FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

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jjenny

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He had on a red jacket, and some people have also reported seeing him in a white shirt.

There is not a single person that claimed Zimmerman was wearing white shirt. There is one 911 caller that says the person on top wearing white (but she doesn't say it was Zimmerman). And in fact in a dark it's more likely to mistake gray for white than red for white.
 

m00c0w

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It doesn't imply that. One is free to infer it, but it's not the only possible or even the only probable case.

There's too much missing info to determine the vectors of the two bodies at all points in time during the period in question.
You are correct. I was imprecise with my language. I meant that one could infer that Martin found Zimmerman.
 

vlpate

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No reason not to believe Trayvon walked towards Zimmerman because Zimmerman was on his path to home.

He walked toward him and then started running. Why? Zimmerman is not a scary looking person, was Trayvon, profiling Zimmerman? Scary hispanic dude?

Can't have it both ways, some say he ran because Zimmerman was following him, now, TM was coming toward Zimmerman because Zimmerman was in his path home.

:waitasec: A or B?
 

Ada

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I got to tell y'all what I saw when I was out running errands, today. Warm, muggy day, and I saw car after car of teens wearing hoods up. It was crazy and heart warming. I wished I had my own sweatshirt with a hood on, but, as I said, it was warm and muggy. No way they just happened to be wearing these warm cloths on a day like this. I'm so proud of our youth :)
 

Inabsentia

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Songline, I very clearly stated that those were my own assessments, repeatedly.

Trayvon Martin was suspended from school, never expelled as you keep claiming. Numerous links have been provided to indicate that he was suspended for non-violent violations of policy. If I provide those links again can we move on from your claims that he was expelled, and your seeming need to find something sinister in his suspension? I will if you will.
 

LolaMoon08

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He walked toward him and then started running. Why? Zimmerman is not a scary looking person, was Trayvon, profiling Zimmerman? Scary hispanic dude?

Can't have it both ways, some say he ran because Zimmerman was following him, now, TM was coming toward Zimmerman because Zimmerman was in his path home.

:waitasec: A or B?

I'm sorry, but any man in a car, just sitting there, watching me, would be scary for me? Do we know if Zimmerman was following in his car? We see where his car was stopped, but did Tray start to run when Zimmerman's car started following him?

ETA: I will be the first person to admit, I do profile men more than women. Any man! I don't care what he looked like. That Craiglist killer sure looked like an unassuming character?
 

songline

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Songline, I very clearly stated that those were my own assessments, repeatedly.

Trayvon Martin was suspended from school, never expelled as you keep claiming. Numerous links have been provided to indicate that he was suspended for non-violent violations of policy. If I provide those links again can we move on from your claims that he was expelled, and your seeming need to find something sinister in his suspension? I will if you will.
Expelled is correct but non the les I do not have one friend including myself who were expelled for one day. sorry I used the worng word, incidentally in my mind they both mean that it is a punishment, not a reward.
<modsnip> It is not like a question or a theory.
 

Dr.Fessel

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Well, if Martin was shot in the chest it would make sense his hands were underneath him because he was holding where he got shot...

I've already explained the possible lack of blood a few pages back. Relatively, 9mm is not a "pretty big slug", either. And I'm not sure why he'd have blood on his hands.

JMO

9mm is a big bullet and they make a big exit wound. It is bigger then all the bellow bullets except for the 50cal.

.50 BMG Rimless and Bottleneck 5.45 in / 138 mm Machine guns and sniper rifles 0.51 in / 12.95 mm

.308 Winchester Rimless and bottleneck 2.800 in / 71.1 mm Police sharp shooting and short action rifles 0.308 in / 7.8 mm

3 7.62 x 39 mm Rimless 2.205 in / 56.00 mm Common rifles 0.311 in / 7.89 m

4 5.56 x 45mm NATO Rimless and bottleneck 2.260 in / 57.40 mm M16 assault rifles 0.224 in / 5.7 mm

.22 LR Rim fire and straight 0.985 in / 25.0 mm Pistols and Revolvers 0.222 in / 5.6 mm
 

Rougelatete

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and everything else is just spinning the tale to justify it. There's no Pretend bomber or pretend rape here-there's a real actual dead boy killed by GZ. Not the same at all. For me, when you shoot and kill a child walking home with candy the burden is on you all the way.

It doesn't even need to be just your opinion, Boytwnmom. It is built into the law that GZ has the burden of proof to demonstrate that the killing was justified. Florida Statute 776.012 reads that one may use deadly force only if he "reasonably believes" it is necessary to prevent great bodily harm or a forcible felony. As of yet, we have no evidence that GZ "reasonably believed" his life to be in danger to the point that he had to shoot an unarmed person (whom he had chased) in the heart. MOO.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html
 

momshrink

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I hope that I am wrong about what I think the autopsy information holds. But, every time I read about how Trayvon was found laying, shot in the back is the only thing that comes to mind. I think they need to release the autopsy ASAP even if withholding other information. I just have a very bad feeling about this. Again, I hope I am wrong. That would just be that much more awful.

IMO the autopsy will be the game changer and will reveal GZ's lies. I certainly hope so since Trayvon cannot speak to tell us what happened.
JMO
 

m00c0w

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and everything else is just spinning the tale to justify it. There's no Pretend bomber or pretend rape here-there's a real actual dead boy killed by GZ. Not the same at all. For me, when you shoot and kill a child walking home with candy the burden is on you all the way.
Pretend bomber?

You're not aware that everyone assumed Richard Jewell was responsible for killing two people and injuring 111 because that's how the media portrayed the case? Eric Rudolph certainly was not a pretend bomber, and another man's life was ruined for it.

The key takeaway is that the media can ruin lives based on how they're portraying things. We realistically know very little about the moments leading up to the shooting, yet there's a veritable lynch mob out for Zimmerman. Let's say he's acquitted of all charges and all of the evidence in the world backs his story up; do you think he's going to be able to avoid the repercussions of the media's persecution and subsequent assumption of guilt expressed by most of the general public?
 

LambChop

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Isn't the reason we post on the forum to discuss why there is a victim? To get a better idea of what could have happened? We really can't get any testimony from TM he is dead. All we have is GZ who admittedly has a history to blaming others (which could be true, we don't know) two sides to every story. Problem is we're not getting TM's side other than from his location when he was shot, which shows he was headed towards the back (GZ reported this himself) and where his condo is. The only information for TM is coming from his gf who was on the phone at the time and indicates TM was trying to get away from GZ.

I seriously doubt that if GZ fired his gun while TM was on top of him and "slid out" from underneath TM's body they would have found his arms under his body with one hand within the other as described by an eye witness. The same witness said GZ never attempted to resitate TM but straddled him and put his hands on his back. TM was no longer a threat so why would he not try to save his life?

These are the issues we need to talk about. GZ is still alive and only he can tell us what happened. He's under no obligation to do so but if this were me and I was innocent I'd be on GMA by now explaining what happened.

Myself I do not think he intended to ever kill TM in cold blood. But something went terribly wrong. His response when LE got to the scene was "I shot someone". That's it. Not he was choking me and I had to shoot him. So when you look at some of the statements by witnesses and some of the reports something just is not right.

At this point GZ has nothing to lose by being honest. If LE believes GZ story it would be a closed case by now...justifiable homocide, but they will not release information because it is not closed. It's still an open investigation which tells me what they thought happened on the night of February 26 is still in question.

If I were Trayvon's parents I'd be asking for the ME to expedite that report or request a second autopsy be done. Let's see how fast they would get that first report. jmo
 

LolaMoon08

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I wish we could get a picture of Zimmerman's truck? I think it would be interesting to see what, if any, tint he had on the windows? I'm only assuming he would have his windows up if it were sprinkling?
 

ejw009

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He walked toward him and then started running. Why? Zimmerman is not a scary looking person, was Trayvon, profiling Zimmerman? Scary hispanic dude?
Is it still profiling if you're basing your judgement on recently observed behavior?

Can't have it both ways, some say he ran because Zimmerman was following him, now, TM was coming toward Zimmerman because Zimmerman was in his path home.
:waitasec: A or B?
We can't really say that it's impossible or even unlikely that Martin did not proceed directly and constantly toward where he was staying.
It's not hard to imagine a scenario where someone who is fleeing thinks to double back or to stop and hide instead of proceeding along the expected route.
There's nothing I know of which rules out that possibility. As such, I don't think we can proceed along the line of reasoning that starts with that kind of behavior being necessarily excluded.

Perhaps Martin ran out of sight and then hid/waited.
Zimmerman anticipated where Martin's last known trajectory would end up and proceeded directly to that intercept point.
Z would have failed to find M because M did not follow that trajectory--M stopped and waited, perhaps even doubled back and found that the man watching him was no longer there where he once was.
Z starts back toward his vehicle along the path he anticipated M would take.
M starts back toward the house where he is staying along the path A thought M would take.
Voila, they meet in the middle, M ran away and yet was met by Z in front of him.

I have no idea what happened, but since we don't know, let's be slow to make assumptions based on ruling out things that haven't been sufficiently ruled out.
imho
 

HiHater

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Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst.

You cannot say what you would do if a car were following you; if this has happened to you, then by all means say what you did.

People have everything in a situation all worked out, until they are actually in that situation.
 

hannahsnana

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Does this imply that you're comfortable with a clearly biased trial by media? I'm not sure that most people that are seen as defending Zimmerman are actually defending Zimmerman. They're defending the idea of impartiality until conviction by a jury of his peers. The public at large does not have nearly all of the information that is available. To speculate is one thing, but to assume guilt and work from that angle is an entirely different notion.

You'd think we'd have learned after Richard Jewell and the Duke Lacrosse team that this is a bad thing.

The cases you cited are not good examples; no deaths.
 

Adrienne37

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Isn't the reason we post on the forum to discuss why there is a victim? To get a better idea of what could have happened? We really can't get any testimony from TM he is dead. All we have is GZ who admittedly has a history to blaming others (which could be true, we don't know) two sides to every story. Problem is we're not getting TM's side other than from his location when he was shot, which shows he was headed towards the back (GZ reported this himself) and where his condo is. The only information for TM is coming from his gf who was on the phone at the time and indicates TM was trying to get away from GZ.

I seriously doubt that if GZ fired his gun while TM was on top of him and "slid out" from underneath TM's body they would have found his arms under his body with one hand within the other as described by an eye witness. The same witness said GZ never attempted to resitate TM but straddled him and put his hands on his back. TM was no longer a threat so why would he not try to save his life?

These are the issues we need to talk about. GZ is still alive and only he can tell us what happened. He's under no obligation to do so but if this were me and I was innocent I'd be on GMA by now explaining what happened.

Myself I do not think he intended to ever kill TM in cold blood. But something went terribly wrong. His response when LE got to the scene was "I shot someone". That's it. Not he was choking me and I had to shoot him. So when you look at some of the statements by witnesses and some of the reports something just is not right.

At this point GZ has nothing to lose by being honest. If LE believes GZ story it would be a closed case by now...justifiable homocide, but they will not release information because it is not closed. It's still an open investigation which tells me what they thought happened on the night of February 26 is still in question.

If I were Trayvon's parents I'd be asking for the ME to expedite that report or request a second autopsy be done. Let's see how fast they would get that first report. jmo

I agree with your post LambChop but I am still going to maintain that the moment he stepped out of his vehicle with his loaded weapon, he was going to make darn sure that this a$$hole wasn't going to get a way. If he was going to attempt to find out why and what Trayvon was doing, he had absolutely no reason whatsoever to take that gun with him. I am of the same opinion that LolaMoon had earlier today after studying the 47+ pages of 911 calls made that something was wrong with Zimmerman. I'm really quite surprised there hasn't been another person brutally murdered by him previous to this and I have a feeling if he is not charged for his crime then there will likely be another victim at some point. This is a very dangerous man who needed to be off the streets 1 month ago.


~jmo~
 

Ada

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Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst.

You cannot say what you would do if a car were following you; if this has happened to you, then by all means say what you did.

People have everything in a situation all worked out, until they are actually in that situation.

When I was a teen, a girl friend and I were walking down a street, at night, and a van of men started following us. What we did was walk up to the nearest house and stand on their porch. The van drove away.

But, then, we weren't walking or porch standing, while black.
 

Adrienne37

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FYI - don't forget Dateline NBC will air their program at 7 p.m. tonight. (ET)
 
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