acting if we make it harder on them. Some will think twice and not take the action they are thinking about. It wont stop all of them but it will likely reduce them and that is an accomplishment.

Having LE go to their front doors and talk with them and their parents to put them on notice that they are aware of their SM postings and things they are up to. Will really make kids like him think twice about things.

All JMO of course.

I'm sorry, I probably wasn't clear in my post. LE went to the house of the person who reported the online threat. They were asking him questions to see if they could identify Cruz, but were unable to do so, apparently. But, yeah, I agree that LE paying a visit if they do identify them would help tremendously. Might help identify some people who do have major psych/mental issues, possibly have them committed for 72 hr observation and evaluation, get them on medication if needed. Might help identify people who have stockpiled dangerous amounts of weapons and ammo.

That said, it doesn't sound like Florida's leaders aren't the kind of people who believe in this kind of thing, at least not in the well-to-do suburbs. Some definite soul searching needs to be done by those leaders.

 

[Soulmagent]

I believe they extended the age to keep teens from getting into more trouble unsupervised.

That only seemed to have made childhood extend until the mid 20's .

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

President addressing the nation about the FL shooting.

 

[Trident]

I think we start by calling out those little shaming moments when they happen. In this very thread, someone used the phrase "wimpy sissy men". That's shaming men who aren't big tough masculine guys. An effeminate boy will see that and internalize it.

We need to be willing to say simply, "Hey, that's not cool. Everyone is different." vs just ignoring it because someone might not like it. We need to be willing to stand up to our friends and family when they say things that are hurtful or when they make "jokes" that shame someone else. We are a "polite society" where we are supposed to "tolerate different opinions." Maybe if we were willing to TALK about why those "different opinions" can be hurtful, we would start to see some change. JMO.

Belive it, or not, I have some of the same problems you do. For instance, "An effiminate boy will see that and internalize it." I agree, although I say God created us all. I often wonder where the effiminat boy came from if God created us all. Believe me, I think many of us have the same feelings/beliefs, but don't know how to express them. Sometimes, though, many of us/me/you come across too strongly, putting an end to good conversation/sharing/debate/agreement.

I would like to continue this in a while, I think many of us have more in common than we know.

 

[mrsobrien]

Is it known that the main weapon was an AR15? How big/tall is this shooter? I can't imagine anyone being able to approach a school with a firearm of this size unnoticed.

My high school aged son (15) is a big strong boy, 5'9" and athletic 140 pounds. He recently modeled for a photo shoot holding an AR 15 (don't ask, lol). The cumbersome length and weight was noticeable.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm sorry, I probably wasn't clear in my post. LE went to the house of the person who reported the online threat. They were asking him questions to see if they could identify Cruz, but were unable to do so, apparently. But, yeah, I agree that LE paying a visit if they do identify them would help tremendously. Might help identify some people who do have major psych/mental issues, possibly have them committed for 72 hr observation and evaluation, get them on medication if needed. Might help identify people who have stockpiled dangerous amounts of weapons and ammo.

That said, it doesn't sound like Florida's leaders aren't the kind of people who believe in this kind of thing, at least not in the well-to-do suburbs. Some definite soul searching needs to be done by those leaders.

Yes, I totally agree.

I got the impression that LE just did not do any extra legwork to trace the IP address of the SM postings. They do it in other crimes so surely they could have found out who that person was. I took it like once they asked the reporter if he knew him and he said no that LE gave up and didnt do any more work on it.

That is unacceptable on LE part if that is all they did once they were notified of those threatening SM posts from him. At minimum they should have IDd him and paid him and his parent(s) a visit.

 

[Cherry]

President addressing the nation about the FL shooting.

Talking to the kids who are at this moment in school. A worthless presser by potus imo. Useless.

 

[enelram]

What do you think cause it? Medications? Withdrawal? Adrenaline rush? Psychopathy?

IMO-
Well, this is Florida and I expect like most young people this age, that he was doing some street drugs in his spare time.
I live here and the drug problem has been horrible for years. It would be the exception if his bloodtest didn't contain
illegal drugs. Kids even sell their ADHD drugs on the street. Parents even sell their kids' ADHD drugs on the street.
Family members sell their elderly relatives' drugs on the street. Even medical personnel I have dealt with have drug habits.
It's totally out of control.

 

[CARIIS]

I think we start by calling out those little shaming moments when they happen. In this very thread, someone used the phrase "wimpy sissy men". That's shaming men who aren't big tough masculine guys. An effeminate boy will see that and internalize it.

We need to be willing to say simply, "Hey, that's not cool. Everyone is different." vs just ignoring it because someone might not like it. We need to be willing to stand up to our friends and family when they say things that are hurtful or when they make "jokes" that shame someone else. We are a "polite society" where we are supposed to "tolerate different opinions." Maybe if we were willing to TALK about why those "different opinions" can be hurtful, we would start to see some change. JMO.

Presser That is good idea!! To allow LE to Baker Act . The way it is now is LE cant initiate it - it has to be done by one of us a

Back then cops hated Baker Act calls. . and then LE is used only a the taxi to facility. Generally speaking they were rude often escalated the situation

On our end it took hours to Baker someone , then the cops part took ages, and the evaluation part (if the person was talking to the ceiling it went a bit faster - you know what I mean.

Its a great idea politically but had better include a TON of money. The system is already completely buried .

Officer training would be needed. There ought to some component of making sure LE does not just start dumping off people at the community health locations to get out of paperwork if they went to jail .

There gonna need more facilities. There ought to be arrestable offences that include severe fines for calling in a fake one. I can see peers calling in tons of em in spite or a dare etc.

A really good idea if there is money!! Otherwise all though it sounds great all it will do is destroy a system that is already so buried it is beyond description.


WOuld also be neat if one class one assignment every couple of days would be to outline the reasons they think something dangerous was posted . It could just be for kids to learn how to discriminate at some level (kinda like a huge screening thing FREE!) You fail the class period if your doing it to your bf gf !!

Actually kinda thrilled -- but then I go back to govt -- oh please it will take them 5 years or they will do it half a##, resulting in a slew of other problems .

You have to take care of staff. Reasonable case loads ($$$) . Otherwise you get a huge a turnover rate - which when dealing with kids is awful awful awful. I had kids that went through a new social worker once every 4 months. Then the new one came in

. Has to get to know the whole case all over .

Their kids -- this is all confusing as it is . To have a person every 4 months translate to nothing meaningful happens to help the child.

NOt really sure if I believe the FBI cant track to his account . Again manpower. It was in his real name?? THAT makes no sense at all imo

Sounds superficial but at that age Valentines keeps getting left out . FOr the rest of everyone's life that is a trigger

 

[enelram]

Is it known that the main weapon was an AR15? How big/tall is this shooter? I can't imagine anyone being able to approach a school with a firearm of this size unnoticed.

My high school aged son (15) is a big strong boy, 5'9" and athletic 140 pounds. He recently modeled for a photo shoot holding an AR 15 (don't ask, lol). The cumbersome length and weight was noticeable.

Reportedly he is 5'7", 130 lbs.