GUILTY FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #4 *Arrest*

[Jax49]

Not one student called? Is that correct? Maybe the teachers did.

I don't know. I found a report of ONE call from inside the school but it might not be the only call and it doesn't identify the caller.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...school-shooting-911-calls-20180308-story.html

Only one of the released calls has been identified as coming from within the building, that of someone whispering someone was shooting in the school.

“Someone’s shooting up the school at Stoneman Douglas,” the caller whispered.

Heavy breathing and inaudible whispering followed. The dispatcher repeatedly asked the caller to repeat himself.

“Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School is being shot up,” he said before the line went dead.

These were among the 81 calls pouring into the Broward Sheriff’s Office from 2:22 p.m. to 3:35 p.m. The agency on Thursday afternoon released recordings of 10 of the calls.

bbm

 

[x_files]

I don't know. I found a report of ONE call from inside the school but it might not be the only call and it doesn't identify the caller.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...school-shooting-911-calls-20180308-story.html





bbm

gotcha. It actually makes sense not many calls came from inside the school.
I'd be afraid to talk loudly in case the shooter could hear.
Too bad there's not a 911 text system.

 

[Doghairrules]

And the NRA already filed a lawsuit (link)

Of course they did. Sigh.

 

[Doghairrules]

Doghair, is there part of this link that didn’t attach? TIA

I don’t think so. It came up for me.

 

[Doghairrules]

gotcha. It actually makes sense not many calls came from inside the school.
I'd be afraid to talk loudly in case the shooter could hear.
Too bad there's not a 911 text system.

I was just thinking the same thing. Students were probably texting parents.

 

[kdg411]

Doghair, is there part of this link that didn’t attach? TIA

Radio errors caused confusion for police responding to Parkland shooting

Also, officers with the Broward County Sheriff's Office and the Coral Springs Police Department were unable to communicate with each other when attempts to merge radio traffic from the two agencies into a common radio channel failed, according to the sheriff's office.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/parkland-shooting-law-enforcement-response/index.html

 

[PrairieWind]

gotcha. It actually makes sense not many calls came from inside the school.
I'd be afraid to talk loudly in case the shooter could hear.
Too bad there's not a 911 text system.

We have a 911 text option here.

 

[PrairieWind]

Radio errors caused confusion for police responding to Parkland shooting

Also, officers with the Broward County Sheriff's Office and the Coral Springs Police Department were unable to communicate with each other when attempts to merge radio traffic from the two agencies into a common radio channel failed, according to the sheriff's office.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/parkland-shooting-law-enforcement-response/index.html

That is unbelievable. Since 9/11, law enforcement agencies across the country have received huge grants to fix those exact problems. Where did that money go?

 

[KaaBoom]

Not one student called? Is that correct? Maybe the teachers did.

I didn't hear any calls from teachers. Maybe there were some but they were not on the recording.

 

[CARIIS]

I dont know it seems like the cop they are blaming sounded like he was activily trying to do stuff

Sheriff gave the impression that he was hiding behind a cop car he was calling giving location his story on the tapes is congruent with his statements he said outside first ordered lockdown

there is something not ok here IMO took 11 minutes for any cop to go in so why is this guy being blamed?

The 911 calls were exasperating. They are in cubicles next to each other - one would think with the passage of time everyone in the room would know something bad is going on at the school

endlessly asking the name and the address of the school over time seemed absurd to me

In Pulse after a bit of time had passed the world was insane everyone knew PUlse was under assault -- the calls then changed comforting yes we are aware we have many officers on the scene and they are working the scene

after a short period of time they were not endless where and address

were any of you bothered by the endless asking of the same info?

 

[mpnola]

Reality is, we aren't able to cure mental illness. So what would "not failing him" actually mean? Keeping him locked up in a mental institution?

No. Not at all. While it is not "curable" it is many times "treatable". There are soooooo many things between ignoring that it exists and institutionalizing everyone with mental health issues. I mean, I can say with 100% confidence that a large percentage of my "clients" were able to be a non-threatening, productive member in the community with the combination of medication and hands on social skills/ life skills training. And many times supervision! It isn't glamorous work, but it is effective.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

Reality is, we aren't able to cure mental illness. So what would "not failing him" actually mean? Keeping him locked up in a mental institution?

There are no such things as mental institutions any longer/

They closed em all in like the 70.s and threw everyone out in the streets

there are long term placements like in prison systems

that IMO is the problem there is nowhere to put people I think other areas ( not FL) may have some longer placements - in fl 72 hours is MAX without going to a judge

baker act is not treatment it is detention there is a difference

its like old time drunk tanks in jail where they would toss people to sober up its basically that expect they are waiting for heavy tranquilizers to hit

shortly thereafter they are in a coma and are thrown out there are not enough beds in the facilities that take Baker Acts

A lot of facilities will NOT take Baker Acts --cops have few choices where to even take a Baker act in FL

this is FL ~~

Look at FL go second biggest mass shooting in history ( the night before Pulse a guy murdered the singer in Orlando)/

I had been in both places years ago -- it was quite a 24 hours - trust me

FL Lauderdale airport

This tragedy third worse school shooting in history

 

[CARIIS]

Broward Sheriff dept yesterday, in a tweet called for the release of cctv footage from outside the school, they need a judge to sign off on it.
Gardenista's post proves Sheriff Israel was actually correct in his first public statement regarding deputy failure to enter despite having attended yearly training courses BSO.

It suggests he lied when he stated he thought shooter was outside and not inside, as well..

He reports initially on the football field

 

[KaaBoom]

I dont know it seems like the cop they are blaming sounded like he was activily trying to do stuff

Sheriff gave the impression that he was hiding behind a cop car he was calling giving location his story on the tapes is congruent with his statements he said outside first ordered lockdown

there is something not ok here IMO took 11 minutes for any cop to go in so why is this guy being blamed?

The 911 calls were exasperating. They are in cubicles next to each other - one would think with the passage of time everyone in the room would know something bad is going on at the school

endlessly asking the name and the address of the school over time seemed absurd to me

In Pulse after a bit of time had passed the world was insane everyone knew PUlse was under assault -- the calls then changed comforting yes we are aware we have many officers on the scene and they are working the scene

after a short period of time they were not endless where and address

were any of you bothered by the endless asking of the same info?

I agree, the cop is being made a scapegoat. Based on the court decisions like Warren v. District of Columbia, and Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales I don't see he did anything wrong. The police would have been in their legal right, not to even have responded to the shooting.

 

[CARIIS]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/lapo.12102/full

Public Mass Murderers and Federal Mental Health Background Checks for Firearm Purchases

[FONT=&amp]Our study examines whether increasing the robustness of the mental health background database will likely prevent potential public mass murderers from buying guns. Building on research that shows that serious mental illness contributes little to the risk of interpersonal violence and, further, that few persons with serious mental illness acquire gun-disqualifying mental health records, we examine whether public mass murderers are among the small percentage of those with serious mental illness who [/FONT]do[FONT=&amp] have gun-disqualifying mental health records. Using a large sample of 106 US offenders who used a firearm to commit a public mass murder from 1990 to 2014, we find that half of the offenders had a history of mental illness or mental health treatment but that less than 5% had gun-disqualifying mental health records. Implications of these findings and recommendations for further research are discussed. This article is protected by copyright. All rights reserved.

[/FONT] It is a paywall article, it's just released and the authors are highly respected.

Our brilliant Obama linked folks who were getting disability payments for mental illness


It was one of the first thing Trump undid



Barack Obama's term that banned gun sales to some people collecting Social Security disability benefits based on a mental health condition.

Trump also signed legislation rolling back a rule from President Barack Obama’s term that banned gun sales to some people collecting Social Security disability benefits based on a mental health condition.

Trump then decided cutting money directly to database that is supposed to do the actual background checks (NICS) was a brilliant idea/

He then decided NCIS could use a 12 million dollar reduction in funding /

Shortly thereafter Trump decided to remove felons from the gun background database

Under Trump, the Justice Department also narrowed the definition of a “fugitive from justice.”

Trump made it if one was a felon and stayed in their own state they are welcome to pick up a machine gun or two when the mood struck~~

As a result of this the FBI purged tens of thousands of felons from the NICS database.

Exactly what the correlation was as it relates to felons who dont cross state lines should be removed is more than typical imo == makes no sense whatsoever

Do felons that like to travel become more dangerous?

Trumps guys thinking that it was labeling mental ill as dangerous/

Noone IMO believes that

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gun-background-checks/?utm_term=.95f950f99b2d

 

[bluesneakers]

Our brilliant Obama linked folks who were getting disability payments for mental illness


It was one of the first thing Trump undid



Barack Obama's term that banned gun sales to some people collecting Social Security disability benefits based on a mental health condition.

Trump also signed legislation rolling back a rule from President Barack Obama’s term that banned gun sales to some people collecting Social Security disability benefits based on a mental health condition.

He then proposed cutting money directly to database that is supposed to do the actual background checks (NICS)

Trump then decided to remove felons from the database

Under Trump, the Justice Department also narrowed the definition of a “fugitive from justice.”

FBI purged tens of thousands of people from the NICS.

Trumps guys thinking that it was labeling mental ill as dangerous/

Noone IMO believes that

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gun-background-checks/?utm_term=.95f950f99b2d

Do you think the idea was to keep guns away from people who were at risk of attempting suicide?

 

[CARIIS]

But by withdrawing the not guilty plea, the Broward Public Defender’s Office sends a signal consistent with what they’ve said since the early days of the case.

Two days after Cruz, 19, was accused of shooting dozens at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Public Defender Howard Finkelstein said in interviews that guilt is not an issue in the case. Cruz would plead guilty in exchange for a sentence of life in prison, Finkelstein said.

While Finkelstein’s office had no comment on Thursday’s development, the decision to stand mute allows the defense to proceed without claiming to the public, the victims or the court that Cruz did not commit the crime.

“Pleading not guilty is a matter of course, part of the process of due process,” said defense lawyer Michael Gottlieb, who is not connected to the case. “In a case like this, that’s as sensitive in the community as this case is, pleading not guilty might be seen as offensive. This community is still hurting because of what Nikolas Cruz did.”

Prosecutors have not said whether they will seek the death penalty.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article204180149.html

Times change

In reality with technology in some of these they really needs to be no trial

If one is on video slaughtering people there really is no need to spend millions of bucks on this

I agree it has to be careful we do have rights but if it is on CCTV pleading not guilty is a smack in anyone's face

What exactly does the state need to prove in this instance??

times change most don't really need to hunt to remain alive nor are wild bears roaming all over eating humans

 

[jjenny]

No. Not at all. While it is not "curable" it is many times "treatable". There are soooooo many things between ignoring that it exists and institutionalizing everyone with mental health issues. I mean, I can say with 100% confidence that a large percentage of my "clients" were able to be a non-threatening, productive member in the community with the combination of medication and hands on social skills/ life skills training. And many times supervision! It isn't glamorous work, but it is effective.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

He was being treated while mother was still alive. At various 911 calls his therapist would show up and proclaim that he didn't need to be Baker acted. His reported behavior still was atrocious, so obviously the treatment didn't work.

 

[x_files]

He was being treated while mother was still alive. At various 911 calls his therapist would show up and proclaim that he didn't need to be Baker acted. His reported behavior still was atrocious, so obviously the treatment didn't work.

His therapist FAILED.
Hopefully looking into a new line of work. The red flags were too numerous to ignore.

 

[CARIIS]

He was being treated while mother was still alive. At various 911 calls his therapist would show up and proclaim that he didn't need to be Baker acted. His reported behavior still was atrocious, so obviously the treatment didn't work.

It is not treatment. What happens is when cops arrive they ask are you suicidal? They answer no. They ask are you going hurt others? They so no

By law in Fl they cant do anything.

A clinician would be able to access in a more nuanced manner,

The law in FL has nothing to do with treatment-- all it is about is someone going to kill themselves or others very soon.

The I am going to be a school shooter is a nothing. There is no imminent threat to anyone -- that is the law.

If they answered the question like :yes tomorrow around 846 I am going to take my machine gun to XXXX and kill as many people as I can -- Baker Act.

24 hours later Are you going to shoot at your school "No:

Discharge time .

imminent imminent imminent imminent imminent

poses a real and present threat



that is all the Baker Act is

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0394/0394.html

[FONT=&amp]Designation of receiving and treatment facilities and receiving systems. -- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unless designated by the department, facilities are not [/FONT][FONT=&amp]permitted [/FONT][FONT=&amp]to hold or [/FONT]treat[FONT=&amp] involuntary patients

[/FONT]Most don't want to deal with it. It is dangerous [FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]a lot of places wont take a Baker Act -- it is not like medical in FL . A lot of it comes off of the mentally ill being used by facilities to hold people for ages so they could nail whoever was paying.