FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

[JaxFlaGal]

Here is the hard part about being a teacher. Each child is a unique person with needs. Teachers look for the good and build upon that. Or at least we should. We are always hopeful that something we do will be the breakthrough that makes the child have more success.

In all of my years of teaching, I had one child who had no redeeming qualities, I felt. It is hard for teachers to give up on a student. We look at that as failure. We did not find the proper key .

Cruz does not sound like there was much to like. Two families kept him for awhile. The last one did not see anything odd.

I wonder if teachers liked him. I wonder if a teacher would have been able ti blast him away.

human, thank you for your service as a teacher! I know personally that I don't have the patience for that calling. I am so grateful to those who put their hearts on the line to help our society's children grow and learn, socially as well as intellectually.

Your comments also reminded me of a wonderful article I read from Reader's Digest last week that exemplifies how teachers can protect our kids and point out to society which ones have special needs or potential challenges - it's through love and their attention to people, not through guns or distrust. https://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/stop-bullying-strategy/#.WoZVAPqSMkk.facebook

[FONT=&amp]You see, Chase’s teacher is not looking for a new seating chart or “exceptional citizens.” Chase’s teacher is looking for lonely children. She’s looking for children who are struggling to connect with other children. She’s identifying the little ones who are falling through the cracks of the class’s social life. [/FONT]

P.S. Moo. My apologies if the article has already been posted to this thread; today was the first day I could bear to read the thread, so I've missed a lot of great insights from the WS community.

 

[popsicle]

Thank you, Popsicle!

Reading this transcript frustrates me so much! It sounds like family, classmates, friends all sent up warning flags to both local and federal authorities, yet no authorities successfully connected the dots to understand the true nature of the threat this kid posed. As I've read the news articles, my sense is that each set of authorities had their own fiefdoms and that information wasn't shared well enough to establish key patterns. That coupled with the strong separation between childhood records and adult records in Florida (MOO, based on living in FL since 1967) means there were red flags all over the place that were not compiled into an effective dossier by authorities. As a citizen, my question is what the heck do our authorities need us to tell them or do in order for them to connect the dots of so many red flags when reporting threats such as these!?

Moo!

I understand that the FBI gets reports that amount to nothing, however, it seems to me that this caller gave the FBI everything they would need to pass on this info and have this guy looked into.

Actually, I honestly won't be surprised to hear this info was passed on, after the revelations coming out about the Sheriff and his office and local LE/school system.

The system failed on every level and it doesn't do any good to have laws if they aren't being enforced and the protocols aren't being followed.

jmo

 

[Doghairrules]

Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

 

[enelram]

Thank you, Popsicle!

Reading this transcript frustrates me so much! It sounds like family, classmates, friends all sent up warning flags to both local and federal authorities, yet no authorities successfully connected the dots to understand the true nature of the threat this kid posed. As I've read the news articles, my sense is that each set of authorities had their own fiefdoms and that information wasn't shared well enough to establish key patterns. That coupled with the strong separation between childhood records and adult records in Florida (MOO, based on living in FL since 1967) means there were red flags all over the place that were not compiled into an effective dossier by authorities. As a citizen, my question is what the heck do our authorities need us to tell them or do in order for them to connect the dots of so many red flags when reporting threats such as these!?

Moo!

Great Question Jax, I think lots of people dropped the ball once he started telling people he wanted to get a gun:

His Mom was one- I don't know how but seems to me common sense should have told her this was a catastrophy
waiting to happen.
Local LE knew and dropped the ball.
DCF knew and dropped the ball.
School authorities knew and dropped the ball.
FBI knew and were warned and dropped the ball.
His mental health counselor probably knew and dropped the ball.
His relatives in NY knew and tried to pursue it but others dropped the ball.
His fosters probably knew, at least the first one did, and bumped him out on the street.
All these people failed him and the injured and killed people at the high school.
I don't know what the answer is but I know the system failed big time.

 

[jjenny]

His mother couldn't control his behavior. Doesn't sound like anybody else could either. The people who took him in were not his official foster parents. He was an adult at that point and not entitled to having somebody foster him. Sounds to me like along the way a lot of his behavior should have resulted in charges being filed. Not sure why was allowed to behave the way he was without any criminal record.

 

[human]

Is there a written report somewhere to LE that he held a gun to someone’s head? I know that people talked about it, but is there an actual complaint from a victim to LE?

He is 5’7” which is exremely small for a male. Were any of his agressions taken seriously? People do fight and nothing happens. No charges are ever filed.

Which charges would result in a felony?

 

[enelram]

Is there a written report somewhere to LE that he held a gun to someone’s head? I know that people talked about it, but is there an actual complaint from a victim to LE?

He is 5’7” which is exremely small for a male. Were any of his agressions taken seriously? People do fight and nothing happens. No charges are ever filed.

Which charges would result in a felony?

Well, if he indeed did fight at school w/ the ex gf's new boyfriend, I guess LE was not involved or if they were no charges were filed. He was out of this school at that point even though the school now claims he was never expelled.
Everyone involved in this debacle went into CYA mode. Not sure who you can believe.
I have not seen anything in writing about a gun to anyone's head. I'm guessing that came from his 1/2 brother telling
R. Deschamps that it had happened. But I am skeptical of what she says based on her own past history and involvement w/ LE.

 

[jjenny]

There is a bunch of allegations in call to FBI, that NC held a rifle to his mother, that he was throwing chairs at teachers and other students. I have seen several students making allegations that NC was threatening them- a friend of ex-girlfriend, a new boyfriend of ex-girlfriend. Police were called to his home numerous times. Seems there could have been charges on at least some of these things.

 

[jjenny]

There was 18 phone calls to police with warning on NC.

"Broward County deputies received at least 18 calls warning them about Nikolas Cruz from 2008 to 2017, including concerns that he "planned to shoot up the school" and other threats and acts of violence before he was accused of killing 17 people at a high school."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-calls-cruzs-violence-threats-guns/366165002/

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I really doubt teachers liked him. Sounds like there were numerous behavioral issues. A caller to FBI who tried to warn authorites claimed NC would throw a chair at teachers if he didn't like what they said.

Agree. It would likely take more than a complaint from a single teacher for a public school student to be expelled. I suspect more than one teacher reported NC's behavioral issues to school administrators resulting in the expulsion.

 

[mpnola]

There was 18 phone calls to police with warning on NC.

"Broward County deputies received at least 18 calls warning them about Nikolas Cruz from 2008 to 2017, including concerns that he "planned to shoot up the school" and other threats and acts of violence before he was accused of killing 17 people at a high school."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-calls-cruzs-violence-threats-guns/366165002/

And I just remembered that in the beginjing, we heard he was not allowed with a bag on campus. So, they believed it enough to not let him have a bag to hide the gun in.

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[JaxFlaGal]

Well, if he indeed did fight at school w/ the ex gf's new boyfriend, I guess LE was not involved or if they were no charges were filed. He was out of this school at that point even though the school now claims he was never expelled.
Everyone involved in this debacle went into CYA mode. Not sure who you can believe.
I have not seen anything in writing about a gun to anyone's head. I'm guessing that came from his 1/2 brother telling
R. Deschamps that it had happened. But I am skeptical of what she says based on her own past history and involvement w/ LE.

Is there a written report somewhere to LE that he held a gun to someone’s head? I know that people talked about it, but is there an actual complaint from a victim to LE?

He is 5’7” which is exremely small for a male. Were any of his agressions taken seriously? People do fight and nothing happens. No charges are ever filed.

Which charges would result in a felony?

This article reflects how it was reported in a 911 call to the county sheriff's office.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...s-910pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.4b37a9e946cf

In one 911 call to the Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office, a woman said that her son and another young man — Cruz, according to his lawyer who confirmed this call centered on his client — got into a fight, and she was “afraid he’s coming back and he has a lot of weapons.” She also said that Cruz had aimed a gun at people’s heads before. In another 911 call, Cruz called authorities and, sounding distressed, said he was attacked.

 

[x_files]

So odd. And no one attends the funeral?

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truly odd.

 

[x_files]

Exactly. A guy whose job it was couldn't even do it. And we are supposed to expect teachers to be able to do it?

It takes highly skilled/trained officers/military to face off with an active shooter. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

 

[x_files]

This may have been discussed before but I don't remember. Anyway, I was reading through some older articles from a week ago and found this article:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Here's some quotes that are very interesting to me. BBM:

Sophia Serino, 17, said Cruz just “snapped” when he decided to open fire on his classmates and murder anyone in his path.
“There was a lot going on with him mentally. His mother died three months ago and… his other family members took [his inheritance] from him and kicked him out so he snapped,” Serino told The Post.
...

“He’s been saying this stuff many times… During freshman year around he was in the bathroom and he was actually about to snap and plan this out and do it but [my friend] talked him down.
“It wasn’t something that was spontaneous. I think he really planned this.”

No one snaps and goes on a mass school shooting. It takes planning to amass the guns, ammo, take the Uber to school with his gun.
That isn't snapping.
It's a long meltdown over several years, in this case at least one year in the planning almost to the exact date he last attended that HS.
What was he doing the past year? Working or just planning this massacre?

 

[enelram]

truly odd.

Was there a published obituary in the local paper? What was date?
I wonder if people just did NOT know she'd died. You have to pay to have them published and maybe the 2 ex-neighbors didn't want to bother or maybe they didn't want outsiders to know and interfere, if they had a plan to
handle the boys and the estate $$$.

 

[x_files]

This may have been discussed before but I don't remember. Anyway, I was reading through some older articles from a week ago and found this article:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Here's some quotes that are very interesting to me. BBM:

Sophia Serino, 17, said Cruz just “snapped” when he decided to open fire on his classmates and murder anyone in his path.
“There was a lot going on with him mentally. His mother died three months ago and… his other family members took [his inheritance] from him and kicked him out so he snapped,” Serino told The Post.
...

“He’s been saying this stuff many times… During freshman year around he was in the bathroom and he was actually about to snap and plan this out and do it but [my friend] talked him down.
“It wasn’t something that was spontaneous. I think he really planned this.”

No one snaps and goes on a mass school shooting. It takes planning to amass the guns, ammo, take the Uber to school with his gun.
That isn't snapping.
It's a long meltdown over several years, in this case at least one year in the planning almost to the exact date he last attended that HS.
What was he doing the past year? Working or just planning this massacre?

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/mass-shootings-threat-assessment-shooter-fbi-columbine/

 

[x_files]

I really doubt teachers liked him. Sounds like there were numerous behavioral issues. A caller to FBI who tried to warn authorites claimed NC would throw a chair at teachers if he didn't like what they said.

I personally would be afraid of him. Another reason he shouldn't have been allowed back in class. His behavior was destructive, violent and disruptive. Not condusive to a learning environment. It's still a school not a prision. Other teens should n't be forced to live in fear to attend classes.

 

[enelram]

No one snaps and goes on a mass school shooting. It takes planning to amass the guns, ammo, take the Uber to school with his gun.
That isn't snapping.
It's a long meltdown over several years, in this case at least one year in the planning almost to the exact date he last attended that HS.
What was he doing the past year? Working or just planning this massacre?

I asked this a while back also. Was he working at Dollar Store for the past year? Maybe his mom had run out of schools that would take him. After all the troubles he had in schools, maybe word got out and she ran out of options.

 

[jjenny]

I asked this a while back also. Was he working at Dollar Store for the past year? Maybe his mom had run out of schools that would take him. After all the troubles he had in schools, maybe word got out and she ran out of options.

From the caller who called FBI, appears he was working there, then quit, then started working there again after he moved in with the new family.